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  • Last Minute PA Questions

    Hey folks, you guys and gals have all been so helpful and it looks like if things go well, I should be getting into the new PA within the next few weeks, but I have some last minute questions:



    First, since I already moved more than half the band into wired IEM's, this simplifies (or complicates) my monitor situation. My original plan was to buy four PRX612m's, two for tops and two for monitors as well as two XLF subs. However, now that I have most of the band willing to wear IEM's, I am finding that I don't really need wedges. Some of you may remember that I have a pair of very old and bulky JBL MR805 wedges. I power them with a Crown Powerbase 2. The drummer and bass player, neither of whom want to wear an IEM, find these monitors more than adequate, so I am going to use IEM's for everyone else and the MR805's for the drummer and bass player.



    So now I only really "need" two of the 612m cabinets as tops. However, I was thinking of still buying four and doubling up the front end putting two per side so I would then have 4 612's and 2 XLF's. But lately I have been thinking that since the XLF's are such amazing subs, might I be better off instead of buying four 612 cabinets, buying four of whatever the next step up is?



    I know that the VRX 932LAP cabinets are very controversial in the various sound communities. Some absolutely love them and others are quite "meh" about them. One sound man friend of mine has four of them, two per side, and loves them. Another sound man friend of mine feels that not only are they overrated and over priced BUT that he feels there is a "hole in the mid range." He also said that I would have to have at least two per side to make it work or they wouldn't sound very good. Not that I want to spend ten grand on four tops, mind you. I don't. I just wanted some opinions on this.



    Someone also told me that the prospect of putting four tops on sticks might look a little stupid if I go with two 612's per side, one each over the XLF subs and one each on tripods.



    I have more questions, but I think this will suffice for now. Thanks again!

  • #2
    You'd only need four 612's if you need the additional coverage. A single 612 will keep up with an XLF no prob. In fact you might want two XLF's per side under one 612 if you play outdoor gigs or are one of "those bands" that want the kick and bass to drown out your crappy singing and guitar playing . In any case you can't go wrong starting with one 612 over one XLF per side .



    I have heard a pair of the unpowered version of the VRX 932LAP and they are a step up from the MRX/PRX line but no better than the SRX line IMO (at least as singles). They also have better horizontal coverage than the MRX/PRX (and maybe the SRX?) and contrary to uninformed opinion work OK as singles. But unless you will eventually need more than one per side a pair of SRX712M's or SRX715's sound about the same and not fugly like those VRX .

    "We Have Met the Enemy and He is Us" - Walt Kelly​

    Comment


    • #3
      You'd only need four 612's if you need the additional coverage. A single 612 will keep up with an XLF no prob. In fact you might want two XLF's per side under one 612 if you play outdoor gigs or are one of "those bands" that want the kick and bass to drown out your crappy singing and guitar playing . In any case you can't go wrong starting with one 612 over one XLF per side .



      I have heard a pair of the unpowered version of the VRX 932LAP and they are a step up from the MRX/PRX line but no better than the SRX line IMO (at least as singles). They also have better horizontal coverage than the MRX/PRX (and maybe the SRX?) and contrary to uninformed opinion work OK as singles. But unless you will eventually need more than one per side a pair of SRX712M's or SRX715's sound about the same and not fugly like those VRX .

      "We Have Met the Enemy and He is Us" - Walt Kelly​

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks for the response, RoadRanger! First, I have absolutely ruled out a need for four subs. Honestly, we are a Grateful Dead cover band and the vocals are good and getting better, so no need to drown anything out. I definitely believe that, for my band, even with the outdoor gigs we play, that two XLF subs is more than sufficient. You know what? I played a pickup gig this past weekend and they had PRX525 cabinets over PRX518 subs, one each per side, and I was very impressed by the bass response in the large club of even the 518 subs, which is perhaps slightly inferior to the PRX618s subs. So if I was impressed by a pair of 518's I can't. for one second, imagine, feeling literally ANY desire for more subs (at this point in time) than what I will get from a pair of XLF's. Seriously, we don't play hip-hop or rap. I am not a DJ who needs bass to be thumping and drowning out the music because the hoards of unenlightened teenagers want to hear bass from three miles away lol.



        I cannot, for one second, imagine a scenario in my band where the subs need to outnumber the tops. Everything I have researched for my band/genre tells me that if I am going to double up on only one component, double up on the tops.



        I was considering the SRX cabinets, to be honest. But I am not a highly experienced sound man AND am doing sound from stage at least to start off with. From what a whole bunch of you guys said when I originally joined the forum, for someone like me, the powered PRX's will probably sound better, right out of the box, than the passive SRX's because of the engineering, DSP, and so forth. I guess what I was asking was if there is a powered top that is one step above the PRX 600 line or the QSC KW series, and if that would be a better way to go than doubling up on the tops. Perhaps for someone in my position, doubling the PRX tops is a better option than two of the next step up, even if it isn't JBL tops?



        What I would absolutely LOVE is if the PRX line had like a 622 line or something, like the 625 only with dual 12's. That would be my ideal cabinet at this point. I had briefly considered a pair of 625's instead of four 612m's, but I really like the way 12" speakers + horn pairs up with the 18" subs.

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks for the response, RoadRanger! First, I have absolutely ruled out a need for four subs. Honestly, we are a Grateful Dead cover band and the vocals are good and getting better, so no need to drown anything out. I definitely believe that, for my band, even with the outdoor gigs we play, that two XLF subs is more than sufficient. You know what? I played a pickup gig this past weekend and they had PRX525 cabinets over PRX518 subs, one each per side, and I was very impressed by the bass response in the large club of even the 518 subs, which is perhaps slightly inferior to the PRX618s subs. So if I was impressed by a pair of 518's I can't. for one second, imagine, feeling literally ANY desire for more subs (at this point in time) than what I will get from a pair of XLF's. Seriously, we don't play hip-hop or rap. I am not a DJ who needs bass to be thumping and drowning out the music because the hoards of unenlightened teenagers want to hear bass from three miles away lol.



          I cannot, for one second, imagine a scenario in my band where the subs need to outnumber the tops. Everything I have researched for my band/genre tells me that if I am going to double up on only one component, double up on the tops.



          I was considering the SRX cabinets, to be honest. But I am not a highly experienced sound man AND am doing sound from stage at least to start off with. From what a whole bunch of you guys said when I originally joined the forum, for someone like me, the powered PRX's will probably sound better, right out of the box, than the passive SRX's because of the engineering, DSP, and so forth. I guess what I was asking was if there is a powered top that is one step above the PRX 600 line or the QSC KW series, and if that would be a better way to go than doubling up on the tops. Perhaps for someone in my position, doubling the PRX tops is a better option than two of the next step up, even if it isn't JBL tops?



          What I would absolutely LOVE is if the PRX line had like a 622 line or something, like the 625 only with dual 12's. That would be my ideal cabinet at this point. I had briefly considered a pair of 625's instead of four 612m's, but I really like the way 12" speakers + horn pairs up with the 18" subs.

          Comment


          • #6
            I agree, for many applications such as yours, 4 tops with 2 subs may be a better choice. In fact , with much of my work I use 2 tops to a single sub and I never find myself wishing for more.



            The 612 is a fine speaker, I'm no convinced that the vrx would be an improvement. If you are careful with your setup, 2 tripods will nest tightly with the tops. I do this all the time.
            -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/Fender Musical Instruments Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

            Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

            Comment


            • #7
              I agree, for many applications such as yours, 4 tops with 2 subs may be a better choice. In fact , with much of my work I use 2 tops to a single sub and I never find myself wishing for more.



              The 612 is a fine speaker, I'm no convinced that the vrx would be an improvement. If you are careful with your setup, 2 tripods will nest tightly with the tops. I do this all the time.
              -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/Fender Musical Instruments Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

              Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

              Comment


              • #8






                Quote Originally Posted by agedhorse
                View Post

                I agree, for many applications such as yours, 4 tops with 2 subs may be a better choice. In fact , with much of my work I use 2 tops to a single sub and I never find myself wishing for more.



                The 612 is a fine speaker, I'm no convinced that the vrx would be an improvement. If you are careful with your setup, 2 tripods will nest tightly with the tops. I do this all the time.




                Yeah my main concern was that a buddy of mine had kind of said, tongue-in-cheek, that the four tops (two on tripods and two over the subs) would look a little stupid. but what I like about that setup is it also gives me backups in case a top goes down and I have to wait weeks for warranty repair. I would rather be in a position where I am using three tops over two subs than one while I wait for a repair.



                Thanks Andy!!

                Comment


                • #9






                  Quote Originally Posted by agedhorse
                  View Post

                  I agree, for many applications such as yours, 4 tops with 2 subs may be a better choice. In fact , with much of my work I use 2 tops to a single sub and I never find myself wishing for more.



                  The 612 is a fine speaker, I'm no convinced that the vrx would be an improvement. If you are careful with your setup, 2 tripods will nest tightly with the tops. I do this all the time.




                  Yeah my main concern was that a buddy of mine had kind of said, tongue-in-cheek, that the four tops (two on tripods and two over the subs) would look a little stupid. but what I like about that setup is it also gives me backups in case a top goes down and I have to wait weeks for warranty repair. I would rather be in a position where I am using three tops over two subs than one while I wait for a repair.



                  Thanks Andy!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    There's a couple of ways to think about this. With 4 speakers you do have more backup but with 2 higher quality speakers you have better sound. I just don't expect to have any problems ( although it can happen). And certainly more cabinets can be more versatile ( but I'd rent when I need something unusual).



                    I'm more of the school of thought that getting fewer of the best possible speakers you can afford is a better idea. Combining speakers is rarely a 1+1= 2 situation. You might add a little level and loose a little quality due to cancellations.



                    If it were me I'd take a listen to some of the higher end RCF speakers or KV2 or Meyer UPAs (maybe used).
                    Don Boomer

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      There's a couple of ways to think about this. With 4 speakers you do have more backup but with 2 higher quality speakers you have better sound. I just don't expect to have any problems ( although it can happen). And certainly more cabinets can be more versatile ( but I'd rent when I need something unusual).



                      I'm more of the school of thought that getting fewer of the best possible speakers you can afford is a better idea. Combining speakers is rarely a 1+1= 2 situation. You might add a little level and loose a little quality due to cancellations.



                      If it were me I'd take a listen to some of the higher end RCF speakers or KV2 or Meyer UPAs (maybe used).
                      Don Boomer

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        ^ Yah, RCF 722A's are a step up from the 612M's. If I had the pack space I'd move up to those over my present 310A's - I could have used the extra 3db once last year . OTOH another pair of the 310A's might be the way to go - anybody have a pair of pre-MKIII's for sale?

                        "We Have Met the Enemy and He is Us" - Walt Kelly​

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          ^ Yah, RCF 722A's are a step up from the 612M's. If I had the pack space I'd move up to those over my present 310A's - I could have used the extra 3db once last year . OTOH another pair of the 310A's might be the way to go - anybody have a pair of pre-MKIII's for sale?

                          "We Have Met the Enemy and He is Us" - Walt Kelly​

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            CV, my vote is for four 612m. I think that that rig will provide maximum flexibility, especially if you just need a center fill, or have a long narrow space where a second set of speakers (with appropriate delay) gives your audience better sound. (IIRC, the S/L 24.4.2 lets you assign delay.) Dboomer and others make valid points about better quality speakers, but my sense is that you'll be very happy with the PRX 600 series rig. Mark C.
                            "Good tools are expensive. Cheap tools are damned expensive."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              CV, my vote is for four 612m. I think that that rig will provide maximum flexibility, especially if you just need a center fill, or have a long narrow space where a second set of speakers (with appropriate delay) gives your audience better sound. (IIRC, the S/L 24.4.2 lets you assign delay.) Dboomer and others make valid points about better quality speakers, but my sense is that you'll be very happy with the PRX 600 series rig. Mark C.
                              "Good tools are expensive. Cheap tools are damned expensive."

                              Comment



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