Shredder: by definition

[Yngtchie Blacksteen]

A metal guitarist with superior technical abilities, a penchant for tearing it up more often than not, that's my broad definition of a shredder. Many guitarists are capable of 'shredding', such as Allan Holdsworth and John McLaughlin, but I wouldn't refer to them as shredders per se. Having the abilities, and actually using them in a certain way, that's two different things.

[Yngtchie Blacksteen]

most say that shredders are crazy lil anderoids/robots that lack any kind of feelings or emotions. if that were true, why exactly would these paticular guitarists in question be willing to sacrifice thousands of hours infront of this lil weird wooden thing and play?

Great point. I do it because I really do find it appealing, and I put as much passion into my playing as any blues guitarist. Claiming otherwise is elitist and ignorant, plain and simple.

[riffy]

What about Paco De Lucia? What about Strunz and Farah?
Are they shredders? They all three play EXTREMELY fast.
But they do it on nylon string acoustic. Does that disqualify
them from shred?

Don't try and weasel out by categorizing them as acoustic
shredders either!

[Zeppelin Rules]

From the Home Page of the Castle of Shred Yahoo Group: http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/castle_of_shred/ "Shredding is the art of playing the guitar in an amazing way, coupling awesome technique with baffling speed, often in a neoclassical framework. This group is for those interested in guitar mastery, including all styles and techniques." I remember being in a music store, where a young Asian kid picked up a violin, and began playing the most amazing music - very fast and technical. As the violin is an acoustic instrument, he needed no amp, but could be heard everywhere in the store. Everyone stopped what they were doing and listened. No one accused him of being a wanker, a shredder, a show-off, or anything other than a talented player in control of his music. I thought then, if he would have been playing guitar, many so-called purists would have heaped scorn on his abilities. I think that shredding is just like anything else on guirar - finger-picking, chicken picking, folk guitar strumming, rhythm playing, blues, etc. If you like it, you practice it and get good at it. If not, you don't. One thing is not exclusive of the other. Why criticize it?

 

 

 

Thats the biggest contradiction I see in this whole shred hate thing. People don't criticize people who play classical music very well and fast, and they're not even coming up with it most of the time. In fact, most of the time they're playing stuff by people who've been dead for hundreds of years. Also if you play acoustic, are you automatically not a shredder ? The whole I don't like it cause its too perfect thing makes no sense too me.

[Zeppelin Rules]

 

i actually find it really annoying when people say that shredders are not musicians and blah blah blah... but, for the sake or argument, i'd like to introduce a new breed to this thred. here it is: first: blues/jazz/'soul' and 'emotional' guitarists second: speed/metal/highly technical guitarists third: guitarists that just strum chords. first, i dont have any hatred towards any paticular kind of guitarist. each teach me a thing or two, though i'm primarily a metal guitarist getting into more classical(not neo) stuff... but i get REALLY irritated when people bash guitarists who sred, yet praise guitarists that do ANYTHING but shredding. i admit that at times i find shredding music kinda boring. but at the same time, i find guitarists who are far from fast/technical boring as well. people tend to praise guitarists that play a note a minute with lots of vibratos and high sustain... at the same time, if a guitarist can strum a few chords, he/she/it gets tons of prises as well. doesnt matter how fast he/she/it is changing its chords.. yet anyone who dares to play fast automatically is hated. most say that shredders are crazy lil anderoids/robots that lack any kind of feelings or emotions. if that were true, why exactly would these paticular guitarists in question be willing to sacrifice thousands of hours infront of this lil weird wooden thing and play? at the same time, the same people love guitaris taht use lots and lots of reverb, and wah, and play VERY VVEERRYY VVVVEEEERRRRYYYY slow to make the guitar sound like its crying. sure, play anything slow, and you may make either the guitar, or your auidence to tear up... but noobs would do that. not calling blues/jazz/folk/rock guitarists noobish. actually now that i think about it, im too sleepy to make sense.

 

 

I wouldn't necessarily lump all jazz guys in with blues and folk, some jazz guys play very fast. Oh right, how could I forget, playing really fast isn't shred if you're playing jazz. How stupid of me.

[clarky]

yeah, I have a response.... uh, what?

 

 

LMAO..... that's a great clip... lol..

 

I treat speed in the same way I treat FX..

why..??

because the use of "note density" [how many notes per bar] is an effect in it's own right..

composers have been exploiting this for centuries to create certani effects within their music..

high note densities increase the intensity of the music - in general..

 

so as a writer and improviser myself, I treat shredding in the same way...

when I want the dynamics of a piece or section of music to increase or head towards a peak, increasnig note density is one way you can achieve this effect..

 

and in reverse, when you want the music to lose intensity, longer note lengths and spaces achieve this by "opening out" the mood...

 

so to me, shredding for the sake of it to make music seems like the tail wagging the dog...

 

shredding is a single option among many with which to control the mood of your music

[clarky]

I wouldn't necessarily lump all jazz guys in with blues and folk, some jazz guys play very fast. Oh right, how could I forget, playing really fast isn't shred if you're playing jazz. How stupid of me.

 

 

 

this is actually a very interesting point...

 

guys like

Metheny

DiMiola

Holdsworth

McLaughlin

 

often use lots of pace in their playing.. and often too..

 

surely they qualify as shredders... lol..

[logansc]

When people do breakdowns with rythym instead of shredding, this annoys me. Steve Vai and satriani are good at guitar, but there music doesn't show it, they just play really upbeat, fast,. and annoying stuff and too much of it. Shredding is fine for a few seconds of a song every now and then, the same with virtuoso stuff, and what not, but nobody except for guitar people like that stuff, and still some of them are bored by it. you'll lose a crowd with that much stuff. And finger tapping is stupid, it takes no skill whatsoever.

I do like to learn from shredders though, like I'll play along to a racerx cd, but I don't like listening to them.

[clarky]

And finger tapping is stupid, it takes no skill whatsoever.

 

 

"takes no skill"

bro... this is not actually true...

I know some pentatonics runs, licks and arps that contain taps that are a bit of a nightmare, but they sound very pretty..

 

tapping - like all other techniques - has no limits

so like all other techniques, it has a difficulty range from

"not so bad"

right through to

"completely impossible"

[FFStratophile]

A shredder to me is a combination of two things:

 

- A player that makes me yawn

 

- A player that plays fast a lot

[Dave_Mc_2]

Thats the biggest contradiction I see in this whole shred hate thing. People don't criticize people who play classical music very well and fast, and they're not even coming up with it most of the time. In fact, most of the time they're playing stuff by people who've been dead for hundreds of years. Also if you play acoustic, are you automatically not a shredder ? The whole I don't like it cause its too perfect thing makes no sense too me.

[Dave_Mc_2]

When people do breakdowns with rythym instead of shredding, this annoys me. Steve Vai and satriani are good at guitar, but there music doesn't show it, they just play really upbeat, fast,. and annoying stuff and too much of it. Shredding is fine for a few seconds of a song every now and then, the same with virtuoso stuff, and what not, but nobody except for guitar people like that stuff, and still some of them are bored by it. you'll lose a crowd with that much stuff. And finger tapping is stupid, it takes no skill whatsoever. I do like to learn from shredders though, like I'll play along to a racerx cd, but I don't like listening to them.

finger tapping takes no skill?



like any technique, there are different variations of it, with differing levels of difficulty.

plus, plenty of people who like classical music (with shredding) aren't just necessarily violinists, for example.

And the argument that "only guitarists like it" could be used for quite a lot of guitar music, not just shred, i'd wager.

[johanneswiberg]

Shredding doesn't really have a negative connotation to it, but since many people dislike it, it's often used in a derogatory sense.

It doesn't matter if it makes you yawn or not, it doesn't matter how melodic it is, shredding is, IMO, "electric guitar played in a rock music environment, with great speed, showcasing the player's technical ability". Unmelodic and boring shredding = BAD shredding. If you think shredding is always unmelodic and boring, perhaps it's not for you. But I don't think that means that the word "shredding" means boring or unmelodic.

And Satriani is certainly a shredder, from time to time. Even McLaughlin has been seen shredding, though it's quite rare.

[Kneel Diamynd]

In my manner of thinking, a shredder is someone who is technically
proficient in both playing physics and musical theory; a combination
which generally lends itself to amazing fits of speed upon demand.
Having this combined with musicality and ability to evoke strong
emotional response with the music/playing seems to me to be quite
rare. As as been previously suggested, it often seems that a purely
technical focus draws away from the fun and life of music.

A good shredder has the capacity and knowledge to truly push the
bounds of his instrument like playing slide with a whammy bar instead
of an actual slide and making it enjoyable.

Most have heard the phrase that "so and so can say 1000 words with
one note rather than wasting 1000 notes to say 1 word". Often blues
players are not referred to as "shredders" because the slower playing
and the bulk of listeners will suggest that they make up for speed
with emotion. However, any blues player still qualifies as a wanker if
he spends a 90 minute set bending notes and practicing guitargazm face.
Take Chris Duarte and Johnny Lang as examples.

That being said, I can say that I consider Steve Vai to be a shredder
and I do like his music and it moves me. However, I don't care for the
Viking Fartblossom Malmsteen. Conversely, just because
a player is decidedly not a shredder does not mean he makes up
for it with pure emotion: for instance, that douchemuffin from Puddle
of Mudd can't even play his "own" songs and he still sucks in the non-technical realm.

Thus, shredder can be both good and bad depending on who you ask.

"you turn on the shred and tear the neck to splinters with the sole objectives of making the song climax via very specific tonal effects that are centred around note densities..." -clarky

Dude, I hate it when I get the perfect note density and climax. I go through
lots of strings and fret polish that way.

"and calling someone a wanker also translates directly into an invitation to the parking lot with a length of 4be2 to enhance further discussion" -clarky

Bro, is that some kind of wussy metric system reference to a 2x4?

[mikejungle]

[RockRocket]

Most classical composers were shredders and they are considered the greatest musicians of all time.

[clarky]

one thing that does seem a little unjustified is the otion that "feel" only applies to whailing blues / ballads and stuff of this ilk..

for me...

feel = passion

passion to me means that the player is totally committed to expressing emotion content..
and emotions are much wider than just sadness and such that you find in low tempo music like ballads and blues..

so to me, a full on metal riffer expressing rage can be every bit as passionate in the delivery of the emotional content at hand...

and like kneel diamynd says..
shred does not automatically = no soul and blueness does not automatically = feel

all styles and approaches have thier fair share of masters and dross

[clarky]

Most classical composers were shredders and they are considered the greatest musicians of all time.

 

 

 

I studied 16th to 20th century music [harmony, composition, etc] at university...

one of the most striking things that hit me was not only how amazing the great masters were as musicians...

but also how amazing they were at so many instruments...

[RockRocket]

Niccol

[Vermintide]

Niccol

[clarky]

Antonio Vivaldi may have done though....

priest or no priest...

ol' Testarossa had a bit of a rep... lol..

[soliloquy]

ohh...yeah, so some one commented on my 'some blues guitarists are fast as well!'

blah blah blah...

i'm not saying that they arnt. eric johnson is fairly fast as well

but here is an example of what happend yesterday...

so, i was at this guitar store playing out this jackson rhoads 5 guitar. while i was sweeping/shredding(i fail at shredding...sweeping i can do though) i noticed this kid around my age(18 or 19ish) grabbing a guitar and plugging in. he had the amp on, and plugged the guitar from amp to guitar, making a loud popping sound.

he started playing the over-rated-highly-annoying-very-boring-song called 'smells like teen spirit'. and then he hit the solo...and yeah. he {censored}ed up a few times.

mocking(half sarcastically) i asked him how long he has been playing for, and he boldly said '3 month's. thats when i said in my head 'yeah fine. for 3 months he is pretty good. when i was playing for 3 months, i was still using my index finger to fret around. so i let him be.

about 20 minutes later, the same guy hooked up on the combo i HATE THE MOST. the wah + reverb + marshal amp. and he was doing some solo that i THINK was from pink floyd...he was messing up, but playing slow and letting each and every note die out

and right infront of me were these three people. 2 guys and one girl. and they all said 'whow, hes good'


truth be told, he really wasnt. play slow(with lots os sustain) with lots of reverb and wah, and you will sound emotional

[soliloquy]

Vivaldi may have done though....

his 4 seasons is tough to play! i only managed to pull off half of 'summer' before i got lost

but good music


oh, and how bout this guy:
john williams

hes a classical guitarist, and {censored}ing technical!!!!!

[Armitage]

To me, Shredding is playing quick and technically perfect, with a lot of theory behind the playing. Many times a classically oriented base, similar to old violin runs.

Wanking, is mindless fast playing, basically trying to show off you can play fast, though it may not suit the tune... or anything else for that matter.

[curseoftruth]

Niccol