Members John Sayers Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 Having seen Craig's post about going back to gear I thought I'd ask the alternative question. I've recently had a request for a studio design with NO booths - one big room - no more multi overdubs etc - just a live band - all in. your thoughts ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Han Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 I've been doing this the last 25 years, recording bands all together in one big room. Sure one can redo his vocals or play his solo in an overdub, but the band gets recorded in one take to two inch tape. I don't believe there's a better way to make music, this is how it was done 30, 40, 50, 60 years and longer ago and it still is the best way to get a groove. Bleed is not an issue of you know your mics and how to use them, period. There's one disadvantage though, people must be able to play their instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blackpig Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 I second that. Some of the best recordings of Irish traditional music were all done in one take in the 60s and 70s. I plan to record some of my own stuff in the near future and I'll be enlisting one or two friends to help me with fiddle and pipes and so on. For ensemble stuff I'm going to record everybody at once. I might even do a setup with just two mics if I can get a decent room. Some of the older guys are happier to record that way as well - it just feels more natural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Magpel Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 Love it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members coyote-1 Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 I like to record direct to 2-track. My recordings ain't going to be released by Polygram anytime soon, so all I want is a good document of what went down on a particular evening. As long as everything's clearly audible and pretty well balanced and the overall sound is good, I'm happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 Some stuff, like bass/drums/guitar or bass/drums and acoustic guitar/vocals I cut live in the same room with bleed, etc. Often, it's faster and better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted January 31, 2007 Moderators Share Posted January 31, 2007 I recorded a "jam band" where all the amps were isolated but everyone was huddled around the drummer wearing phones. The singer/guitarist sang into a 58 which we did replace later. There were no overdubbed solos. If guitar 1 soloed, guitar 2 and the piano B3 comped accordingly. Kind 'o like I've done for years onstage. It came out great. Strangely they opted to use a click, against my better judgement, but it worked out fine there too. We just fixed any clams stealling from the previous take. Except for the vocals, it was 100% live and it sound great. (99% actually as we overdubbed a banjo). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GY Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 Leakage is your friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JimAtLightspeed Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 My recordings ain't going to be released by Polygram anytime soon, Polygram ceased to exist when it got "absorbed by the collective" (aka Universal Music) back in 1999, so you're probably right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EccentRick Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 There's one disadvantage though, people must be able to play their instrument. In my book (I really don't have a book), that's a distinct and crucial advantage! Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 Leakage is your friend. Where microphones are concerned, I couldn't agree more!!! I never really strayed away from cutting certain things live. I love recording drums with at least one other instrument live with leakage between the two instruments. Just anything to try and get some cohesion going. If two instruments, that's fine too, but at least one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members coyote-1 Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 Well now - I guess I just let everyone know how closely I follow events in the entertainment industry. Polygram ceased to exist when it got "absorbed by the collective" (aka Universal Music) back in 1999, so you're probably right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 I guess I'm not "edging back" to recording live in one room since I really never stopped. It was nice to record at Han's place and work with somebody else who "gets it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John Sayers Posted January 31, 2007 Author Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 That's the reaction I expected. I really don't think it's about booths etc - it's about the feel you get when everyone plays together and see each other eye to eye be that in one room or in booths. There is another aspect that I believe goes hand in hand with a live band recording and that's the monitors. One thing I learnt in the 70s is that when a band plays together loud in a studio, and I mean LOUD, it's a complete downer if they walk into the control room and the engineer plays back their work at 85db on a pair of nearfields. I believe the control room should be as loud as the band - it's part of the total vibe IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 I was thinking of recording several songs off my next record live. The other songs will be recorded to a click track. I think it depends on the genre and the sound you want. I plan on using loops for some songs and other sequenced tracks so those songs would be better done via overdubbing I think. We`ll see... Interest comments though from everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 This is a very timely question, as we're working on the April issue of EQ and it revolves around getting a live sound in the studio. Not just the stuff Lee has talked about in the past, but why it's so important to hone an act live before going into the studio...the fact that you've posted this, and the responses, makes me optimistic that the issue is going to go over really well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Han Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 That's the reaction I expected. I really don't think it's about booths etc - it's about the feel you get when everyone plays together and see each other eye to eye be that in one room or in booths. There is another aspect that I believe goes hand in hand with a live band recording and that's the monitors. One thing I learnt in the 70s is that when a band plays together loud in a studio, and I mean LOUD, it's a complete downer if they walk into the control room and the engineer plays back their work at 85db on a pair of nearfields. I believe the control room should be as loud as the band - it's part of the total vibe IMHO. John, I have a huge pair of hi end hi fi monitors in the tracking room with a 2*135 wtt amp. These speakers sound fantastic and go very loud. I can feed them from the board by pushing the 'Studio Monitor' button, which unswitchs itself when you push the red light button. I stay in the CR and listen at 85dBA while the band can hear themselves at 110 dBA. That's a real joy because I won't get fatigue and the band doesn't have to leave the tracking room as well. Besides that, if you kow your mics and know how to place them, bleed is really a joke. I can't understand why students at SAE, Full Sail etc learn to avoid bleed in any way at any chance. I get to meet students who tell me things like: you can't do that and if I ask them why they answer: 'because I've learned you'll end up with a nasty sound from the bleed'. Then I grab a CD from a big band recording I did and play this for them, 26 persons, all at once and a sound they've never heard and never will get with their methods they've learned at school. I mean, ask Bruce Swedien how he did it round 1960, all at once baby! There are different ways to record music, depends on the style, but jaz, blues, soul and that kind should be recorded as a band at once in one room. I even have a 12m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John Sayers Posted January 31, 2007 Author Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 Yeah - I made many recordings all in one room throughout the 60s and 70s. But it does have it's drawbacks especially if you had a 6 piece string section ( 4 violins, viola and cello) together with brass and saxes etc. We soon moved to overdubing the strings, plus you could double track them to make them fuller. It was the two guitars, keys, bass and drums that really benefitted by being all-in. It was the move to the drier sound of the 70s that created the booths. here's the layout of a regular session in the 60s tha I worked on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 This is a very timely question, as we're working on the April issue of EQ and it revolves around getting a live sound in the studio. Not just the stuff Lee has talked about in the past, but why it's so important to hone an act live before going into the studio...the fact that you've posted this, and the responses, makes me optimistic that the issue is going to go over really well! Hopefully so. Fighting this in part is, I suspect, home studios. Not that people in home studios are intrinsically opposed to cutting things live, but that they may not have the space to do it!!!! Obviously, there's other factors as well, but I just happened to think of this one. But I also think that many realize that there's a certain energy and freshness and vibe that cannot be quantified, and can only be obtained when one does cut instruments live, all in the same room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philbo Posted February 1, 2007 Members Share Posted February 1, 2007 I do it, and have done it, for everything I ever recorded. One does need to learn to be quiet while tracking, but that's a virtue for anywhere, control room or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted February 1, 2007 Members Share Posted February 1, 2007 One does need to learn to be quiet while tracking, Harrrrumph! Ask Han how quiet we were when we tracked live at his place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Antman261 Posted February 1, 2007 Members Share Posted February 1, 2007 It depends on the musicians, the band, and the musical context, but sometimes it can work out great...and sometimes not so great. Back in the day me and my band went to a mates house to home-record a demo. He had me (drums) and the bassist lay down our parts live together. Now, to be blunt, we blew. We were the worst rhythm section ever. The timing was shocking and so of course the overdubb'd guitars didn't have a leg to stand up on. The tightest track we did was the only one we cut with the full band live - including vocals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chipmcdonald Posted February 2, 2007 Members Share Posted February 2, 2007 Everytime I see this picture: ... it makes me think.... There's Eddie with a 100 watt Super Lead and Michael Anthony with an SVT - basically setup right next to Alex. Thing is, though.... The bass is on the floor tom side, and the guitar on the high hat side.... Literally insane Eddie fans spend an insane amount of energy trying to get the VH1/VH2 guitar sound - but a lot of that had to have been coming through the drum mics as ambience... Regardless, there had to have been a LOT of bleed...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jalfredprufrock Posted February 2, 2007 Members Share Posted February 2, 2007 We don't even record our drummer's toms and overheads on the same take. Everything's seperated. And I usually end up doing lots of instrumentation on the record that we simply can't pull off w/ four guys live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted February 2, 2007 Members Share Posted February 2, 2007 I sort of do a variation on the "recording live" theme. Anyone who's seen my live act knows I basically just do a live mix of rhythm tracks and loops with live overdubs of guitar, voice, and various other instruments (it just seems too weird to include "harmonica" in that sentence). In the studio, I basically do the same thing, although of course I have the option to double things, move parts around, etc. if needed. What I find is that this preserves the "live" vibe to a great extent -- enough so that it creeps into the recordings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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