Members Ed A. Posted October 29, 2005 Author Members Share Posted October 29, 2005 Originally posted by TimOBrien Has anyone NOT known this since the '60s?? :rolleyes: File under "OBVIOUS" Yeah, come to think of it, I guess it was obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MorePaul Posted October 29, 2005 Members Share Posted October 29, 2005 It definitely has cemented the fencing stereotype great friggin sport too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Counterpoint Posted October 29, 2005 Members Share Posted October 29, 2005 Originally posted by Anderton What I meant was why would anyone care that he was gay? What he wants to do with his body should be his own business. If he felt shame about it and coming out relieves that, fine. But I think the people who should feel shame are the ones who judge others based on their sexual orientation.I mean, is some homophobic Star Trek fan now going to say "I don't like Star Trek after all because Sulu is gay?" That would be pretty weird, I think. Maybe the announcement has some significance to others who are struggling with sexual identity and the expectations of family and associates. It certainly has significance to Mr. Takei, or he wouldn't have bothered to make the announcement. If you announce that you like to collect stamps, that may not have any meaning except to others who share your love of philately. That doesn't mean that you should never mention your stamp collection in public. Just a hunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tunanator Posted October 29, 2005 Members Share Posted October 29, 2005 Cool for George to do. Helpful to many, I'd think.I don't think Walter becoming Wendy decreased anyone's respect either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Super 8 Posted October 30, 2005 Members Share Posted October 30, 2005 Sulu!!!????Gosh, and all this time I was thinking it was the Doctor who was gay! Originally posted by Jeff da Weasel You know, I just realized that a few morons I know stopped liking the band Judas Priest after Rob Halford came out as gay, and I've heard stories of people who stopped listening to Queen after finding out Freddie was gay. Actually, I stopped liking David Bowie when I found out he was straight!jus kid'n. I love Bowie... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted October 30, 2005 Members Share Posted October 30, 2005 Originally posted by Jeff da Weasel You know, I just realized that a few morons I know stopped liking the band Judas Priest after Rob Halford came out as gay, and I've heard stories of people who stopped listening to Queen after finding out Freddie was gay. Anybody who'd ever seen Freddie and didn't already know he was gay is a moron, anyhow! But yeah, people like that are pathetic.And I do think B-Lips made some great points about why it can be good for respected celebs to come out. It's definitely too bad anybody cares, but so long as people do, I think the effect is mostly positive. And idiots who do stuff like burn Judas Priest records will be seen for what they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members amplayer Posted October 30, 2005 Members Share Posted October 30, 2005 I don't care what the sexual orientation of the celebs is, and I fail to see why I should be glad to be made aware of it. The idea that it's somehow good for kids may be politically correct, but it's also preposterous. What about the billions of kids who haven't even reached puberty and hear of this and have to try to understand what it means? For those of you who say we SHOULD be teaching young children about homo and heterosexuality, I vehemently disagree. That deprives children of the innocence that is childhood. I wish the celebs would just keep their mouths shut about their sexual orientation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr. Donovan Posted October 30, 2005 Members Share Posted October 30, 2005 I think it's important to talk to kids about sex in an age appropriate manner. Sometimes this involves giving very simplistic answers that a child can understand. One time when I was little, I was watching a Police Academy movie where they go to a gay bar. I asked my Mom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 30, 2005 Members Share Posted October 30, 2005 If you don't talk about sex with your kid, your kid's gonna talk about sex with his or her friends. Which do you think is gonna be more accurate? They're gonna appreciate your candor and honesty about the subject, and appreciate you as a parent all the more. Celebrities should come out about their sexual orientation if they want to. When you consider all the lingerie ads, sexually oriented ads in magazines and TV, condom commercials, videos and everything else that's shoved in children's faces, a celebrity coming out is extremely mild. I think people need to know that some people are homosexual, and that's just the way things are, instead of it being a taboo subject. Having worked in education for almost half my life, I cannot say the above more strongly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bbach Posted October 31, 2005 Members Share Posted October 31, 2005 So what if George is happy? (get it? gay - happy) bwaaa haaa haaa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeebus Posted October 31, 2005 Members Share Posted October 31, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Counterpoint Posted October 31, 2005 Members Share Posted October 31, 2005 Originally posted by amplayer I don't care what the sexual orientation of the celebs is, and I fail to see why I should be glad to be made aware of it.The idea that it's somehow good for kids may be politically correct, but it's also preposterous.What about the billions of kids who haven't even reached puberty and hear of this and have to try to understand what it means? For those of you who say we SHOULD be teaching young children about homo and heterosexuality, I vehemently disagree. That deprives children of the innocence that is childhood.I wish the celebs would just keep their mouths shut about their sexual orientation. Based upon your logic, there are a whole bunch of things that we shouldn't mention to children, as it may be too much for them to handle. - We should never mention divorce or infidelity. If the parent of one of their friends runs off with his secretary, we should lie as to why he left. - We should never mention diseases that can harm children. If a kid gets leukemia, we just won't talk about that kid anymore. - We should never mention anything that's dangerous. Don't tell your kids about electrocution or accidental poisoning, and whatever you do, don't put them in a car seat. The idea of a traffic accident would be way too traumatizing to a youngster. - We should never tell kids about crime. Kidnapping. Murder. Abduction. Way too scary. Let them think that the world is completely safe; they can't handle anything darker than that. - And by all means, never, ever, EVER talk about child abuse and exploitation. Don't tell them what to do if someone touches them inappropriately. We wouldn't want to scare them. This is an adult topic. Children should not be exposed to it. - War. Forget it. Kids getting shot and blown to pieces, burned, crippled, mutilated. Children shouldn't have to think about such things. War doesn't exist as far as our kids go, agreed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Counterpoint Posted October 31, 2005 Members Share Posted October 31, 2005 Originally posted by amplayer I don't care what the sexual orientation of the celebs is, and I fail to see why I should be glad to be made aware of it. I don't care when celebs get married. I don't care when they're seen out at clubs with other people. I don't care when celebs leave their mates and run off with other celebrities. I don't care when celebs have kids. I don't care when they have TROUBLE having kids. And I really don't care if Celine Dion is sleeping with some ancient dude. I don't care when celebs go on a diet. I don't care when they get pulled over for DWI. I don't care when they get busted for doing drugs, and I don't want to see the mugshots. I don't care when celebs get into fights or duke a photographer. I don't care what the inside of their houses look like or what they wore to the latest all-star celeb funtion. I don't care what religion they practice or where they shop. Yet all of this stuff is reported. Volumes and volumes of celeb trivia comes out in the print media, on radio, on television, on the internet, and it's all rehashed around the water cooler. I don't care about any of it. So I don't read it. Or I change the station. Or I say, "Er, I've got to get back to work." But I have no issue with it being reported. No issue at all. Why would I? They're not talking about ME. They're not talking about my family. Just because information is in the media doesn't mean that I have to pay any attention to it at all. A celeb is gay, you say? That's nice. Pass the ketchup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Base Posted October 31, 2005 Members Share Posted October 31, 2005 Originally posted by MorePaul It definitely has cemented the fencing stereotype great friggin sport too That's the stereotype over there?!?!? Maybe it is here too, but the sort of people that would use it as an insult certainly wouldn't dare try walking into a Salle and saying it. 20 armed & p!$$ed off looking fencers will make you think twice about saying anything that is going to make them mad at you Originally posted by Lee Flier Anybody who'd ever seen Freddie and didn't already know he was gay is a moron, anyhow! Yeah, thanks, that would be me then. I was young and sheltered and just didn't even consider it until he died and all of the news reports mentioned it And no, it didn't make the slightest difference, Queen ROCK...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bbach Posted October 31, 2005 Members Share Posted October 31, 2005 Originally posted by Counterpoint I really don't care if Celine Dion is sleeping with some ancient dude. Ancient dudes need love too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brittanylips Posted October 31, 2005 Members Share Posted October 31, 2005 Originally posted by amplayer The idea that it's somehow good for kids may be politically correct, but it's also preposterous.What about the billions of kids who haven't even reached puberty and hear of this and have to try to understand what it means? For those of you who say we SHOULD be teaching young children about homo and heterosexuality, I vehemently disagree. That deprives children of the innocence that is childhood.I wish the celebs would just keep their mouths shut about their sexual orientation. I think the answer is to simply not go into the sex part for kids who are too young to deal with it - same with heterosexual relationships. For example, do you think it robs children of their innocence to know that you are married to a woman (if you are)? Telling a kid that you are married is a very different thing from going into the details of your sex life. Same with this. It is not inherently sexual unless you make it so. Say a kid finds out and asks their parent - "what does it mean that he's gay?" They can answer "he likes to spend time with men." End of story. They need not bring up sex any more than they need to bring up sex in telling a kid that Mr and Mrs PetuniaLips who live next door are a married couple. To say that much and no more does not prematurely teach kids about homo/heterosexuality. There's simply no need to innapropriately sexualize it any more than there's a need to innapropriately sexualize heterosexual relationships. -Peace, Love, and Brittanylips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tunanator Posted October 31, 2005 Members Share Posted October 31, 2005 The kids that will benefit from George coming out need to see that it's not the end of the world to do so. That's not about political correctness, and it's not preposterous; it's a very practical consideration. As George explains, he had to hide his sexuality, and now he doesn't have to. The more people don't hide, refuse to play along with staying invisible, refuse to keep quite for the convenience of others, the more acceptable being gay becomes. It matters to 5% or 10% of the kids who need to know they're not alone. And it matters to lots of people who aren't kids any more but are struggling with the ignorance all around them. Those people need to know that, despite how they're treated at home or in their little community, they are not alone. If it doesn't matter to you then, hey, it's not about you. Actually it probably does matter to you, you just don't know it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members amplayer Posted October 31, 2005 Members Share Posted October 31, 2005 Originally posted by Brittanylips I think the answer is to simply not go into the sex part for kids who are too young to deal with it - same with heterosexual relationships. As a parent of a 5 year old, I can tell you that trying to explain it and completely leave out the sex is not a satisfying answer. The society we live in has already forced me to have discussions with my child about these things.I think what people are forgetting is that the celebs get undue attention in anything they say or do. It isn't simply a matter of hetero/homosexuality. Our society is too fixated on sex and lust, and it's consequences are that kids are no longer free to enjoy just being kids anymore. That is unfortunate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members felix Posted October 31, 2005 Members Share Posted October 31, 2005 My kid asked what "gay" meant the other day (he's 8 years old - in the 3rd grade). I told him that some boys have boyfriends instead of girlfriends, and some girls have girlfriends instead of boyfriends. The explanation seemed to work fine for him. It's really a pretty matter-of-fact thing. I don't understand why it has to be a press release for a "star," unless they're looking for media exposure that they weren't previously getting (or if they think they have something to gain in terms of a fan base demographic that they think they don't already have). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Super 8 Posted November 1, 2005 Members Share Posted November 1, 2005 Originally posted by amplayer As a parent of a 5 year old, I can tell you that trying to explain it and completely leave out the sex is not a satisfying answer. It was never satisfying for me either. I was more interested in the sex part. Our society is too fixated on sex and lust, and it's consequences are that kids are no longer free to enjoy just being kids anymore. That is unfortunate. I agree that our society is too fixated on sex and lust. I tend to think it's because sexuality is repressed in our culture. It comes out in twisted ways.It's ironic, but I think if we were open about sex, there would be less of titillation and general weirdness out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr. Donovan Posted November 1, 2005 Members Share Posted November 1, 2005 I think a problem is the commercial exploitation of sex. Using sex to sell products. Maybe if our culture was more able to talk about sex in an open, rational way then sex wouldn't be so easy to use to sell products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Counterpoint Posted November 1, 2005 Members Share Posted November 1, 2005 Originally posted by bbach Ancient dudes need love too. I don't dispute that. I just don't want to think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members d. gauss Posted November 1, 2005 Members Share Posted November 1, 2005 wow! didn't see this one coming 2 or 3 decades ago. what's next? someone gonna tell me that dead hollywood center square star paul lynde was gay?... -d. gauss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Geoff Grace Posted November 1, 2005 Members Share Posted November 1, 2005 Originally posted by Counterpoint:I really don't care if Celine Dion is sleeping with some ancient dude. First Cleopatra and now Celine Dion - boy, that Gaius Julius Caesar sure gets around!Best,Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted November 1, 2005 Members Share Posted November 1, 2005 Originally posted by amplayer I think what people are forgetting is that the celebs get undue attention in anything they say or do. It isn't simply a matter of hetero/homosexuality. Our society is too fixated on sex and lust, and it's consequences are that kids are no longer free to enjoy just being kids anymore. That is unfortunate. I would agree with all of the above. And it makes it all the more important that you as a parent are there to guide your kid and be open enough (in an appropriate way, as other have said, obviously) so that your kid feels comfortable coming to find out about these things and discuss them and not someone else. It makes such a huge impact on your kid's life, even if you're uncomfortable with it initially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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