Members stunningbabe Posted October 4, 2012 Members Share Posted October 4, 2012 I have no idea how to explain what "WARM' sound is in ENglish. Think Vinyl, Tape, Analog 'warm' sound. I know my English is at best mediocre compared to you folks...so please teach me. How do you describe 'WARM SOUND' in your own words? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soul-x Posted October 4, 2012 Members Share Posted October 4, 2012 Most of the examples given would to me indicate a bit of distortion coupled with a rolloff of high frequency. And that kind of falls in line with the sound I generally associate with what people mean with the adjective "warm" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sibyrnes Posted October 4, 2012 Members Share Posted October 4, 2012 A warm sound is usually more biased towards the low and lower mid frequencies as opposed to a bright, treblely sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members srp72ee Posted October 4, 2012 Members Share Posted October 4, 2012 Clean, easy to listen to sound, not harsh or too heavily weighted in any frequency range. Bottom end must be clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mutha Goose Posted October 4, 2012 Members Share Posted October 4, 2012 Using he term "warm" to describe sound began as a way to describe the sound after the power tubes heated up. Slightly compressed, with mild high frequency distortion, and a sagging low end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted October 4, 2012 Members Share Posted October 4, 2012 and a sagging low end. Now define "sagging low end". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soul-x Posted October 4, 2012 Members Share Posted October 4, 2012 Now define "sagging low end". Sag is distortion & compression caused by slow/undersized power. That's actually pretty easy to create electronically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lonotes Posted October 4, 2012 Members Share Posted October 4, 2012 Now define "sagging low end". As we get older, everything gets larger, heavier, and closer to the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 4, 2012 Members Share Posted October 4, 2012 To me, the entire description process is in the mind of the user rather than anything technically accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 Tanya: I'm of the impression that preference in the sound of music stuff varies over the globe... folks get accustomed to their local dialect of musical sounds, and that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stunningbabe Posted October 5, 2012 Author Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 thx to all of you who posted here. I love hearing how you folks creatively describe 'warmth' in your own words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 Warm sound a slogan invented by marketing folks to make their product sell. With slogans such adds rich analog warmth to your sound with our __________ product only for $$$$$$$$$ I think SRV would sound like SRV on a $100 amp as well as a $1000 amp just the $1000 amp probably uses real tubes and not tube shaped light bulbs passed off as tubes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members texas twelve Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 I see warm as a descriptor of the old analog, lp sound. Things were more "mixed" sounding. Digital often sounds to me like you have a drummer in Oklahoma, a guitarist in Texas, A bass player in Georgia, and keyboardist in New York, and they are playing together by using earphones. They can still be tight, and the music can be excellent, but the analog sound feels more like those same guys in someone's living room playing together, and you are listening on the couch. Digital is a bit too clear and crispy for me. And yes, analog can sometimes be a bit low-end muddy. Carlos Santana did a cd that covered a lot of classic rock songs starting back in the late 60's. His arrangements and guitar, of course, was great, but the first thing I noticed was that uber-clean, crisp sound and feel. I couldn't help but compare it to the original sound that was analog. Sometimes his version, IMHO, was superior to the original, but the sound......well......it just wasn't that warm analogy feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 I look at it two ways; 1. Smooth mellow tone, devoid of harshness and distortion; and 2. Within the context of your original question, (your reference to "tape, vinyl, etc"), the absence of noticeable digital-sampling artifacts and the impact of inadequate filtering. (Nyquist frequency), which can contribute to that sense of "brittleness". I've only ever noticed this effect in cheaper consumer-grade products from the 80's,90's, where it was common to see a single DAC(digital to analogue converter) being used for both channels (stereo left and right) for cost-cutting reasons. Also, cheap "brickwall-filtering", combined with a too-low(IMO) sampling-rate (44/1Khz). I noticed a BIG difference with the DAT standard of 48 Khz sampling and digital filtering, as well as the use of twin DAC's (one per channel/ left and right). Raising the sampling rate to 48KHz from 44.1Khz, "moved" the Nyquist frequency from 22KHz, to 24Khz, which was well out of the range of human hearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 "Warmth" might be whatever noise it is that this adds to your recording?? http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/KramerMPXNat/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 I look at it two ways;1. Smooth mellow tone, devoid of harshness and distortion; and2. Within the context of your original question, (your reference to "tape, vinyl, etc"), the absence of noticeable digital-sampling artifacts and the impact of inadequate filtering. (Nyquist frequency), which can contribute to that sense of "brittleness". I've only ever noticed this effect in cheaper consumer-grade products from the 80's,90's, where it was common to see a single DAC(digital to analogue converter) being used for both channels (stereo left and right) for cost-cutting reasons. Also, cheap "brickwall-filtering", combined with a too-low(IMO) sampling-rate (44/1Khz). I noticed a BIG difference with the DAT standard of 48 Khz sampling and digital filtering, as well as the use of twin DAC's (one per channel/ left and right). Raising the sampling rate to 48KHz from 44.1Khz, "moved" the Nyquist frequency from 22KHz, to 24Khz, which was well out of the range of human hearing. Except that with many folks, the description of warmth includes rich buttery harmonics that are added with distortion. You don't think 22kHz is well out of the range of human hearing also? From my experience in the digital world, there's a lot more to it than this simple description. Some of it's the design choices made, some of it is the PCB layout and unintended interactions, some of it is customer expectations, some of it is sampling frequency and filtering (less than you might imagine), and some of it is the recording/masterig approach because of new found fredoms digital offers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 Except that with many folks, the description of warmth includes rich buttery harmonics that are added with distortion. You don't think 22kHz is well out of the range of human hearing also? From my experience in the digital world, there's a lot more to it than this simple description. Some of it's the design choices made, some of it is the PCB layout and unintended interactions, some of it is customer expectations, some of it is sampling frequency and filtering (less than you might imagine), and some of it is the recording/masterig approach because of new found fredoms digital offers. You'd think so wouldn't you. That's certainly true for my current "old" ears. (64 years young). That said, and in a younger era, the difference between a consumer-grade 16-bit CD player (44.1kHz), and DAT (48 kHz) was immediately apparent. Theoretically, the 22kHz Nyquist frequency was well beyond the range of human hearing,,, but what about the filters used back then? How narrow were they? How far did they extend below the Nyquist frequency? 20kHz? 18 kHz? There's no doubt that "properly designed" 16-bit/44.1kHz CD players could sound amaaaazing, but back in the day, the only one I ever found, was the Revox B-226 CD player, which used twin DAC's (stereo left and right), and digital filtering. Off-the-shelf CD players, like the NAD's and Sony's that were available at that time, sounded "ok", but in a direct A/B comparison, the Revox was untouchable. That was "digital done right". I even compared it to a boutique tube/hybrid CD player (California AudioLabs Tempest") which cost over $4k, and the Revox (1/2 that price) sounded better. The difference was almost as noticeable as an A/B comparison between consumer-grade CD, and DAT. "Warmer" too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pro Sound Guy Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 I have no idea how to explain what "WARM' sound is in ENglish. Think Vinyl, Tape, Analog 'warm' sound. I know my English is at best mediocre compared to you folks...so please teach me. How do you describe 'WARM SOUND' in your own words? Tube sound is often described as warm in tone. How bout "Warm and Fuzzy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 There are other substantial differences between DAT and CD, including ALL of the processing and tracking electronics. It's like comparing apples and oranges. Any differences are likely to be distributed between a number of factors, it's inaccurate to attribute something to a simplistic path without considering the entire system IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 There are other substantial differences between DAT and CD, including ALL of the processing and tracking electronics. It's like comparing apples and oranges. Any differences are likely to be distributed between a number of factors, it's inaccurate to attribute something to a simplistic path without considering the entire system IMO. I said "A/B'd,,,,,, in other words, in the same system/same room/same level. Only the compared components changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 I said "A/B'd,,,,,, in other words, in the same system/same room/same level. Only the compared components changed. The DAT is a complete system of thousands of parts as is the CD player. You are confusing the term "components". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 The DAT is a complete system of thousands of parts as is the CD player.You are confusing the term "components". I don't care about the components,,, that's not what I was talking about, at all. I was talking about the "sound" of a 48kHz DAT system,,,, vs the "sound" of a consumer-grade 44.1kHz CD-players with single DAC and brick-wall filtering. The old consumer CD-players sounded "brittle" to some users. The general impression regarding the sound of DAT, was much higher resolution,,,, more "musical",,,, ergo 'warmer" sounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 I don't care about the components,,, that's not what I was talking about, at all. I was talking about the "sound" of a 48kHz DAT system,,,, vs the "sound" of a consumer-grade 44.1kHz CD-players with single DAC and brick-wall filtering. The old consumer CD-players sounded "brittle" to some users. The general impression regarding the sound of DAT, was much higher resolution,,,, more "musical",,,, ergo 'warmer" sounding. You HAVE to care about the components. What I am trying to get you to understand is that it's most unlikely to have anything to do with just the sampling frequency or the a-a filtering. If you wanted to assign "blame" on those, then those must be the only changes made in the comparison. There are WAY too many other variables within a CD player or a DAT player to assign cause. You are comparing a CD SYSTEM to a DAT SYSTEM. There are significant differences other than the sampling frequency, the AA filtering, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rbts Posted October 6, 2012 Members Share Posted October 6, 2012 Rich and Full? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members VanHalen Posted October 6, 2012 Members Share Posted October 6, 2012 How do you describe 'WARM SOUND' in your own words? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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