MTV Before Michael Jackson

[meccajay]

Isn't BET owned by the same company as Mtv? Also, remember that Rap exploded because suburban white kids got into it. Had music remained segregated, I don't think rap or Thriller would have done nearly so well.

 

 

BET started ownership under Robert Johnson, who later sold it, then bought back controlling shares, while HBO and others own smaller percentages today. In between Johnson's involvement it may have been owned by Viacom(MTV), not sure.

 

As far as the crossover of rap, I would certainly credit MTV for most of this. Im thinking that, just like James Brown in the 60's. The white kids would have eventually found out about rap/hip-hop, because anything considered cool is eventally eaten up by the kids/masses, regardless of race, or where they have to go to get the 'coolness'. And if nothing else, rap was definately cool(note, was).

 

Just saying that if it was BET that was the only true supplier, it could have become the Viacom of today because of the explosion.

 

*edit* Oh and i think you're right about Thriller, it would have still been a classic album, just minus the ridiculously gawdy sales numbers for that era.

[gtrbass]

The dawn of MTV and the CD, coupled with the mass public hsyteria around Thriller, actually staved off the kind of recession in the music industry that we currently see. Record sales had begun to slow a bit in 1980/1981.

MTV's realization that a crossover with Hip Hop was legitimate was helped by the success of Run DMC. Prince's Purple Rain didn't hurt either. Those three artists were palatable with multi-ethic sensibilities.

It used to be that MTV had specialty shows and played music videos in about a 30/70 ratio. Now it's 95/5 ratio of non-music programming vs videos. It seems like even VH1 is that way.

[Ani]

Um, for those questioning how "Beat It" could have possibly been played first on MTV.... suggesting that it hadn't even came out until after "Thriller".... Both tunes were released simultaneously in the album cuts. Here's the line up from the album, Thriller.

 

1. Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'

2. Baby Be Mine

3. The Girl Is Mine

4. Thriller

5. Beat It

6. Billie Jean

7. Human Nature

8. P.Y.T. (Pretty Young Thing)

9. The Lady In My Life

 

EDIT: RANT :o:o Really rough day on the job yesterday... some of it dealing with racial issues.

 

Whenever people stop living in the past and rekindling the hatred that was em bred into generations upon generations, maybe future generations will be able to live in peace and harmony.

[UstadKhanAli]

:snax:

[Billster]

Is this thread about institutional racism? That stuff if the definition of "pernicious". Look it up and think about it.

 

Hey, Ani?

 

What does a 5000 word rant about your family experience have to do with MTV?

[tucktronix]

 

Is this thread about institutional racism? That stuff if the definition of "pernicious". Look it up and think about it. Hey, Ani? What does a 5000 word rant about your family experience have to do with MTV?

 

+1

 

That's what I was trying to understand. This thread was going in the right direction before that post.

[Super 8]

+1 That's what I was trying to understand. This thread was going in the right direction before that post.

I'm always late to the party. What'd I miss?

[offramp]

5,000 words.

[Ani]

I'm always late to the party. What'd I miss?

 

 

A pissy mood after a BAD day.... and.... not quite 5000 words; emphasis on BAD DAY though. Too much overtime and having to deal with too many attitudes from others working too much overtime. I had an ASSitude last night; sorry for the rant and sorry if I offended anyone that might have been in my aim of fire in shooting off my mouth.

 

Christmas Spirit??? Bah Humbug!!!

 

I thought this thing cut you off after about 2000 words.

[T.B.]

98.5% of the time I hang out in HCAG, but I saw the title of this thread and though it was interesting: Epic Records released Micheal Jackson album Thriller, Dec. 1, 1982. Jackson music video's started airing on MTV a little over a year after MTV's debut. Haven said that..



I haven't read the Ebony article yet, but I shall. I hope Ebony Magazine mentioned in their article it was Herbie Hancock (of all people) who initially complained he couldn't get his music video played on MTV. This nation, it's people, and music companies especially have always put musician's in a box for political, economic, and social concerns. The perfect example is how music has been organized and categorized in this thread. Being a child of segregation I can remember when whites dared and I mean dared their children to listen to Rock & Roll music or any other form of "Black music" down South or "Up South". Elvis, Buddy Holley, and other white performer's where accused of singing like "niggers" and being "nigger" lovers. It's these facts many would like to omit, ignore, or plead ignorance as the history of Rock & Roll has slowly over the decades has been made up in white face. So, I don't buy this silliness that "Black" artist/musicians via Motown had to market themselves to a greater audience to make themselves more palatable ...... honey white people have been "crossing over" a long, long befo' 1959. There's been a lot of cross pollination going on in this hemisphere period.

In all fairness, I've always thought that some of the powers that be created the idea of MTV in hopes of getting Rock & Roll music back on it's feet; which had been ignored/removed from radio play by Disco music. It was a marketing tool nothing more nothing less. "Rock and Roll music sales numbers have declined how can we bring them back up?" Since we categorize music genre's, someone came up with an idea of marketing Rock and Roll music. Instead of Black people hand-wring about why we couldn't get on MTV, we should have created our own. As always we never seem to get the bigger picture. Instead we waste energy, time, money and our brilliance begging to be apart of somebodies show. We give it up, they sale it back to use, and we get 10 cent out of ever dollar, if we're lucky.

Trina

[Billster]

I haven't read the Ebony article yet, but I shall . I hope Ebony Magazine mentioned in their article it was Herbie Hancock (of all people) who initially complained he couldn't get his music video played on MTV. This nation, it's people, and music companies especially have always put musician's in a box for political, economic, and social concerns. The perfect example is how music has been organized and categorized in this thread. Trina

 

 

I haven't read the article yet either, but I think in Herbie's instance MTV didn't want anything to do with a "jazz" artist, despite the fact that Rockit (which is probably what you are referring to) and a lot of his other music draws heavily on funk, R&B, and hip-hop elements. The man's a legend for a reason. But probably a victim of the "need" for categorizing everything and never the twain shall meet. I don't think it's race - I think it's genre-ism in his case.

[meccajay]

Genre-ism indeed Billster!

MTV's claim was they were holding fast to a "Rock" format, not a white format. After all, Tina Turner's music had no problem being played.

[Super 8]

After all, Tina Turner's music had no problem being played.

 

 

Tina came after MJ, Herbie, and Prince.

[meccajay]

Tina did, but all 3 before her had to protest to get played.

[franknputer]

You also have to remember, though, that Tina was largely off the radar in '81 anyway. Private Dancer wasn't until 1984.

[Billster]

And Private Dancer was a "comeback" album with all-stars like Mark Knopfler, Jeff Beck, so on and so forth.

[audioicon]

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_14_110/ai_n16807343 Here's an interesting article from Jet Magazine about MTV's history of playing black artists. (Michael Jackson wasn't the first black artist to be played, BTW.)

 

 

I did not say or read anyone say Micheal Jackson was the first Black Artist played on MTV. But Michael Jackson broke down the "genre/racial barrier" of MTV and was one of the main factor in the proliferation of what use to be "MTV" and he deserves all the credit for that.

 

AI

[franknputer]

Well, I disagree. As has been pointed out, there were already black artists being played in regular rotation, so the "racial barrier" at MTV, if there was one (see the comments about a genre barrier, which was quite standard in radio & the rest of the industry at the time) was already breaking, and the artists before him deserve credit too.

[Jeff da Weasel]

Reading the Ebony Article, I wasn't suprised that MTV wouldn't play black artist before Thriller.

 

[Gordon Gekko]

Well, I disagree. As has been pointed out, there were already black artists being played in regular rotation, so the "racial barrier" at MTV, if there was one (see the comments about a genre barrier, which was quite standard in radio & the rest of the industry at the time) was already breaking, and the artists before him deserve credit too.

wow... seems you guys really have a problem admitting their was/is racism at MTV. this genre crap is just that ...crap. I saw the playlist posted for early MTV
things like Blondie's Rapture don't really fit in a "genre with April Wine yet they were playing both. Lee Ritenour (was so Jazz he named his son Wesley after Wes Montgomery) yet they couldn't find a place for Herbie Hancock
PLEASEEEEE!!!!!:rolleyes:

[Jeff da Weasel]

wow... seems you guys really have a problem admitting their was/is racism at MTV.

 

 

There's racism everywhere. As a white rock artist, I'd have trouble getting played on MTV today.

 

But you missed the real point: if there was more money to be made on black artists at that time period, MTV would have been all over it. If you're in a position to be exploited, it doesn't matter what race you are... it's gonna happen.

[Gordon Gekko]

There's racism everywhere. As a white rock artist, I'd have trouble getting played on MTV today.

But you missed the real point: if there was more money to be made on black artists at that time period, MTV would have been all over it. If you're in a position to be exploited, it doesn't matter what race you are... it's gonna happen.[/quote

OK... maybe you should ask Clive Davis if there was money to be made off black artists during this period. One of the acts he signed EW&F were huge during this
time; their album "Raise" yielded a grammy and went double platinum, yet MTV didn't play them til they hooked up with Phil Collins. True enough, R&B was going thru changes in a post disco/pre hip hop world but MTV went with a ton of UNPROVEN artists that were never heard from again. Remember "Fishheads" roly
poly fishheads eat them up yummmm!!!??

[tucktronix]

But you missed the real point: if there was more money to be made on black artists at that time period, MTV would have been all over it. If you're in a position to be exploited, it doesn't matter what race you are... it's gonna happen.

 

 

If that was really the case, then quite a few black artists would have been seen on MTV before Michael Jackson. There WERE quite a few multi-platinum selling black artists before MJ made the MTV ranks.

[Jeff da Weasel]

So you really think that there was a conscious and concerted effort by MTV to suppress black music in the channel's early years for reasons purely of race, money be damned?

[tucktronix]

 

So you really think that there was a conscious and concerted effort by MTV to suppress black music in the channel's early years for reasons purely of race, money be damned?

 

 

Just trying to understand your previous post about the money factor. You implied that black artists weren't bankable during that time period, and that was the reason behind the avoidance. Are you're saying that MJ, Lionel Ritchie, The Commodores, Earth, Wind & Fire and Stevie Wonder weren't bankable artists:confused: