Members tommy_is_here Posted November 4, 2008 Members Share Posted November 4, 2008 So, I'm having a debate with a friend right now. He's interested in buying a red 1966 ES-335, which is in excellent condition, selling for about $3500. That makes this guitar 42 years old, and it doesn't look like a 42 year old guitar. Frets are in good shape, neck looks good, all original parts, etc. The guitar is a real player, sounds very musical, and does indeed beat the pants tonally off of recent Gibson custom shop semi hollowbodies, which also sell for about the same amount. (we compared them side by side in a shoot off) We were arguing over long term value. He believes that this guitar in just a couple more years may be worth 2x as much as it is now. Thoughts? Cheers,Tommy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tweedledee Posted November 4, 2008 Members Share Posted November 4, 2008 Probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tommy_is_here Posted November 4, 2008 Author Members Share Posted November 4, 2008 Why is that? B/c a cherry ES-335 from the 60's has such mythic status? How long do you think it would take for it to double in value? Also, just how rare are 60's 335s that are in good shape? Cheers,Tommy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Roy Brooks Posted November 4, 2008 Members Share Posted November 4, 2008 Most of the 1966 and 1967 ES-335s I have seen for sale have been quite a bit more than $3500, more like $6000 to $7500 or so. And as long as your guitar stays in good playable condition it will continue to rise in value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tweedledee Posted November 4, 2008 Members Share Posted November 4, 2008 Why is that? B/c a cherry ES-335 from the 60's has such mythic status? How long do you think it would take for it to double in value?Also, just how rare are 60's 335s that are in good shape?Cheers,Tommy Sure, it's due in part to the "mythic status", but it's also a function of how few of them are available. It's impossible to know how long it would take to double in value. If the economy continues on its present course, it's possible that vintage guitar values could become stagnant so it might take quite a while. Remember, the "value" of a guitar is only as much as someone is willing to pay for it. Even if every appraiser you go to in a few years tells you it's worth $10k, if you can't find a buyer at that price it's not "worth" that much. And as Roy Brooks said, $3500 for a 1966 ES-335 in great shape that is completely original is suspiciously below market value. Are you sure there hasn't been a neck repair or anything like that? If I came across a '66 335 in that shape that was all original and marked at $3500, I would sell whatever I needed to in order to buy it. Seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ten56gibby Posted November 4, 2008 Members Share Posted November 4, 2008 You should have it appraised by the folks at Gruhn.com - I know they'd try to sell that 335 for $300,000. Seriously. Just go check out their inventory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tommy_is_here Posted November 4, 2008 Author Members Share Posted November 4, 2008 Sure, it's due in part to the "mythic status", but it's also a function of how few of them are available. It's impossible to know how long it would take to double in value. If the economy continues on its present course, it's possible that vintage guitar values could become stagnant so it might take quite a while. Remember, the "value" of a guitar is only as much as someone is willing to pay for it. Even if every appraiser you go to in a few years tells you it's worth $10k, if you can't find a buyer at that price it's not "worth" that much.And as Roy Brooks said, $3500 for a 1966 ES-335 in great shape that is completely original is suspiciously below market value. Are you sure there hasn't been a neck repair or anything like that? If I came across a '66 335 in that shape that was all original and marked at $3500, I would sell whatever I needed to in order to buy it. Seriously. Good point; I'll have my buddy check into that. I'm no vintage guy, so really can't say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Josh S Posted November 4, 2008 Members Share Posted November 4, 2008 I second that the price is REALLY low. Have that {censored} checked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tommy_is_here Posted November 4, 2008 Author Members Share Posted November 4, 2008 Any suggestions on how to check it out? I'm no expert, and my friend is less of an expert, so its like 'dumb and dumber' The guy who's selling it has no info. on the history of the guitar. He is willing to sell it and offer a refund if we don't want to keep it after a few days. There was one things which seemed a little strange - its a bolt on guitar right? Well the cherry stain was really different on the back of the neck compared to on the main body. I chalked it up initially to be different wood, but I wonder if its possible that the neck was replaced at some point. Perhaps I just take it to a trusted local guitar tech who'd probably have a better idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jimlp Posted November 4, 2008 Members Share Posted November 4, 2008 Any suggestions on how to check it out? I'm no expert, and my friend is less of an expert, so its like 'dumb and dumber' The guy who's selling it has no info. on the history of the guitar. He is willing to sell it and offer a refund if we don't want to keep it after a few days. There was one things which seemed a little strange - its a bolt on guitar right? Well the cherry stain was really different on the back of the neck compared to on the main body. I chalked it up initially to be different wood, but I wonder if its possible that the neck was replaced at some point. Perhaps I just take it to a trusted local guitar tech who'd probably have a better idea? It should be a set neck not a bolt on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaleH Posted November 4, 2008 Members Share Posted November 4, 2008 Bolt on?? Bonk him with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tommy_is_here Posted November 4, 2008 Author Members Share Posted November 4, 2008 duh - sorry that's what I meant - set neck. But a set neck can still be replaced, right? I recall playing it, and although it felt and played lovely, I was wondering if the neck had not been replaced b/c the colors were off from the body and the neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ew_ Posted November 4, 2008 Members Share Posted November 4, 2008 335s aren't bolt on, and never have been. As far as prices go, $50k was considered outrageous for a '59 LP just eight years ago. Try finding a good one these days for under 5x that... ew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ew_ Posted November 4, 2008 Members Share Posted November 4, 2008 As far as the difference in color goes- it could be normal. Your sweat, etc.'s going to take a toll on a guitar neck after a while. ew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaleH Posted November 4, 2008 Members Share Posted November 4, 2008 Man you need a pro to look at that guitar. Or put some good pics up here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tommy_is_here Posted November 4, 2008 Author Members Share Posted November 4, 2008 Yeah, may take it to a pro to have a lookover. That makes sense. Well, I'll let you folks know what I find out. Cheers,Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members headstash Posted November 4, 2008 Members Share Posted November 4, 2008 I'm thinking the vintage guitar market is about to hit the {censored}ter. We're looking at maybe the worst recession in 60 years? The guitar could easily lose value in the next 3-5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tommy_is_here Posted November 4, 2008 Author Members Share Posted November 4, 2008 I suppose it does come down to supply and demand. The supply side is definitely constrained, and will only get more so, so in the long run, it should raise value. However, headstash makes a good point about demand - the economy may strongly curb demand, and thus drop prices in the next few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GAS Man Posted November 4, 2008 Members Share Posted November 4, 2008 So, I'm having a debate with a friend right now. He's interested in buying a red 1966 ES-335, which is in excellent condition, selling for about $3500. That makes this guitar 42 years old, and it doesn't look like a 42 year old guitar. Frets are in good shape, neck looks good, all original parts, etc.The guitar is a real player, sounds very musical, and does indeed beat the pants tonally off of recent Gibson custom shop semi hollowbodies, which also sell for about the same amount. (we compared them side by side in a shoot off)We were arguing over long term value. He believes that this guitar in just a couple more years may be worth 2x as much as it is now.Thoughts?Cheers,Tommy No, I think that's crazy BUT!!!! it will continue to grow in value. Guitars of the 60s have a mystic aura that will only continue to grow. The only question will be the rate of growth in value. Collectibles are a commodity, but I think they tend to appreciate more so in times of inflation and prosperity more so than in times of recession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jtr654 Posted November 4, 2008 Members Share Posted November 4, 2008 It's worth that and will probably continue to go up in price. They aren't making any more 66 335 and with all the mods ect that go on an original is a +. The 335 is one of the few Classics designs that everyone wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jtr654 Posted November 4, 2008 Members Share Posted November 4, 2008 It's worth that and will probably continue to go up in price. They aren't making any more 66 335 and with all the mods ect that go on an original is a +. The 335 is one of the few Classics designs that everyone wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jtr654 Posted November 4, 2008 Members Share Posted November 4, 2008 It's worth that and will probably continue to go up in price. They aren't making any more 66 335 and with all the mods ect that go on an original is a +. The 335 is one of the few Classics designs that everyone wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jtr654 Posted November 4, 2008 Members Share Posted November 4, 2008 Sorry about the multi replies had a glitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mc5nrg Posted November 4, 2008 Members Share Posted November 4, 2008 The first question that comes to mind is how do you guys know what you are looking at ? Gibson serial numbers from the 60s and 70s are not always reliable for dating and were often reused. So construction details and research into differences over time is important. Consult sources like the Duchossoir ID books and the provide.net vintage guitar site. The air is pretty much escaping from the value of vintage or old/used guitars currently which saw a bubble of there own over the past few years. If the guitar is what it is claimed to be it probably is a pretty good deal and will at least hold its value. However vintage guitars are not liquid assets- perhaps one reason for the "bargain" price is the owner hasn't found a buyer. Look for vintage guitars to be coming out of the woodwork if the recession is as severe as some predict. If it turns into another great depression, look out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Roy Brooks Posted November 4, 2008 Members Share Posted November 4, 2008 Although most mid-sixties ES-335s sell for quite a bit more than $3500 it is not inconceivable for somebody to sell one for considerably less than the market value just because he may just need the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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