Members DaveAronow Posted November 29, 2009 Members Share Posted November 29, 2009 Is there an instrument that maximizes the realms of human musical expression? Or is it simply a function of an expressive musician maximizing the use of a particular instrument he personally has an affinity for. IE, can ANY instrument be as musically expressive as any other, or is one specific type of instrument more inherently capable of providing the artist with a means for deeper expression than another. Post examples if you'd like, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jjpistols Posted November 29, 2009 Members Share Posted November 29, 2009 voice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kuz929 Posted November 29, 2009 Members Share Posted November 29, 2009 I think it has to be. think about it. how many different sounds can you get out of the same instrument? every guitar (minus a few minor changes here and there) is the same. magnetic pickups, strings and wood. Think about how many insanely different sounds have been made famous from the one instrument. Pat Metheney and Dimebag play the same instrument. Do they sound the same? not even a little bit. also think about how many different products have been made to make the guitar more expressive. Thousands of different stompboxes, amps and modeling processors all add to the expressiveness of the guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RaVenCAD Posted November 29, 2009 Members Share Posted November 29, 2009 I've always felt that strings in general were the most expressive, but piano can hang in there too.. But then, a hot sax is good too. In the end, I think it's less about the instrument you choose than it is about what you do with it. No, I don't think a kazoo is going to hang with a violin.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaveAronow Posted November 29, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 29, 2009 voice Well, yeah, I should have excluded voice from the choices. I agree but I am more thinking in terms of musical instruments other than the human voice. Personally If you took away the ability for the voice to sing lyrics and vovel and consonant sounds, and just gave it a voicelike 'tone", I think a violin would beat it all to hell, but this is just my opinion based on what my ears have heard. A great voice in all its full glory is hard if not impossible to beat by ANY instrument, so I am wondering about instruments other than voice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaveAronow Posted November 29, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 29, 2009 I've always felt that strings in general were the most expressive, but piano can hang in there too.. But then, a hot sax is good too. In the end, I think it's less about the instrument you choose than it is about what you do with it. No, I don't think a kazoo is going to hang with a violin.. It is funny becuase I went through this exact progression when I was thinking of this thread. I thought personally a violin is hard to beat, and then thought, well, you get a complete orchestra "in a box" in one instrument with a piano, Ive heard some mindblowing sax before, Kenny G is one of the most expressive instrumentalists I have ever heard in all my years, although the very nature of his pure expressiveness comes off as perfect and therefore sterile to me which doesnt resonate well with me or spark any emotion or any interst in his music at all TO ME, but I can definitely hear exactly what it is that his vision of expression is, as far as what he personally wants to say with the instrument. There are very few on Earth more expressive than him. I just cant listen to it for more than a few minutes, so, yeah, the sax too can be as expressive as any other instrument. And then I thought, well, some freak of nature could probably even make a kazoo sound great, and then changed my mind on that one, NOT, so I have always kind of gone around and around with this topic in my head from thinking NOTHING can hang with a violin, to thinking sometime a piano can be as expressive, and then sometimes I hear mind blowing guitar pieces as far as expression goes, and then conclude that it is all about the player and how well he melds with his particular instrument what ever it may be..... kazoos excluded. I might never really answer this question for myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vintage55 Posted November 29, 2009 Members Share Posted November 29, 2009 I think they're all expressive, in their own way...including the human voice. Just different. And that's a good thing...more ways to express the emotions of music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kuz929 Posted November 29, 2009 Members Share Posted November 29, 2009 my thing is... every violin player will play the instrument in the same way. they will bow the strings and get that sweet violin sound. every violin virtuoso will sound very similar, because a violin can only make one sound... the sound of a violin a guitar can be played in tons of different ways, and can make infinitely more sounds than a violin. I guess my definition of "expressive instrument" comes down to the fact that everyone who plays a guitar will play it drastically differently. the combination of effects, touch and amp can give so many different sounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soundcreation Posted November 29, 2009 Members Share Posted November 29, 2009 I would agree that electric guitar is the most versatile instrument ever created that still retains a natural unique sound. ie...keyboard/synths are capable of more sounds but they don't play out in a natural way. Violin's will always sound like violins..piano piano and so on...but a guitar has so many voices (especially adding in pedals) that are so different I personally think it's not even close aside from voice. In my opinion of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jjpistols Posted November 29, 2009 Members Share Posted November 29, 2009 Well, yeah, I should have excluded voice from the choices. I agree but I am more thinking in terms of musical instruments other than the human voice. Personally If you took away the ability for the voice to sing lyrics and vovel and consonant sounds, and just gave it a voicelike 'tone", I think a violin would beat it all to hell, but this is just my opinion based on what my ears have heard. A great voice in all its full glory is hard if not impossible to beat by ANY instrument, so I am wondering about instruments other than voice. there is so much vocal music that is not language based it would blow your mind -- nearly every living person since the dawn of time has had the instrument since the day they were born lyrics, vowels and consonants ain't {censored}, dude tibetan/tuvan throat singing to mel torme - it's {censored}in amazing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Norcal_GIT_r Posted November 29, 2009 Members Share Posted November 29, 2009 For me it is.I'm sure players of other instruments will disagree with me.I can't sing well so I have to say no to the voice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaveAronow Posted November 29, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 29, 2009 my thing is... every violin player will play the instrument in the same way. they will bow the strings and get that sweet violin sound. every violin virtuoso will sound very similar, because a violin can only make one sound... the sound of a violina guitar can be played in tons of different ways, and can make infinitely more sounds than a violin. I guess my definition of "expressive instrument" comes down to the fact that everyone who plays a guitar will play it drastically differently. the combination of effects, touch and amp can give so many different sounds Being a violinist for years(not good, an admitted hack) and listening to and adoring violin music for decades, I have to completely dissagree with you. No two violins sound the same. Each one is as distinct and different than individual human voices, and no two players sound the same. When you watch an orchestra and you see all the bows going in the same way, what appears to be everyone using similar vibrato as far as the looks of it on the surface, and other visual factors, orchestras work like hell to try to get everyone in synch because the natural tendencies of individuals would have everyone doing their own thing and being completely NOT in synch. Usually the first chair violinist will double check to make sure the music is marked so that all the questionable times for upbows and downbows are clear so everyone will be in synch, otherwise you would have bow direction chaos with bows going to and frow, toupes being lifted off, eyes being poked out, it would be pure maddness. Granted, the longer a player plays, the more obvios the decisions of upbowing, down bowing, ar how many notes per bow, and even what part of the bow to use at what times, but all these things are definitely NOT set in stone and each player will naturally do things a little differently than others unless some effort is made to synchronize everyone. This is an extremely complicated instrument for how simple it looks and is why it can take months for even accomplished musicians on other instruments to even get a sound out of it that doeasnt sound like someone trying to put out a flaming cat by beating it with a seagull. No two players play alike, and no two teachers teach alike. Individually each violin player is also as distinct in his personal "tone" or sound that he gets out of a violin as human voices are from each other. I used to think all violins sounded the same. They all sounded like violins. The more I listened to masters, and the more I listened to different individual instruments as the years went by, the more I was able to hear the different subtlties and nuances from one player to an other and from one instrument to another. I submit that each individual violin is distinct from another, and each player is so disting from another, that even the greatest violinists in the worl, Jascha Heifetz for example, cant make one violin sound like another violin, or he can never hide the fact that he is Jascha Heifetz. He could never sound like Fritz Kreisler for example no matter how hard he tried. He would always sound like Heifets impersonating Kreisler. Granted, some sets of violins will sound alot more siliar for other sets of violins and some players will souns more similar than others, but there is still the complete distinction between any two playersw or instruments if you listen long enough to develop the ear for the nuances. I hate the fact that this makes me sound like a snob or elitist because I dont want to be "that guy", so I guess an analogy to help explain it would be like when a beginning guitar player first starts listening to electric guitar and playing, for alot of these people, they all sounded similar, and maybe they couldnt tell the difference between a strat or a Tele, or between a single coil verses a humbucher,,, they just sort of all sounded like electric guitars, until as the years went by, the ears gained the ability to hear the differences with experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaveAronow Posted November 29, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 29, 2009 there is so much vocal music that is not language based it would blow your mind -- nearly every living person since the dawn of time has had the instrument since the day they were bornlyrics, vowels and consonants ain't {censored}, dudetibetan/tuvan throat singing to mel torme - it's {censored}in amazing I completely agree the human voice is the most amazing expressive "instrument" there is which is why I tended to exclude it or to restrict the things that kake it expressive to try to level the playing field with the other non human instruments, otherwise, game over. Id love to check out some of the tibetan throat singing you are talking about. Sounds very intersting. You mean like Gregorian chants or something different? And I dig the {censored} out of Mel, and all the other dudes and dudettes from his era. I grew up listening to this music. My dad was a jazz trumpet player in the Third Army Band, big band jazz music back in the fifties, so he blasted that in my ears from the time I was born. I LOVE this style of music as well as just about all others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Funkwire Posted November 29, 2009 Members Share Posted November 29, 2009 Kenny G is one of the most expressive instrumentalists I have ever heard in all my years, although the very nature of his pure expressiveness comes off as perfect and therefore sterile to me which doesnt resonate well with me or spark any emotion or any interst in his music at all TO ME, but I can definitely hear exactly what it is that his vision of expression is, as far as what he personally wants to say with the instrument. There are very few on Earth more expressive than him. I sincerely hope you are kidding. Gorelick has a tenuous command of pitch at best and his style is built on crowd pleasing triplets. When it comes to expressive sax, Kenny G is not fit to wipe the asses of Ben Webster, Johnny Hodges, John Coltrane, Lester Young, Stan Getz...shall I go on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Darkstorm Posted November 29, 2009 Members Share Posted November 29, 2009 Expressiveness is mainly something the player brings. That said synthesizer is of course going to be the most versatile instrument out there as they can emmulate any other instrument made as well as create all kind of voices not heard with any other instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted November 29, 2009 Members Share Posted November 29, 2009 It's been said that nothing can match the sound of a human voice as closely as the violin can in terms of expressiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members captain kazoo Posted November 29, 2009 Members Share Posted November 29, 2009 No, I don't think a kazoo is going to hang with a violin.. i eat violins for breakfast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members captain kazoo Posted November 29, 2009 Members Share Posted November 29, 2009 kazoos excluded what did i ever do to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jjpistols Posted November 29, 2009 Members Share Posted November 29, 2009 [YOUTUBE]TVyyhHFKI8E[/YOUTUBE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TomCTC Posted November 29, 2009 Members Share Posted November 29, 2009 Yeah, violin is up there. I like how expressive some slide guitar players can get, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaveAronow Posted November 29, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 29, 2009 I sincerely hope you are kidding. Gorelick has a tenuous command of pitch at best and his style is built on crowd pleasing triplets.When it comes to expressive sax, Kenny G is not fit to wipe the asses of Ben Webster, Johnny Hodges, John Coltrane, Lester Young, Stan Getz...shall I go on? No. But I am not talking about the notes he chooses to play per say. I am more talking about how he phrases things and mimics a human voice with his dynamics and such. I knew I wasnt going to get alot of people agreeing on the Kenny G thing. I cant argue with your examples and I am sure you can provide more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaveAronow Posted November 29, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 29, 2009 Yeah, violin is up there. I like how expressive some slide guitar players can get, though. Bonnie Raitt can give me goosebumps, not only with that otherworldly like voice of hers, but with that badass slide playing as well. Too many other examples to list also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaveAronow Posted November 29, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 29, 2009 what did i ever do to you? Got clips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaveAronow Posted November 29, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 29, 2009 It's been said that nothing can match the sound of a human voice as closely as the violin can in terms of expressiveness. My personal opinion is also this. I expect the majority of guitar players to dissagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members captain kazoo Posted November 29, 2009 Members Share Posted November 29, 2009 i got kazoo clips out the wazoo [YOUTUBE]-FTEdn-Xvck[/YOUTUBE] jimi hendrix eat your heart out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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