Members Mr.Mow Posted January 21, 2007 Members Share Posted January 21, 2007 Pfft and in Australia we can probably expect it in 2008 for $600... Still waiting on the Fender B-(Bass)Dec.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ThomasD Posted January 21, 2007 Members Share Posted January 21, 2007 The biggest differences between any amps are the tone stacks, that's what makes a Vox sound like a Vox (regardless of whether is uses EL84, EL34, or SS power amps), a Fender like a Fender (regardless of 6V6, 6L6, or SS), etc.Without seeing the schematic, I'm not sure what the difference will be. And I've only been able to hear the Champ 600 in video clips. But it should be a midrange-heavy more Tweed-like tone, in line with the Pro Jr. and Blues Jr., there won't be any clean, shimmery BF/SF Champ tone coming from that amp. Sounds about right. Neither has a stock tone control right?. So the tone of the gain stage is gonna boil down to the value of the tone cap/resistor combo and the input impedance - pretty minor in single or two stage pre-amp. Otherwise it sounds like the Champion has the classic hi-lo input V1 stage so it may be a little more fendery - especially on the low input. A dimed el84 does sound different from a dimed 6V6. To my ears an el84 has more emphasis on the high midrange while the 6V6 has a bit more bass richness. But more important is the speaker - that can alter tone significantly. thankfully its also one of the most easily altered features. Heck, the RC values and addition of a tone pot, if desired, are also not real difficult to fix. It will be interesting to see which one has better out-of-the box iron. I've heard multiple reports that the Valve jr. sounds fantastic with a tranny upgrade, but having to lay out an additional $35.00+ has always seemed to detract from the bargain price of the stock head. The six inch Champion speaker may be historically correct but it strikes me as a mistake. An eight or ten would have been more useful to more people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fuzztone Posted January 21, 2007 Author Members Share Posted January 21, 2007 I'm going to get one to go with the MM I ordered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr.Mow Posted January 21, 2007 Members Share Posted January 21, 2007 I'm going to get one to go with the MM I ordered Dude, 59 called.. they want their gear back! I LOOOOOOVE the box the MM comes in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Verne Andru Posted January 22, 2007 Members Share Posted January 22, 2007 i'd rather have one of these +1 - on paper that one looks like the one to beat. Got the features and price-point nailed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members strangedogs Posted January 22, 2007 Members Share Posted January 22, 2007 I want one... I also want a Valve Junior - Maybe Fender will make a "head" version too and then a cool little bottom for it (1 X 12 or 2 X 12) - a Head Version would be sweet. I have an assortment of small amps including 2 "60's" VINTAGE amps (one is my avatar) 2 small Solid State amps (including a rare old Roland DAC-15XD amp from the early 80's) but this and an Epi Junior are my next purchases! My giggin' days are over and I can crank my 5-watter wide-open and still not drive the wife mad - the others are 15-watt and even they're not too loud. I usually use a tubescreamer on my 15-watt Ace Tone and use the level knob as my attenuator with the amp turned all the way up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Joe Bones Posted January 22, 2007 Members Share Posted January 22, 2007 $200 for a mass produced, probably PCB 5 watt tube amp, probably made in Mexico, or (gulp!) China, with a 6" speaker? Why so much? Retro styling? Fender nameplate? Man, I don't HAVE to hear it to be skeptical. Unless Fender has managed the all time sound breakthrough, it's VERY difficult to imagine it's worth $200. Considering you've got the Epi's, the Crates, the Peavey's, and the Pignose's out there? Methinks they must have one hell of a lot of confidence in their marketing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Verne Andru Posted January 22, 2007 Members Share Posted January 22, 2007 $200 for a mass produced, probably PCB 5 watt tube amp, probably made in Mexico, or (gulp!) China, with a 6" speaker?Why so much? Retro styling? Fender nameplate?Man, I don't HAVE to hear it to be skeptical. Unless Fender has managed the all time sound breakthrough, it's VERY difficult to imagine it's worth $200.Considering you've got the Epi's, the Crates, the Peavey's, and the Pignose's out there?Methinks they must have one hell of a lot of confidence in their marketing. +1. I think this falls into a marketing "no mans land". The really budget [read: cheap] end of the market with go for the EVJ's - you just get more for less and you can shoe-horn a 10" speaker in the cab [i've seen pics] if you really want to. The "no longer gigging, looking for good low-watt tone and home recording" end of the market will pay a few more bucks for a Windsor combo or equiv. I can't see the "cute as a toaster" angle appealing to anyone other than some stay-at-home-mom's that, unless I've missed something, have never been a large market in themselves, nor big purchase influencer's. I think Fender needs a major shake-down cause if this is the best the can do they're heading for serious trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dcindc Posted January 22, 2007 Members Share Posted January 22, 2007 It is surely all of those construction details above. It ain't gonna be a birch ply, hand wired, point to point. I'm not surprised by the price. It is exactly what I would expect out of Fender. Gibson's 5 watter is ~$500 remember? So I'm not mad at Fender, but the Epi Jr is still killing this thing. There's no way the Champ has a bigger or louder clean tone with a 6" speaker, (which is what the VJr is lacking) so it's sure to go for a creamy sound. regarding "Cheap". I'm all about price, but if the Vjr combo was $200 it would still be worth it, and the Fender Chump would not. pfffft ackkkkkkkkk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members angus_old Posted January 22, 2007 Members Share Posted January 22, 2007 I want one... I also want a Valve Junior - Maybe Fender will make a "head" version too and then a cool little bottom for it (1 X 12 or 2 X 12) - a Head Version would be sweet. Fender should do a vibrochamp head with blackface or sf bandmaster cosmetics for $300 + 200 for a 1x12 cab. of course, i also want it p2p, MIM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cloudsnstuff00 Posted January 22, 2007 Members Share Posted January 22, 2007 they should have just done 8 inch. Also they should make a head version When will it be out? I want to try it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members utterhack Posted January 22, 2007 Members Share Posted January 22, 2007 I'm going to get one to go with the MM I ordered :love: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alchemist Posted January 22, 2007 Members Share Posted January 22, 2007 I think I'm gonna buy one of these to keep me company when I move into a small apartment for 4 months come mid april. I got rid of my mid sized amp(s), and was looking towards just playing through headphones, but if this thing has a sweet tone at low volume, I think it may suit my needs just fine.... God knows I cant take my Twin or my halfstack with me:cry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Verne Andru Posted January 22, 2007 Members Share Posted January 22, 2007 I think I'm gonna buy one of these to keep me company when I move into a small apartment for 4 months come mid april. I got rid of my mid sized amp(s), and was looking towards just playing through headphones, but if this thing has a sweet tone at low volume, I think it may suit my needs just fine.... God knows I cant take my Twin or my halfstack with me:cry: But you see, this is exactly where Fender dropped the ball. This is still 5 watts with no attenuator/master volume. If you want tube distortion, you have to crank it wide open and my guess is it'll be way to loud for apartments. They didn't even bother with a headphone jack, which is #1 feature for apartment dwellers. At least with the Peavey Windsor Combo you've got a master volume, plus, plus, plus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alchemist Posted January 22, 2007 Members Share Posted January 22, 2007 But you see, this is exactly where Fender dropped the ball. This is still 5 watts with no attenuator/master volume. If you want tube distortion, you have to crank it wide open and my guess is it'll be way to loud for apartments. They didn't even bother with a headphone jack, which is #1 feature for apartment dwellers. At least with the Peavey Windsor Combo you've got a master volume, plus, plus, plus. Not so concerned with that, I like the clean that you can only get through a nice tube amp. Another thing to consider, while yes, this is 5 watts, its a small cabinet, and a small speaker, so the sound will just not spread and respond as efficiently as through a big cab..... So while yes, it is loud, its certainly much more manageable then the 2*12 of my twin, or my 4*12 closeback halfstack, both of which are fender, yes I love fender amps:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members utterhack Posted January 22, 2007 Members Share Posted January 22, 2007 Dear marketing geniuses: fender already makes an assload of $100-dollar SS amps that sell just fine. Why shouldn't they price the good-lookin' toob amp as an appropriate upgrade? These things are going to expose a bunch of folks who don't know that anything exists that you can't buy at GC to the grooviness of tube amplification for the guitar. Which is cool. Verne, I agree with you in principle on the Windsor, but we'll have to wait until they're out to see. In the meantime, I don't see anything here but wins for guitar players and beginning guitar players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phishmonkey Posted January 22, 2007 Members Share Posted January 22, 2007 I'm going to get one to go with the MM I ordered Ewww Melody makers are sub epiphone in quality. I played one, and it was easily the {censored}tiest gibson style guitar I've ever played. Maybe your lucky and you got a good one. Back to the topic, I not very hopeful for this amp. Tubes don't always equal good tone, especially not with a 6" speaker. The windsor looks promising though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alchemist Posted January 22, 2007 Members Share Posted January 22, 2007 Dear marketing geniuses: fender already makes an assload of $100-dollar SS amps that sell just fine. Why shouldn't they price the good-lookin' toob amp as an appropriate upgrade? Because God forbid people have to spend the same amount on a fender tube amp as they would on your average boutique pedal:eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mattoverb Posted January 22, 2007 Members Share Posted January 22, 2007 Dear marketing geniuses: fender already makes an assload of $100-dollar SS amps that sell just fine. Why shouldn't they price the good-lookin' toob amp as an appropriate upgrade?These things are going to expose a bunch of folks who don't know that anything exists that you can't buy at GC to the grooviness of tube amplification for the guitar. Which is cool.Verne, I agree with you in principle on the Windsor, but we'll have to wait until they're out to see. In the meantime, I don't see anything here but wins for guitar players and beginning guitar players. Now here's a guy that gets it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alchemist Posted January 22, 2007 Members Share Posted January 22, 2007 Ewww Melody makers are sub epiphone in quality. I played one, and it was easily the {censored}tiest gibson style guitar I've ever played. Maybe your lucky and you got a good one. I've played plenty that were awesome after a good setup:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members voneville Posted January 22, 2007 Members Share Posted January 22, 2007 Heck, it's worth it for looks alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members angus_old Posted January 22, 2007 Members Share Posted January 22, 2007 maybe they are trying to make a new beginner tube amp market; that was the point of the original champ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Joe Bones Posted January 22, 2007 Members Share Posted January 22, 2007 maybe they are trying to make a new beginner tube amp market; that was the point of the original champ Not really true. When the original Champ came out, all there were were tube amps. The original champ was just a small beginner's amp. It wasn't as if they were attempting to create a new "tube amp market." Tube amps were all they had at the time. Now, as far as beginner amps go, if someone would care to inform me as to WHY this particular amp should cost far more than, say, a Fender Frontman, I'm all ears. I think I know the answer, and it isn't because these Champ 600's cost more to build than a Frontman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dcindc Posted January 22, 2007 Members Share Posted January 22, 2007 Oh but they do. Transistors and opamps in SS amps are a dime. Tubes and extra transformers are much more than a dollar. I'm sure it costs more than a Frontman to build. But I wouldn't buy a Frontman with a 6" speaker either. It's a nostalgaic, almost gimmicy amp. I don't have a problem with that. It, like everything else, is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Joe Bones Posted January 22, 2007 Members Share Posted January 22, 2007 Oh but they do. Transistors and opamps in SS amps are a dime. Tubes and extra transformers are much more than a dollar. I'm sure it costs more than a Frontman to build. But I wouldn't buy a Frontman with a 6" speaker either. It's a nostalgaic, almost gimmicy amp. I don't have a problem with that. It, like everything else, is what it is. Thanks for the info. I'm certainly no expert, although I had imagined that a tube and a socket does probably cost a bit more than a transistor, but the rest of this amp looks to be cheaper than the Frontman in the sense that it has less materials, fewer switches, knobs, and features, etc, which would in some amount, offset the cost of a couple of tubes. I mean, at $199, they are asking what, $70 more than a Frontman? Are they indeed THAT much more expensive to build? I'm asking seriously here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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