Members rangerkarlos Posted August 2, 2015 Members Share Posted August 2, 2015 I know the initial response is 'add subs'. I know that. Indulge me. Situation- three piece, lowish volume weekend bar band. Rock, rockabilly, surf, old school C&W, R&B... 25+ years gigging. I use a DRRI at pretty low settings, volume at 2-4 max. Bass player has one of those 35 lb. 1x12 wonders from GK. usually we just run vox through the mains and mons. I own a set of K10s and a set of K12s. Recently had an outdoor gig, not big-patio deal and I threw a SM57 on my amp and lined out the bass amp through the K12s. the result (duh) was a better overall balance, and I was able to hear my amp (which is already tilted at my head) better with a little feed into the monitors- drummer appreciates that too. Spreading out the bass was wonderful. My question is: At these modest levels (which seem to be the preferred levels our gigs look for) will the k12s be sufficient? Add a little kick? snare/hh? Would you use the Deep setting? Wil the Deep setting compromise the vox at all? btw using a Mackie 808 powered box, line out to K12s, passive wedges, everyone gets the same mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted August 2, 2015 Members Share Posted August 2, 2015 You can run whatever you want. But if it contains any frequencies below 80 Hz you will run out of gas 10x faster than if it didn't. So in "classic rock" style the frequencies below 80 Hz are a lot less important than most people think. So cut them off using HP filters in your mixer. Using the the deep setting will use up the speaker's power much more quickly than if you don't. If it leaves you enough power then fine, use it. The basic rule with anything to do with sound reproduction is: if it sounds fine to you then use it. If it doesn't then you need to intervene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rangerkarlos Posted August 2, 2015 Author Members Share Posted August 2, 2015 Thanks Don. We seem to have plenty of headroom for our little rig and the venues we book. Even going in trying to throttle back, we often get the 'turn it down a notch' signal. That didn't happen last gig and I suspect it was due to a more balanced presentation. I have couple small outdoor gigs next weekend. I'll report back on the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted August 2, 2015 Members Share Posted August 2, 2015 If you put something through your K12 it doesn't like, it will let you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted August 3, 2015 CMS Author Share Posted August 3, 2015 Even going in trying to throttle back, we often get the 'turn it down a notch' signal. That didn't happen last gig and I suspect it was due to a more balanced presentation. There's a midrange band that seems to bother a lot of people. Get too much distortion/volume there and you'll get the "ur too darn loud" sign all the time. It seems to be in the 4-7K area. I suspect that a lot of us have some hearing loss there and may tend to emphasize it in our attempts to balance the mix. It also happens to be where a lot of instruments overlap, so it gets "busy" quite easily. I've found that bands with a knack for not stepping all over each others' instruments can get away with quite a loud mix that doesn't offend most ears/brains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mike M Posted August 3, 2015 Members Share Posted August 3, 2015 Your concept of PA application seems quite similar to one of the bands I played with a few years back: The bandleader used a Mackie mixer with powered tops/monitors and monitors (12's), kept things down on stage. All sounded fine. I even provided the rig for a few of the band's performances (during multi-band festivals) and the leader always told me: "we don't need much...". In most cases if the players on stage are aware of their own place in the mix then a loud stage is not needed. If you (and your clients) are pleased with your mix, then keep things simple. Do not (as many tend to do) fall into the trap of: 'it sounds great, now, can I also mic my instrument??". It is my experience that bands seem to overthink their PA needs and keep adding gear and time to their setup. Performing is fun but adding gear/mixes/etc. will significantly add to the set up and breakdown times of a gig...thus becoming "un"fun in no time. Your first load in / out in the rain with all of that new gear will prove this. If it ain't broke, don't fix it is what I'd do. Mike M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rangerkarlos Posted August 4, 2015 Author Members Share Posted August 4, 2015 As I see it, it's a simple matter of two or three more mics and a DL from the bass (and some initial tweaking). i gotta say, the HC responses are much more measured than what I'm getting at TGP. over there I'm foolish to even think about this. OK, that's an exaggeration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted August 5, 2015 Members Share Posted August 5, 2015 I've put everything (including kick) through a pair of 310a's with no subs in smaller rooms. They do have a built-in HPF (as do most modern powered tops) so as long as you don't try to boost the lows no prob . The 310a's in particular will get loud enough to shake themselves apart so I do have to snug up the screws once in a while if run loud outdoors (even with subs in a large park). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rangerkarlos Posted August 9, 2015 Author Members Share Posted August 9, 2015 I have couple small outdoor gigs next weekend. I'll report back on the results. Let's get this out of the way- subs would be nice. No doubt about it. Maybe some day. After all she can't live forever, right? .png' alt='16x16_smiley-wink.png.ac1518ec0dabe458f31c1303ed9ec588.png' alt='smiley-wink'>.png'> However, a set of K12s handled our three piece weekend warrior needs just fine. 3 vocs, SM57 on my amp, DL Bass amp, Audix F14 on kick and an Audix i5 on the snare/hh. To be sure, no chest thump- I wasn't looking for that. I actually don't enjoy that when I see bands- it drives me away. Rather the goal to augment the stage sound was met with ease. The K12s took it all in stride. I'm encouraged by this balanced approach- absolutely no volume complaints. A little guitar into the monitor no doubt kept the stage volume down, while putting a bit of everything in the mains was more pleasing to the ear out front. I stepped out front wireless, as well as asking several people during break and was assured everything sounded good. Realizing I just typed out my version of well known stuff. Thanks everyone for your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted August 11, 2015 CMS Author Share Posted August 11, 2015 Realizing I just typed out my version of well known stuff. It's always heartening to see the light flicker on! Glad it worked out for you. It's often surprising when you don't try to do more than the rig is capable of, and just let it work within its abilities. Not much different than how people work...don't push them too hard, and they'll surprise you with good production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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