Phil O'Keefe Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Pretty funny video: [video=youtube;uvNLJHlC8gQ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted May 27, 2011 Moderators Share Posted May 27, 2011 Yeah! It's guaranteed! I'm gonna hit my dad up for the 20k. He said he'd pay for college! Cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Nick Posted June 5, 2011 Members Share Posted June 5, 2011 Thanks for posting that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted June 6, 2011 Author Share Posted June 6, 2011 Glad you liked it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MrJoshua Posted June 6, 2011 Members Share Posted June 6, 2011 I spent a few years at UNA in Muscle Shoals in their commercial music program. It did a good job of explaining the basics, but all things considered I'm glad I went back to UAH and got an electrical engineering degree instead. I do more music stuff now than I ever did when I was a music major, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted June 7, 2011 Author Share Posted June 7, 2011 I do more music stuff now than I ever did when I was a music major, lol. It's funny how that works out. I knew at a fairly young age that I wasn't good enough, and probably never would be good enough to make it as a session musician the way guys like Dean Parks or Tommy Tedesco did it, but as an engineer / producer, I've wound up playing on lots of stuff - because I could squeak by on the parts and I was available and already "there" - much more so than I probably ever would have if I was actively trying to be a session musician. Look, I'm not anti-school, but let's face it: there are a gripload of schools out there - churning out far more grads than the industry can utilize, and most of those schools are selling a dream that is not only out of date, but pretty much dead. That industry, and that paradigm - the big studios, funded and supported by big-budget major label album projects, is almost as close to death in many ways as the major labels themselves. It's a whole new world, and you're NOT going to drop $20-40k, pay only passing attention to what's going on in your classes, graduate, get a job three months after finishing school at the local swank studio (or one in LA / Nashville / NYC / London / Tokyo etc.), and then be partying with rock and rap stars and mixing hit records six months after that. Many of those schools would like for kids to believe that - just like the major labels want dumb young bands to think they'll automatically be rich and famous if they get signed to a major label, and that the label has their best interests in mind. It feeds their system. No dream = no bodies in the classrooms. No bodies = no tuition. No tuition = no school. Yes, many schools offer a real service - they will indeed teach you about recording - but they don't tell you that the likelihood of you making a living as a recording engineer is pretty slim. I'm not saying that it's impossible to make a decent living as a recording engineer, but it's hard. VERY hard - especially today. I don't want to discourage the truly talented and gifted-the folks who are born to record music and nothing else, but they are not likely to be dissuaded anyway, regardless of what I, or anyone else says. Poor kids. For them, and ONLY for them, my advice is to have a plan, be persistent, and be ready to work your butt off. Ask 10 engineers how they got to where they are, and you'll probably get at least several different stories. Today more than ever, you have to find your own path. Don't follow what I do, or what anyone else does. Make a plan for today; and one that works for you. Make sure it's well thought out, and benefits from good advice and experienced counsel. It may very well involve school via a local university or community college - more and more of them offer much more reasonably priced audio courses now, and they're usually going to teach you what you need to know to get started; not "everything" - NO school teaches you everything, so don't get out of school and think you "know stuff" - you really know very little at that point... Or, you may take a more autodidactic approach to learning - there have been many self-taught engineers. Some people can learn on their own, although the danger there is in isolation and re-inventing the wheel all the time. The Internet does make it easier now to learn than it ever has been before, but you still have to be able to discern the wheat from the chaff - not everything you read online is reliable, factual and accurate. And then there's always the apprentice approach, which is the traditional, old school, time honored way engineers used to be brought into the field. Some old timer took a kid under their wing as an intern / assistant, and over a period of months and years, the kid observed, asked questions (NOT while in sessions!) and was gradually trained and given more and more responsibility until s/he was ready to handle any session that walked through the door on their own. Those sorts of situations are getting harder and harder to find. Everyone knows about that avenue, and I literally get calls from kids who want to intern or assist every week. And frankly, someone would have to really impress me to get me to take them on in that capacity, and the vast majority of kids that call or email me aren't even close to being in the running. They don't want it badly enough, or don't have the personality, or the people skills, or the communication skills, or the "ears", or the musicality... you'd better bring your A Game if you want to succeed, because there are literally hundreds of people vying for practically every position that opens up. Your career path may involve a recording school. There are some good ones out there - "good" in that they teach you the basics and give you a foundation... but YOU have to be willing to learn. YOU have to "put in" your hours, and work hard. If you've never recorded a single thing in your life, then don't waste your money on recording school. If you're not already inquisitive enough and interested enough to where you're experimenting with it and trying to learn this stuff on your own, then you don't have sufficient interest to make that commitment yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerry Rio Posted June 14, 2011 Members Share Posted June 14, 2011 Greetings, I am the one who created the Institute for Delusional Audio, I just wanted to say thanks for re posting it and am glad that you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members geek_usa Posted September 1, 2011 Members Share Posted September 1, 2011 All of my "training" has been hands on and reading books by notable authors. I wanted to go to Recording School (of ohio) when I first graduated HS, but I heard the same thing back then (2005) that it was a wasted effort, and even when I tried interning at a local hip-hop studio (not my bag, but it was an intern) the lady that ran the studio told me to pack it up and find a different career field...I just thought she was being negative, but it was at that point when I realized that I would utilize my bedroom at home to record local acts and do audio transfers... without schooling I made about $200 in the first year that I tried this, and I realized that if I can just cater to those people who know little to nothing about recording and just want to get something on a CD, that's my target market. I made a big mistake however when a Gospel band wanted to come record an entire 13 track album, wanted it done within a month...I said it would be hard to accomplish and also quoted them a high amount (but very low comparative to local studios), they said they didn't want to pay $1k for an album, I tried to work with them and they disappeared. Bummer! I could have done it for half that and still be $500 richer than I would have been... moral of the story, if you can hook a talent or a band in your own studio, first make sure you have the chops, but second - be extremely competitive. Think about what YOU would pay for you. How good are you? Be honest. What's your skill level? You certainly won't knock it out of the ballpark. Take a sober estimate of what you're worth as an engineer and give your talent a 10% discount beyond that. Do package deals. Offer duplication at cost even if you have to go through a third party. Your talent will thank you, and word will spread to his or her musician friends. You'll get calls and you'll be making more money in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MrJoshua Posted September 2, 2011 Members Share Posted September 2, 2011 They wanted to record an entire 13-song album, done within a month, and didn't want to pay $1000 for it? Yeah, I think I would have passed on that one. It's one thing to be competitive, but that's just unrealistic. Some of the advice you're giving I disagree with. If you want to make a living doing recording you have to approach it as a business. That means taking an honest appraisal of your skills and equipment (including studio space, whether that's a dedicated building or your living room), figuring out how much the product you offer is worth and billing accordingly. If you're offering recording services to make a 13-song CD for under $1000 in a month I hope you're talking about a VERY stripped-down service on the weekends and maybe a couple of evenings, with a couple of SM-57s and a generic interface into Garage Band or Reaper or something. Otherwise that's just a good way to go broke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members geek_usa Posted September 2, 2011 Members Share Posted September 2, 2011 They wanted to record an entire 13-song album, done within a month, and didn't want to pay $1000 for it?Yeah, I think I would have passed on that one. It's one thing to be competitive, but that's just unrealistic.Some of the advice you're giving I disagree with. If you want to make a living doing recording you have to approach it as a business. That means taking an honest appraisal of your skills and equipment (including studio space, whether that's a dedicated building or your living room), figuring out how much the product you offer is worth and billing accordingly. If you're offering recording services to make a 13-song CD for under $1000 in a month I hope you're talking about a VERY stripped-down service on the weekends and maybe a couple of evenings, with a couple of SM-57s and a generic interface into Garage Band or Reaper or something. Otherwise that's just a good way to go broke. As a private recording studio, I have a full-time job on the side, so the talent has to work around what works for me. Recording is not my main moneymaker, so I can't jeopardize the bread on the table for a one-time shot at a couple hundred bucks. It's supplemental income for me, and there's really no reason that I would go broke over it. If I were doing this full-time, I could see going broke by offering lower prices than what pays my bills. I guess what I'm saying is, by taking a sober estimate of what your capabilities really are, and asking yourself if you were someone else that came to you for services, how much would you be willing to pay? How top notch is your recording studio? Imagine the person came to a forum like this and they were told what to expect...would they get it from you? My studio is run pretty bare bones, I have a Presonus Firestudio Project, a couple mid-range large condenser microphones, some pencil condensers, and about 7 or 8 dynamic microphones from various large name brands (including those SM57s). I mix with Cubase LE 4, Master with Izotope Ozone 4, and edit files microscopically with Cool Edit Pro 2.0. I don't have a control room per se, just a couple of Tannoys and an Alesis RA-100. I run pretty slim here but I've recorded a few acts that have loved me and come back for second and third and fourth sessions. I realize my target market. Sometimes I get screamo bands or 3-piece rock outfits that will seriously consider my services by word of mouth, but instead pass me up and decide to pay 3x what I am offering because my studio doesn't have Pro Tools. I can't help that. I have what I have and I use my instruments accordingly. If I'm not offering what they want, there's no reason I should try to appease one talent and try to do something I'm not familiar with, as there's a chance I could screw it up, and that news spreads faster than good news. On average, I'll get 3 or 4 talents a year if it's a fruitful year, sometimes I go a year or even two before someone will contact me for services. I live in a small city of 21,000 people so it's not too out of the ordinary. I do a lot of audio and video transfers from VHS > DVD, Tape > CD, Cell Phone > CD...I make about $20 per item on those. It's nothing extraordinary but it helps fill my gas tank. Shrug... everybody does it differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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