A buck at the iTunes store gets you only one song but...

[where02190]

Terry the technology exists now. A 60GB IPOD will hold thousands of wav files, yet most ipod users convert to MP3 so they can carry 10's fo thousands or watch cheesy videos instead.

[Jimbroni]

Originally posted by where02190 Terry the technology exists now. A 60GB IPOD will hold thousands of wav files, yet most ipod users convert to MP3 so they can carry 10's fo thousands or watch cheesy videos instead.

 

 

Alot of people who have ipods are somewhat nontechies, and don't even realize you can change the format to Cd quality on import. You don't know how many people I've enlightened to that fact.

[where02190]

Same here, and most say it takes too long, takes up too much room, etc. IMHO people really don't care about quality for the most part.

[offramp]

Which starts to kill the energy behind deciding which preamp to buy.


I've yet to meet anyone--whether it's an iPod or one of the PC versions--that listens to all of the music they stuff into it. In my own example, I got a 10G iPod for Christmas a couple of years ago; I stuffed a bunch of AAC into it, and STILL had about 4G of space left, not to mention that I hardly ever played 2/3 of what I put into it.
Like most things in our culture, there's oversell on this point. The reality of what we actually used is quite different than the potential.

[aliengroover]

Originally posted by offramp Which starts to kill the energy behind deciding which preamp to buy. Like most things in our culture, there's oversell on this point. The reality of what we actually used is quite different than the potential.

 

 

What the people are satisfied with shouldn't influence how and what we use to record. We can't put on the brakes because of mp3s and the like. In fact, it's safe to say that as long as we keep pushing better quality, theoretically it'll result in better mp3s, and maybe more people putting quality files into their protable players.

 

I agree about reality and potential. It's very prevalent. Many people complain about features, and the lack of, that they'll NEVER use. I mean, do most people even have 10,000 songs in their collection that they'd listen to?

Peace

[where02190]

It depends on the genre and market. I do a fair amount of young (high school age) rockish bands, and for that it is imperative that the final mix sound good in MP3 format, as the majority of the audience is listening on that format.

[Will Chen]

Originally posted by aliengroover What the people are satisfied with shouldn't influence how and what we use to record. We can't put on the brakes because of mp3s and the like. In fact, it's safe to say that as long as we keep pushing better quality, theoretically it'll result in better mp3s, and maybe more people putting quality files into their protable players.

 

 

You absolutely, as a business rule, must give the customer what they want and take into account the intended audience of the project at hand. That's not to say you shouldn't provide them with information to the contrary of their current state of mind, however, as they say, the customer is always right...

 

I'll have to listen to some records on my pop's system (a late seventies hi-fi keep in pretty good condition) the next time I go home, he has a bunch of old orchestral records.

[aliengroover]

But who's the customer? The client or the consumer? I see where Where's coming from, but I've personally yet to have a client come in and say "well, it's just going to be put up as mp3s, so a great sounding CD doesn't matter." My point is with that influencing the recording. My responsibility is to my client, the artist or the band. And in that responsibility I work to deliver the best sounding recording I can. If they want it as mp3s, which most do, I will process it and give them the best sounding mp3s I can. But again, I'm not going to just say, oh well, the client and their fans only care about the mp3s, so no need to really put any effort into it. Like I said earlier, IMHO, done right, better sounding recordings make for better sounding mp3s. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm not.

The bottom line, IMO, is that in general, people DO care about quality, but they also care about convenience and portability. However, people will sacrifice quality for convenience. Remember laserdiscs and vinyl, the heart of this thread? VHS and cassettes were chosen over those formats, not because they were of better quality, but because of convenience. BTW, nobody dumbed down the filming/recording processes because of that, either. DVDs and CDs took over because they offered quality and convenience. People are still buying CDs, but like all entertainment it's taken a hit, mainly because there are so many options. But I believe when the quality is evident, the public will gravitate towards that.

Where and others pointed out that most people don't know that they can put uncompressed files onto their iPods and such, and that's absolutely true. They just know them as "mp3 players". Maybe one day that will change. Maybe not. But I absolutely, positively am not going to tank good recording practices because Johnny will only hear it as an mp3.
Peace

[Super 8]

Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe I just might have to start hitting the thrift store record bins once in a while myself - yeah, in my "free time".

Cool! I just scored:

Starland Vocal Band!!!!!


and Gerry Rafferty!!!!


Actually, I'm joking about Starland , but I did pick up City to City at the Salvation Army a few years ago. Now if I only had a turntable to play it!

[devast8r]

Has anyone ever checked out

www.allofmp3.com

More flexibility in your music downloads for a fraction of the price. I still haven't forked over any money to them as I am skeptical about the legality. I have a strange feeling the site is run by russian mobsters or sumpin'.

[the stranger]

Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe CD can sound great on the lowliest of players or the best, and the speaker/amplifer chain will be what today really makes the difference. That is why we need a new high-resolution format to really provide the improvements digital can give while exceeding the best vinyl could give. I'm not sure I can completely agree with you on that Doug. Although I'm in complete agreement about the importance of the amplifier and speakers, IMO, the quality of the D/A converters in the player itself would also factor in considerably insofar as the sound quality equation... with better quality players hopefully having better converters onboard.

In my limited experience, the d/a converter is the most important part.
I can hear a {censored}ty d/a, sounds like chirping or something. It's really annoying.
I had a typical JVC 5-disc player. $200.
I used it like twice and sold it to somebody with less demanding tastes.
It took an audiophile buddy if mine to even help me figure it out. Nobody but me could hear it. They (wife, family, pets) thought I was crazy (what else is new? ).
And I have heard that {censored} since.

[the stranger]

And CD Players with loud lasers piss me off, too!

[offramp]

Anyone finds a good-condition copy of the Klark Kent LP (the CD would be better!), let me know.

[where02190]

Excellent points aliengroover, and it often becomes a fine balancing act of mulitple mixes and masterings for the different formats, since the CD audio converted MP3 at lowerer than what I consider acceptable standards will IMHO just sound like ass. However since many times I send these young wannabee projects to contacts I have in the industry to assist in furthering their sqwandering fortunes as rock stars, I want them to sound killer. However often their initial use if for their website or myspace.com(the latest drug in cyberspace for the youngersomethings), so, I will do separate mix or at least masterings, and do the MP3 conversions for them as well, delivering both Redbook CD for duplication and MP3's that I usually also upload for them (so I know my mp3 is the one that gets uploaded).

My primary loyalty is to the client (read: who's name is on the check) however I won't compromise my reputation on a bad mix via mp3 either, it's my name on there also. I actually have a clause in our mandatory contract that states I have approval/denial rights on all mixes, and if I don't approve my name cannot go on them.

[veracohr]

Originally posted by Jimbroni Alot of people who have ipods are somewhat nontechies, and don't even realize you can change the format to Cd quality on import. You don't know how many people I've enlightened to that fact.

 

 

Well, not really. If someone downloads an mp3 and converts it to WAV or AIFF, they're not changing it to CD quality, they're just making a small {censored}ty-sounding file into a large {censored}ty-sounding file. By converting it into mp3 in the first place, the damage has already been done, before someone even downloads it.

[Ani]

In the past, I've never been one to download mp3 tunes from any type service, paid or illegal either one, simply because the idea didn't appeal to me to spend hours upon hours surfing through songs that I "might" want to listen to; never even ONCE had a desire to use Napster, Kazza, or their prototypes due to their ethics. The most I ever listened to online were some "live" streaming radio stations from around the world before some went under; that, and personal files of people I knew in person or virtually from the SSS forums who invited me to download their private works. There was a really cool German radio station that I used to listen to, but it was taken off of the network that I was tuned into.

This is going to be OT a bit, but on topic relative to subscription services.

Recently, after enrolling in a paid unlimited service for downloading music files in attempts to capture 2 songs for my brothers wife's funeral/ceremony of life service; I read the EULA "AFTER THE FACT" of purchasing the service. The "ONLY" reason I enrolled in the program was to obtain IMMEDIATE access to the 2 tunes because I told my brother that he could count on me to follow through; he thought he had left the 2 CD's he had purchased for the service locked inside the church in their hometown where the first of the two services was held.

First of all, the enrollment process is flawed. My brother had pointed me to a Walmart music service that he had attempted to enroll in that had both of the songs in question; he couldn't get their music engine installed and was running out of time to travel from his place to Kansas City where the 2nd service was to be held. Walmart downloadable music????? What the hay???? I attempted to download and install the same on my computer while my brother was still on the phone, and then began having the same problem that he had experienced with installing their mandatory software to utilize their service. With time pressing on him, I could see his frustration in needing to leave his place to arrive on time here in K.C., so I told him not to worry; I'd get the songs and bring them.

I had no success whatsoever in getting the service provided by Walmart to install, so I ran a few searches on the song titles to see what music services had them available for purchase. Another paid service that I came across was asking me to install some software engine that had Sony's mark on it; with the recent rootkit controversy I didn't want any part of anything Sony had available... I didn't want to compromise my system.

I then moved over to the Yahoo music service, while rapidly running out of time myself, and successfully enrolled in their program; or so I thought... Then I wasn't able to download any songs without their service taking me back out to the main entry page prompting me to enroll.... WTF??? My credit card information was accepted the first time through, I downloaded and installed their music engine, and then when I tried to download the music files; their system kept kicking me back out to the enrollment page. I thought that something had gone wrong with the first order going through, even though I got the nice little "thank you for your order" page, so I attempted to reenter my personal information and then kept getting access error messages after that. Completely out of time, in knowing that I would have to go buy hard copy CD's from Best Buy around the corner from me; I called them to find out if they had both CD's.... they only had the one.... The whole thing was turning into a nightmare... back online for more searching....

I ended up showing up late (about 15 minutes) to the service myself, after having to travel to pick my sister up who lived on the opposite end of the City from where I am, and then go to another end of the city from there. As I snuck in the door, so not to disturb the moment of remembrance, I heard one of the songs already playing in the background. I was relieved that my brother had found his CD's while at the same time furious with downloadable music services for all the TRIPE they are all about. I've heard so much HYPE about how good they are, and such, but my first impression of attempting to use them will be a lasting impression.

When I got home, after checking my emails, I found an email where my credit card information had been accepted by the music service and I went back online to see what had gone wrong in gaining access to a service that I had obviously adequately enrolled in.... This time, I was able to access the music.... YEAH, SUPER FREAKING FANTASTIC... now that I had wasted all that time, had to resort to running to the CD store after all, and then failing to "come through" on time for my brother as I had promised to do..................... :mad: Had I not spent all the time I did in jacking around with paid music subscriptions, I would have had the time to travel to another CD store to find the other copy.... plus I would have been on time to the service.

After taking the time to thoroughly read through the end user agreement; I won't be continuing their service. Plus, their music engine in manipulative and jacks with my Windows Media Player that is my choice of players now. Being one that despises invasive programs; I have already uninstalled the music engine so that I can comfortably use my Windows Media Player whenever I open a file.

Sorry for the rant, but a satisfied customer may tell a few about the greatness of a product.... an unsatified customer will tell many.

I'd buy a 1000 full CD's at full price... while getting full sound quality... before attempting to subscribe to an mp3 download site again.

[where02190]

FYI, The Itunes Music Store is NOT an MP3 download site. Itunes files download as AAC files and sound fantastic, blowing away any resolution mp3.

[Ani]

Originally posted by where02190 FYI, The Itunes Music Store is NOT an MP3 download site. Itunes files download as AAC files and sound fantastic, blowing away any resolution mp3.

 

 

Thanks Where.

 

After reading a few different EULA's in some of the subscription services, at least when you buy a CD off of the shelf or through mail order, you will own the songs contained within for the life of the media it's recorded on. In some of the download sites; if you discontinue the subscription services, you are required to destroy all copies of the music downloaded.... Once your subscription expires, so does your license to use the songs. For that matter, one might as well just listen to web radio where the hosts pay the costs.

 

........

 

I typed the above, so it stays.... but your post directed me to the iTunes site where I read this:

 

 

...the iTunes Music Store eliminates the hassle of subscription services and banishes annoying ads. For just 99

[phaeton]

Originally posted by Jeff da Weasel I couldn't disagree with your disagreement more. Vinyl was/is probably the finest consumer music playback medium of any. - Jeff

 

 

 

Vinyl sounds more comfortable.

[aliengroover]

Originally posted by veracohr Well, not really. If someone downloads an mp3 and converts it to WAV or AIFF, they're not changing it to CD quality, they're just making a small {censored}ty-sounding file into a large {censored}ty-sounding file. By converting it into mp3 in the first place, the damage has already been done, before someone even downloads it.

 

 

I think everybody's referring to converting their CD collection to put into the player. At least I am. Most of the songs people are putting on their players are from CDs, being as even the below average person has a pretty sizable collection.

Peace

[aliengroover]

Oh, and one more thing about the greatness of vinyl:

The ARTWORK!!! Man, oh, man! People actually got deep with it. Not only are you not getting that with the 99 cent download, you're not getting it with CDs, either.
Peace