Members joel Oporto Posted December 9, 2006 Members Share Posted December 9, 2006 also It starts me thinking of regularly setting up in an auditorium to get that huge space or at least sample the space!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bruce Swedien Posted December 9, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 9, 2006 Originally posted by GY So Bruce, you say this mp3 is of a 2 track/stereo recording? Is the picture of you and the 300 from the same session? I'm a little confused. Could this have been recorded to 3 tracks? How is it that the reverb from the vocal is louder than from the band and a little to the left of center? Don't you just love Joe's voice! GY Greg.....Oooh, you've got some ears!Yes, I recorded the original band recordings on our 1/2 inch Three Track Ampex 300. Then I mixed that to my own Ampex 351 two-track stereo machine. I still have that machine. May I email you a photo of that machine and will you please post it here. I bought it new when I still lived in Minneapolis in 1954. (I always have trouble when I try to post my photos.)The track split-up on the three-track 1/2 inch was: Track 1-Band Left... Track 2 was Joe's vocal dry. Track 3 was Band right. The reverb on the two-track stereo mix is supplied from a stereo mike set-up in a 'Live' chamber that Bill Putnam built before he left Chicago for Los Angeles. That reverb is returned to the stereo mix. The three-tack master was used mainly as a 'tool' to adjust the level of the vocal to the orchestra or band, and to adjust the level of the reverb to the mix on the two-track stereo. Also with the advent of Sel-sync we could overdub on the master 1/2 inch tape.Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GY Posted December 9, 2006 Members Share Posted December 9, 2006 I'll reply via email. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fantasticsound Posted December 9, 2006 Members Share Posted December 9, 2006 Originally posted by GY Ampex gave me permission to scan the original photo for use on my website, if I, in turn, gave them a file of the scan. I used to know some Ampex employees through a Ron Newdoll connection, the owner of Accurate Sound and James Wood of Inovoincs. That photo is not from me and is a scaled-down version of mine. I was making a point to the person who has it on their site that they do not have permission to publish it. A link to my scan would be fine. Bruce... did you miss my photo of my 300 and HP oscillator a few posts back? Bruce sent me that photo with a request to post it. I can just as easily point the photo to your website, but why don't you post it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fantasticsound Posted December 9, 2006 Members Share Posted December 9, 2006 Originally posted by GY I'll reply via email. If you don't put the [/img tag it shows up as in your post, as a link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members franknputer Posted December 13, 2006 Members Share Posted December 13, 2006 Hey Bruce - I'm catching up a bit late, but I'd like to hear the tune as well. Sending you a PM - hope you can include me still? Christopher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bruce Swedien Posted December 13, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 13, 2006 Originally posted by franknputer Hey Bruce - I'm catching up a bit late, but I'd like to hear the tune as well. Sending you a PM - hope you can include me still? Christopher Christopher.....Of course I can....I need your email. PM me with your email address...Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members franknputer Posted December 13, 2006 Members Share Posted December 13, 2006 Wow. What a beautiful mix. I'm listening on computer speakers, actually, yet there's a wonderful smoothness and clarity about the mix, especially considering the compressed format & the modest speakers.The trombone...I didn't give it a lot of thought first time through (prior to reading your story), perhaps because it cut through quite well - no real loss of highs or anything, it didn't sound at all "dead", like one might think just from reading about the technique...Second listen I paid a bit more attention (I am at work... ) and the first thought that struck me was a flashback to my own youth, in New Orleans. I used to walk to school back then, and I would hear the sound of the marching bands working out in the morning - I've always loved that sound, distant music wafting through the neighborhoods, although I've associated it more with drums (usually it was drum practice in the morning).That solo suddenly reminded me of that sound, of a lone musician playing somewhere nearby - out of sight, but not out of earshot, slightly mysterious...just the sort of thing that would catch a young person's fancy & hook them on "that sound"...music.Thanks for sharing that - what, to me, is an incredible example of the effect of what sonic character can imply in a piece. ****************************************************(BTW, for the trolls: I've done my fair share of mixing, and have worked with enough Famous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bruce Swedien Posted December 13, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 13, 2006 Originally posted by franknputer Wow. What a beautiful mix. I'm listening on computer speakers, actually, yet there's a wonderful smoothness and clarity about the mix, especially considering the compressed format & the modest speakers.The trombone...I didn't give it a lot of thought first time through (prior to reading your story), perhaps because it cut through quite well - no real loss of highs or anything, it didn't sound at all "dead", like one might think just from reading about the technique...Second listen I paid a bit more attention (I am at work... ) and the first thought that struck me was a flashback to my own youth, in New Orleans. I used to walk to school back then, and I would hear the sound of the marching bands working out in the morning - I've always loved that sound, distant music wafting through the neighborhoods, although I've associated it more with drums (usually it was drum practice in the morning).That solo suddenly reminded me of that sound, of a lone musician playing somewhere nearby - out of sight, but not out of earshot, slightly mysterious...just the sort of thing that would catch a young person's fancy & hook them on "that sound"...music.Thanks for sharing that - what, to me, is an incredible example of the effect of what sonic character can imply in a piece. ****************************************************(BTW, for the trolls: I've done my fair share of mixing, and have worked with enough Famous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members franknputer Posted December 13, 2006 Members Share Posted December 13, 2006 Let me ask you this: do you find it more difficult to "affect" popular music this way? If you're working with synths, distorted guitars, etc how do you find room to apply more subtle techniques without them being overwhelmed?(I realize this is kind of a broad question, but I asked it anyway. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted December 13, 2006 Members Share Posted December 13, 2006 Originally posted by franknputer (BTW, for the trolls: I've done my fair share of mixing, and have worked with enough Famous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted December 14, 2006 Moderators Share Posted December 14, 2006 Originally posted by UstadKhanAli Yes, that's exactly right. If someone is doing interesting work that deserves to be praised, then they should be praised regardless of whether they are famous or not without fear of being accused of "kissing ass". Hey! Now you're kissing his ass! Have you no shame? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudolf von Hagenwil Posted December 14, 2006 Members Share Posted December 14, 2006 Organizsation Chart:. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bruce Swedien Posted December 14, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 14, 2006 Originally posted by franknputer Let me ask you this: do you find it more difficult to "affect" popular music this way? If you're working with synths, distorted guitars, etc how do you find room to apply more subtle techniques without them being overwhelmed? (I realize this is kind of a broad question, but I asked it anyway. ) Christopher..... Damn good question. My approach to "Affecting" the music that I am working on has little to do with finding room to apply the more subtle techniques. It has more to do with the philosopical approach to the sound of the project. The music always rules. Let the music "Speak" to you. If you learn how to listen to it the music will tell you if it wants a gated reverb OR NOT!!! Or whatever kind of 'Space' it wants to live in!We cannot win out over the personality of the music!! Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted December 14, 2006 Members Share Posted December 14, 2006 Originally posted by Lee Knight Hey! Now you're kissing his ass! Have you no shame? Bless you, you're right. In fact, everything you've ever said or done is right. Lee, you're the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted December 14, 2006 Moderators Share Posted December 14, 2006 Originally posted by UstadKhanAli Bless you, you're right. In fact, everything you've ever said or done is right. Lee, you're the best. Perhaps I went a little far with the sarcasm? Sorry about that. Oops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ultravibe Posted December 14, 2006 Members Share Posted December 14, 2006 Mr. Swedien, You tend to talk very conceptually, very abstractly, at least here on the boards - this is not a bad thing. In fact, I've re-read your replies to people here many times over because I love the way you make music sound like magic! this is something I think I have to get back to... Yet another question: do you talk to the artists in the studio the same way? Or are you more technical when describing the things you want to try. And here's my real kicker: After your wealth of experience, do the artists trust your judgement? What about producers? Music execs? Loving your threads*, Drew *message threads - not your clothes. Though I'm sure Bea makes sure you are dressed to the nines, I've never looked much beyond the sweet mics you are usually holding in photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bruce Swedien Posted December 14, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 14, 2006 Originally posted by ultravibe Mr. Swedien, You tend to talk very conceptually, very abstractly, at least here on the boards - this is not a bad thing. In fact, I've re-read your replies to people here many times over because I love the way you make music sound like magic! this is something I think I have to get back to... Yet another question: do you talk to the artists in the studio the same way? Or are you more technical when describing the things you want to try. And here's my real kicker: After your wealth of experience, do the artists trust your judgement? What about producers? Music execs? Loving your threads*, Drew *message threads - not your clothes. Though I'm sure Bea makes sure you are dressed to the nines, I've never looked much beyond the sweet mics you are usually holding in photos. Drew....Please call me Bruce. I can only talk one way. I speak what is on my mind....After my experience, do the artists trust my judgement? They seem to... What about producers? There are only one ot two producer's that I really care about. One's name is Quincy... I don't remember the names of the others....Music execs? Never!!!Music is the only true magic in life!!!Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Han Posted December 15, 2006 Members Share Posted December 15, 2006 On wednesday august 24 1960 it is hot and humid in Chicago. Count Basie's band with singer Joe Williams is playing in a club and after that, in the middle of the night, they go to the studio for a recording session.A young guy who calls himself Brucie the Viking is engineering and imagine the tools he's got, nothing like big boards and 24 track Studers. The mics are awesome though and so is this young engineer. One of the pioneers in stereo recording and mic placement.This young lad is kind of stubbern in a positive way and very inventive, he's not satisfied with the way recording is common and finds his way to better placements, better sounds and better sounding records, due to his skill and talents.46 years later, this young guy, who never got old, sends an email to a 63 year old guy in Holland, with an attachment of that recording from 1960 in MP3 that is supposed to sound not so good as a format.So I download this attachment and open it in Adobe Audition. The first thing that's exeptional is the picture I see, this is the opposite of what we hate so much in the loudness war, it's dynamics all over the place.Then I hit the button and the next thing that happens is that I fall out of my chair from amazement.I have never heard such a great sound coming from my small Altec Lansing computer speakers (with a small sub). The trumpets, the upright, piano, saxes and trombones, georgeous sound and an amazing stereo image. I am flabbergasted. The singer comes in, with only bass, piano and a little drums and a counter melody played by trombone. That is so freaking great, really amazing. This bone sound is coming from somewhere in the garden of my neighbours, never heard such a thing.Remember, this was done 46 years ago by great musicians, but also by a young guy in his mid twenties, who made a recording that is one of the best sounding ever. There was not such a thing as the internet, where everybody can read everyting about microphones, placements and where anyone can find everything he needs for making his recordings better. Bruce found it out the hard way, by stumble and fall.And what I like the most about Bruce is that he will answer all your questions, no matter how complicated, difficult or how silly they are.Unlike someone like Rudy van Gelder for example, who will take all his secrets with him in his coffin (what's the use?) , Bruce is sharing all of his knowledge and skill all over the internet.Kudos for Brucie the Viking, we love you man! (at least I do)And now I'll put this recording on an USB stick and I'm gonna listen to it on the big main monitors in the CR.Thank you so much Bruce, I'm honored, really! Peace, Han Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted December 15, 2006 Members Share Posted December 15, 2006 Originally posted by Lee Knight Perhaps I went a little far with the sarcasm? Sorry about that. Oops. No, Lee, not at all. In fact, I thought it was really quite funny!!! I was kissing your ass right back.... Seriously, not a problem at all!!!!!!!Now....any other asses to kiss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted December 15, 2006 Moderators Share Posted December 15, 2006 Originally posted by UstadKhanAli No, Lee, not at all. In fact, I thought it was really quite funny!!! I was kissing your ass right back.... Seriously, not a problem at all!!!!!!! Now....any other asses to kiss? Ahhhhhh! I get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted December 15, 2006 Members Share Posted December 15, 2006 I should have included compliments on your dashing good looks, beautiful wife, fine taste in European wines and sophisticated attire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PBBPaul Posted December 18, 2006 Members Share Posted December 18, 2006 Wow. I just finished listening to the Basie track. Thank you for the education, Bruce. This recording alone speaks volumes more than any technique manual ever could. The way the "phantom" trombone moves around the room without any loss is just incredible given the technology you used. I keep wanting to turn around and look for the guy playing over my right shoulder. What an incredible sounding room! The breadth of the mix is astounding for 1960 and Joe's voice seems to be coming down from the sky. As an aside, I saw the current version of The Count Basie Orchestra not too long ago and they are still a musical force to be reckoned with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudolf von Hagenwil Posted December 20, 2006 Members Share Posted December 20, 2006 All very nice information, but I'm wondering when the first forumite is asking what all is needed to achieve the quality Bruce is recording and mixing since fifty years. For example, I hear multiple stereo microphone recording technique in one and the same song as recorded/mixed by Bruce. In some songs, if not to say all, I hear six, seven or more different stereo and single channel techniques in one and the same song. Another thing. Desktop producers rathery don't have the room to record the quality we are talking about here. I mean recording every instrument in a shoe box with the idea to add some plugin 3D space is not what Bruce is talking about. In the desktop production age, are all the achievment made in stereo recording technique more or less a lost artform, simply because most folks can not afford it today? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ultravibe Posted December 20, 2006 Members Share Posted December 20, 2006 Originally posted by Angelo Clematide In the desktop production age, are all the achievment made in stereo recording technique more or less a lost artform, simply because most folks can not afford it today? Or don't want to afford it? I wonder if the quality of even "real" studio rooms has gone down because the money-men believe that any soundstage can be replicated digitally. I think even Bruce has alluded to the newer rooms not being as good as the old ones. (I'm paraphrasing from memory, so I may be way off base here...) I know I've spent some on room treatment, but not near as much as I've spent on other only semi-useful gear*. * "semi-useful gear" = "crap" Drew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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