Members martingibson70 Posted February 19, 2006 Members Share Posted February 19, 2006 I'm interested to know if these instruments are best suited for specific genres or styles. I find myself listening to and playing more country blues ( Fleetwood Mac/Sheryl Crow/Keith Urban) to get a better feel for how they lay in the mix. Suggestions? The 12 string is a 79 Guild 412-no electronics. Mics: Rode NTK condensor, SM 57, SM 58 Beta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted February 19, 2006 Members Share Posted February 19, 2006 First you tune it. And then, when you're done carefully tuning it, you tune it. And then, when you're done tuning it, you... Just kidding. No guitar or keyboard will ever be really in tune. And a 12 string that was somehow miraculously in perfect tune wouldn't sound the way we really want, anyhow... While I'm a fan of dynamics, particularly the SM57 for chunky acoustic rhythm, I think, if you've got one, a nice condensor mic might be a good starting place. Anice condensor will putatively give you a little more subtly defined high end, which is important for capturing the complex harmonic interplay between all those strings that gives the 12 string its characteristic sound. If you have a couple of mics or a multi-polar mic you might try experimenting with omni as well as cardioid polar patterns. Omni will have negligible proximity effect (where, with a cardiod/directional mic, as you get closer to a source, you mpick up more bass) and will pick up more of the room sound -- which may or may not be good. Experiment, to be sure -- that's one of the most important ways of learning this stuff, correlating your experience with what hits your ears -- but I suspect you'll find the richest 12 string recording will find the mic a bit away from the guitar, where the sounds from all the strings and the various parts of the guitar will be blending somewhat. But experiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members daklander Posted February 19, 2006 Members Share Posted February 19, 2006 Start out with a pretty much standard mic setup and adjust as necessary. You could start with the condenser a foot and a half or so from the guitar, pointed at the bridge. Maybe the SM57 at the 12th to 14th fret, slightly toward the soundhole and the Beta either pointed at the headstock or over your shoulder pointed toward the front of the soundhole. Mix to taste. Really, what you have to do is try all sorts of positions, distances and individual mic presence until you find what works best on that particular day on that particular guitar with that particular player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boosh Posted February 19, 2006 Members Share Posted February 19, 2006 What Dak said,..... but I would also record multipe takes and let the mics trade places. You could also mic the guitar with two mics and place the other one in the middle of the recording space just to record some room and natural echos. Further I recommend reading Bruce's book and reading his posts about mic placement and techniques. Most important thing I learned : Don't put your faith in gear but in your ear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kiwiburger Posted February 19, 2006 Members Share Posted February 19, 2006 Try the NTK aimed at the 14th fret, about 18" away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members martingibson70 Posted February 20, 2006 Author Members Share Posted February 20, 2006 Wow! There's a wealth of expertise here. Thanks for the suggestions. Now I just have to do it. Which brings up an idea for another thread, "The challenges of recording yourself." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted February 20, 2006 Members Share Posted February 20, 2006 I like to use two small diaphragm condensers in X-Y about 2-3 feet away, one aiming towards the bridge, and the other aiming towards where the neck connects to the body. That's a starting point. But there's many other ways to do this. A real simple way to get a pretty balanced sound is one mic, SDC or LDC usually, aimed perpendicular to where the neck meets the body, about 2 feet away to start, and then adjust to where you want it to sound. Rarely do either of these two positions suck, especially when you've moved it/them around to taste. They're good starting points. Over the shoulder, as Dak suggested, works well too, especially in conjunction with another mic. How far away you place the mics is largely a matter of taste and what you want the sound to be like for that particular song. For instance, you may end up liking a particular sound for solo 12-string, but prefer a different micing position (perhaps farther away) for something that blends in with other instruments. Sometimes you may want a slightly "gutsier" sort of sound and move the mics in a bit closer. Since you don't mention any other condenser mics, one good choice for you might be the NTK like how Kiwiburger suggested. Since there's only one mic, I like this to be maybe 2' away, aiming at where the body meets the neck, more or less the same position as he is suggesting, I believe, and then moving it closer/farther until you get it just where you want. This may be a foot, 3 feet, or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jackcheez Posted February 20, 2006 Members Share Posted February 20, 2006 I have a client who got a Koa 12 string made by Michael Sussman. Now he doesn't want to use anything else. Ever. Me, I point a C451b at the 12th fret (6 inches out) angled away from the hole. Sounds good. But for every song on the whole record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tedster Posted February 20, 2006 Members Share Posted February 20, 2006 Originally posted by daklander Really, what you have to do is try all sorts of positions Someone oughta write "The Kama Sutra of Mic Techniques"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted February 20, 2006 Members Share Posted February 20, 2006 I approach a 12 same as a 6, with a pair of 414's about 2 feet away, one at the 12th fret, aimed where the neck meets the body, the other at the butt, even with the bottom of the bridge and aimed at the bridge. Pan hard left/right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philbo Posted February 21, 2006 Members Share Posted February 21, 2006 What everybody else said... Also, if your room has a goud sound, try adding a mid-side pair from about 6 - 8 feet away to get a good ambient room sound with enhanced stereo image. Then at mix, use the apparent L/R position from the mid-side pair to set the close mic pan position. (A lot depends on whether the instrument is center of interest or accompaniment - - you may not WANT it to be too prominent) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thunderpuppy Posted February 22, 2006 Members Share Posted February 22, 2006 I'd have to say that most any of the above answers are good answers, but how to mic a 12 string is something that I always base on the song and arrangement. If there's not a lot of instrumentation (especially if it's just the guitar and voice), man, make it BIG. To the stereo XY plus a room mic or a M/S setup. Man, if I have a 12-string, I really want to capitalize on it, and mix it in stereo. But if it's a dense mix, you can't always go stereo with one instrument... I've wasted a lot of time trying to mix around one element I wanted to glamorize, only to back up and realize that wide stereo for one element wasn't going to work out. So then, maybe a flat, large diaphragm or-- even more dense and focused-- a 57, positioned to taste, and we place it where it fits. But I really love a big, stereo mic'd 12-string. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.