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  • Quote Originally Posted by girevik
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    By "and that kind of stuff" I was referring to stuff other than the control surface - eg. sonic behavior, tonal qualities, etc.



    However, I have seen many complaints from organ-heads about drawbars on various models...Control surface is quite important to these people, based on what I've read from them.




    All these things are important, but not all equally important, and not all important to all the same people.



    The fundamental feature anyone serious about organ wants is some way to actually create drawbar settings. Otherwise, all you have is a handful of presets, which doesn't give you nearly the range of sounds an actual organ is capable of. So that's the minimum. Beyond that, there are many other aspects, which some people find more important than other: the ergonomics of the controls, the feel of the action (and whether the keys are "waterfall" shaped), the quality of the leslie simulation, the tone of the percussion settings, the authenticity of the overdrive, the basic character of the tonewheel emulation itself, and how tweakable various aspects of the emulation are. Not everyone finds all of these things equally important, but the ability to designate drawbar registrations is fundamental.









    Quote Originally Posted by girevik
    View Post

    Really though, any Hammond nut won't be looking at a rompler in the first place - they'd be looking more at the likes of Nord Electro, Hammond XK series, etc.




    True about "hammond nuts" but you can get drawbar-level manipulation that many organ players find at least minimally acceptable in numerous romplers and other non-organ-specific boards which are still designed to have a drawbar organ emulation mode. These would include the Kronos, anything in the Kurzweil PC3 series, the Roland Jupiters, and the Casio XW-P1, among others. Not the Krome, though.

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    • The main limitation is that (like a lot of ROMpler organs, unfortunately) most samples have percussion. And I got the impression that the percussion is built in to the sample rather than an extra layer, so that it triggers with every note, rather than the more realisitic emulation of a separate layer where the amp envelope retriggers on first (non-legato) note. But either of these is a deal-killer for me, since while percussion is very important, 90% of my playing is without it.



      It probably won't have harmonic foldback, so when you do a run up the keyboard, it'll sound wrong at the top if it sounds right at the bottom. If it samples enough keys, though, it could.



      Chances of a decent scanner emulation are small. Palm slides without scanner chorus just don't sound right to me, but it's something I could live without for limited purposes.



      I assume it does support MIDI CC 11 (expression) as a pre-amplifier volume, so increasing expression increases drive -- and also assuming there's a half-decent Leslie sim. Not authentic maybe, but clearly a rotating speaker, with tube amp distortion that kicks in at higher CC11 levels.



      If all you need organ for is a few classic rock tunes where organ is in the background, the Krome might be OK, especially if you can find a preset or two without percussion.
      learjeff.net

      Comment








      • Quote Originally Posted by learjeff
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        The main limitation is that (like a lot of ROMpler organs, unfortunately) most samples have percussion. And I got the impression that the percussion is built in to the sample rather than an extra layer, so that it triggers with every note




        A number of romplers do allow you to layer a sound with single trigger (legato) behavior. I'm pretty sure you can do this on the M50, so I expect you'll be able to do this on the Krome. Pretty sure it works on Yamaha MOX/Motif, too.

        Comment








        • Quote Originally Posted by AnotherScott
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          True about "hammond nuts" but you can get drawbar-level manipulation that many organ players find at least minimally acceptable in numerous romplers and other non-organ-specific boards which are still designed to have a drawbar organ emulation mode. These would include the Kronos, anything in the Kurzweil PC3 series, the Roland Jupiters, and the Casio XW-P1, among others. Not the Krome, though.




          Therein lies the problem for Mr. Retro, I suppose

          Comment








          • Quote Originally Posted by AnotherScott
            View Post

            True about "hammond nuts" but you can get drawbar-level manipulation that many organ players find at least minimally acceptable in numerous romplers and other non-organ-specific boards which are still designed to have a drawbar organ emulation mode. These would include the Kronos, anything in the Kurzweil PC3 series, the Roland Jupiters, and the Casio XW-P1, among others. Not the Krome, though.




            Therein lies the problem for Mr. Retro, I suppose

            Comment








            • Quote Originally Posted by girevik
              View Post

              Therein lies the problem for Mr. Retro, I suppose




              Right. He might be able to put together something usable with the method he's talking about, but it's not a functionality naturally built into the board as it is in those others, so he will probably come across some impediments.

              Comment


              • My local Sam Ash store finally got a delivery of Kromes today (61 key only), so I stopped in on my way home from work. I have an MOX6, so I was very interested to see/hear how the Krome stacks up.



                Unfortunately, they had the Krome plugged into a keyboard amp situated down at my shins, so I really didn't get a proper audition of the sounds. But, based upon what I did hear, along with some helpful videos, I know that that Krome is full of excellent sounds.



                I previously owned a Korg M3 61, and as far as I could tell, the Krome's OS is very, very similar to that of the M3 and M50 series. The touchscreen operates the same. Some of the screens feature color elements, but these are relatively minimal. A row of virtual buttons may be yellow, or knobs blue. From what I saw, the screens are not overwhelmingly colorful.



                For an entry-level instrument, the build quality appears to be very good. The metal panels on the front are a nice touch, and overall the instrument has a less "plasticky" feel than the MOX or the M50.



                The keyboard action is very "light." It is certainly ideal for playing fast runs, and is the opposite of a weighted keyboard. The action is better than you'll find on most keyboard controllers, but not as nice as a Kronos 61, or other top-line workstations.



                All in all, the Krome 61 is a tremendous value at $999. I was afraid that the build quality and keyboard action would be crappy, but they're not. I played around with the sequencer mode, and the five insert effects (vs three on the MOX) are a welcome addition. The sounds, like the OS, seem to be related to the M3/M50, but perhaps more refined. On the downside, the Korg engineers continue to annoy me by refusing to include dedicated octave up/down buttons on a 61-key board.
                -------------------------------
                Michael
                Jupiter-50, MOX6, TI Polar, Moog LP, Korg Micro X, JV-1080
                27" iMac, DP 7.24, Omnisphere, Alchemy, many more...
                http://www.youtube.com/keybdwizrd

                Comment


                • Thanks Michael



                  Great mini review on look and feel...
                  世界で最高のシンセはmicroKORGにある

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                  • Kronos X
                    "I remember when dubstep was just called "LFO-Locked-Filter-On-Square-Wave-Bass-Synth" in the '60s" - Alan Parsons

                    Kurzweil PC3♦Alesis Fusion 6HD♦Alesis Quadrasynth+Piano (3)♦Alesis QS7.1 (2)♦Alesis QSR♦ Alesis S4+♦Alesis DMPRO♦Evolution MK-461C♦Rhodes Mark II Stage 73♦Roland JX-8P♦Kawai K1 & K1m♦

                    Comment








                    • Quote Originally Posted by keybdwizrd
                      View Post

                      My local Sam Ash store finally got a delivery of Kromes today (61 key only), so I stopped in on my way home from work. I have an MOX6, so I was very interested to see/hear how the Krome stacks up.



                      Unfortunately, they had the Krome plugged into a keyboard amp situated down at my shins, so I really didn't get a proper audition of the sounds. But, based upon what I did hear, along with some helpful videos, I know that that Krome is full of excellent sounds.



                      I previously owned a Korg M3 61, and as far as I could tell, the Krome's OS is very, very similar to that of the M3 and M50 series. The touchscreen operates the same. Some of the screens feature color elements, but these are relatively minimal. A row of virtual buttons may be yellow, or knobs blue. From what I saw, the screens are not overwhelmingly colorful.



                      For an entry-level instrument, the build quality appears to be very good. The metal panels on the front are a nice touch, and overall the instrument has a less "plasticky" feel than the MOX or the M50.



                      The keyboard action is very "light." It is certainly ideal for playing fast runs, and is the opposite of a weighted keyboard. The action is better than you'll find on most keyboard controllers, but not as nice as a Kronos 61, or other top-line workstations.



                      All in all, the Krome 61 is a tremendous value at $999. I was afraid that the build quality and keyboard action would be crappy, but they're not. I played around with the sequencer mode, and the five insert effects (vs three on the MOX) are a welcome addition. The sounds, like the OS, seem to be related to the M3/M50, but perhaps more refined. On the downside, the Korg engineers continue to annoy me by refusing to include dedicated octave up/down buttons on a 61-key board.




                      So as someone who has both the MOX6 and the Krome on his (theoretical) shortlist, which one would you give the nod to?
                      Vocal Gear: Audix OM3xb, Boss VE-20 | Synth Gear: iPad and apps | Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Roland AX7

                      Comment








                      • Quote Originally Posted by MikeyParent
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                        So as someone who has both the MOX6 and the Krome on his (theoretical) shortlist, which one would you give the nod to?




                        Well, that is a really really hard questions to answer. If I get a Krome, I'll likely have to use it for a month or two, and then make the decision to either sell it or the MOX.



                        In favor of the MOX - I have been a big fan of the Motif sounds ever since I bought an original Motif about ten years ago. And, ultimately, these boards are mostly about the sounds. I had a Korg M3 for about a year, and sold it because I preferred the MOX sound library, which is basically the XS library in a lighter, cheaper package. I would need to spend some time with the Krome and explore its sounds before I could decide to ditch it in favor of the MOX.



                        Like I said before, because I do a lot of sequencing, the Krome scores major points with the five insert effects (vs three on the MOX).



                        But the MOX scores major points with the simple addition of dedicated octave up/down buttons (the Krome omits this).



                        The Krome scores big points with its large, color touch screen, which makes the Motif screen look like something from 2002. But the Krome RELIES on use of the touch screen and the big knob for many functions, which isn't necessarily preferable to the controls on the MOX.



                        IMHO, both operating systems are rather obtuse to use. I do well with the MOX because its OS is merely an updated one of what appeared in the original Motifs more than ten years ago. I think that someone with no experience with either instruments would have a much easier time picking up the Krome OS.



                        The Krome also gets HUGE points from me for having a VST/AU editor that can run inside any DAW, including Digital Performer (which I use). The one with the MOX only works with Cubase... what the hell is that about?



                        And then there's the price - the Krome 61 is $200 cheaper than the MOX.... the MOX6 is $1199, which is the price for the 73-key Krome!



                        So, considering all of the above, I have to put the Krome in first place, UNLESS you absolutely prefer the Motif sound library to that of the Krome. If you prefer the Krome sounds, you else get the large touch screen, more intuitive OS, VST/AU editor, more insert effects, and a cheaper price.



                        But me... I love the MOX sounds and know my way around it quite well. I would really have to prefer the Krome sounds in order for me to ditch the MOX. Chances are, if I buy a Krome, I will just keep both.
                        -------------------------------
                        Michael
                        Jupiter-50, MOX6, TI Polar, Moog LP, Korg Micro X, JV-1080
                        27" iMac, DP 7.24, Omnisphere, Alchemy, many more...
                        http://www.youtube.com/keybdwizrd

                        Comment


                        • Michael:



                          Have you considered a Kronos 61 on top and a MOX8 on bottom? Could be the best of both worlds my friend. At least that's the path I'm heading down. Got the Kronos already and was considering a Privia PX3 for a controller/backup until I saw what used MOX8's are going for. Only a few hundred more. It's quite a shame to have those beautiful pianos in the Kronos and not having a weighted action to play them from. I bought my Motif ES6 used based largely on watching your impressive Motif videos. I too have a place in my heart for the Yamaha sound set. My plans are to unload my M3-73 and ES6 and add the MOX8 and a pair of QSC K10's. Should put me pretty close to Nirvana for live AND studio. Plus I do use Cubase, so the MOX DAW integration works for me. Curious about their iPad apps too. Still waiting for Korg to update the Kronos Editor software so I can integrate it as a VST as well. lol



                          (of course you do have that MOFO of a Virus Polar already too - you lucky bastid)
                          Korg Kronos 88 :: Korg M3-73 Xpanded (w/Radias board) :: Yamaha MOXF6 :: SpaceStation V3 :: Behringer B212A Powered Speaker :: Akai EWI USB :: Variax Guitar :: PODx3 Live! :: Martin Acoustic Guitar :: Mandolin :: Steinberg Cubase 7.5 :: Omnisphere :: Trilian :: V-Collection :: Korg Legacy Collection :: SampleTank 3 :: Sonik Synth 2 :: Ravenscroft 275 Piano :: Komplete 9 Ultimate :: VB3 :: Just Way Too Many VST's

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                          • Why would anyone choose a Krome 61 over a Kurzweil PC361? From everything I've read on this site, the Krome cannot compare. It's certainly not even a contender when it comes to Hammond simulation, and I would have a difficult time believing any of the orchestral sounds are superior. In what categories does the Krome excel over the PC361? What am I missing?
                            "I remember when dubstep was just called "LFO-Locked-Filter-On-Square-Wave-Bass-Synth" in the '60s" - Alan Parsons

                            Kurzweil PC3♦Alesis Fusion 6HD♦Alesis Quadrasynth+Piano (3)♦Alesis QS7.1 (2)♦Alesis QSR♦ Alesis S4+♦Alesis DMPRO♦Evolution MK-461C♦Rhodes Mark II Stage 73♦Roland JX-8P♦Kawai K1 & K1m♦

                            Comment








                            • Quote Originally Posted by Synthaholic
                              View Post

                              Why would anyone choose a Krome 61 over a Kurzweil PC361? From everything I've read on this site, the Krome cannot compare. It's certainly not even a contender when it comes to Hammond simulation, and I would have a difficult time believing any of the orchestral sounds are superior. In what categories does the Krome excel over the PC361? What am I missing?




                              PC3K6 at stores for 2,499 dollars (that is the current model - PC361 has been discontinued a while ago)

                              Krome 61 at stores for 999 dollars



                              I don't know how you get to compare the two.
                              http://www.reverbnation.com/christianschulze

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                              • Krome over PC361/PC3K6 = piano, EPs, large touchscreen interface, lightweight

                                PC361/PC3K6 over Krome = probably everything else

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