'The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway'

[Mark L]

A work of genius?

 

Or a load of old crap?

 

[rasputin1963]

Tell us more....?

[Jeff da Weasel]

"Genius" is a pretty casually-applied term.

 

Lamb is a complex piece of music, and has an appeal at a certain level. Whether it's justifiably comparable to genius in your definition will always be debatable. I mean, some people think the Beastie Boys' Paul's Boutique is genius, and I can't negate that sentiment any easier than I could for a Genesis record, or a Bach fugue.

[dparr]

A work of genius.

 

Genesis's best album by far.

 

Very sad what became of that band.

[Geoff Grace]

"Genius?" Maybe.

 

"Or a load of old crap?" That depends, do you define a diamond as a coal's load of old crap?

 

Great album. Great concert. Genesis's best release and one of the best progressive rock albums ever, IMHO.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[blue2blue]

Let me say, I'm a big Peter Gabriel fan.

 

I got sick of it because of overexposure on LA radio but at the beginning, I thought it was pretty cool. I've never owned it, preferring to pickup up other Genesis albums I hadn't heard to death. And then, I got really tired of all the falling into the audience schtick. I'm familiar with the context of trust and all that but, you know, the first time is spontaneous and meaningful. After it's repeated a few times...

 

Anyhow, I think Gabriel is certainly one of the best serious pop writers around, even if he doesn't pump it out like he once did.

[Alndln2]

Very sad what became of that band.

You mean you don't like Phil Collins doing Supremes remakes? ()

[dparr]

You mean you don't like Phil Collins doing Supremes remakes? ( )

 

Yep, Phil put me in the land of confusion.

[Geoff Grace]

 

I got sick of it because of overexposure on LA radio

 

 

There was only one station that played it in Phoenix at the time -- our progressive rock station, KDKB. Was it played on more than one station here? My guess is you would have heard it on "The Mighty Met" (now "The Wave"), but I'm not really familiar with LA radio prior to 1979.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[gtrbass]

The Lamb is a tremendous high concept piece. I never owned a copy until about two years ago, and it struck me how contemporary it sounds. It is a classic album, but doesn't sound dated to my ears. I think that's an indicator of how that record shaped and influenced many artists who came later on.

 

There is a group from Montreal called the musical box. I wouldn't call them a tribute band per se. They are like Beatlemania or the Australian Pink Floyd show. They toured the Lamb in 2004. I saw them in LA at the Whittier Theatre. It was like climbing in a time machine and actually seeing the Lamb tour. That experience really gave me a newfound appreciation of that Album.

[dparr]

Remember the Slipperman.

 

 

Gabriel often couldn't get a microphone near enough to his mouth during this sequence to sing clearly, which frustrated Collins.

[Magpel]

I always preferred Selling England By the Pound, but maybe I'll need to revisit The Lamb one of these days

[bp]

This was before Phil sucked IMHO.

[Jeff da Weasel]

 

This was before Phil sucked IMHO.

 

 

Phil was GREAT on Lamb. Drums are performed great and sound great. Backing vox were great too.

 

I've never said Phil always sucked. The suck just crept up on him.

[DigitMus]

Yeah Jeff, the suck factor seemed to increase with time (& distance from PG's influence). "Trick of the Tail" - the 1st LP sans Gabriel - was actually quite good, when viewed from this distance in time. Each subsequent release seemed to suck just a little bit more until... well, you get the picture.

 

Scott

[Jon Gnash]

Can anyone name the piano piece by Ravel that inspired Tony Banks' piano intro?

[Jeff da Weasel]

 

"Trick of the Tail" - the 1st LP sans Gabriel - was actually quite good, when viewed from this distance in time.

 

 

Agreed. I'm actually okay with Genesis all the way up to Duke (despite "Misunderstanding"), and even parts of Abacab. And then... well, you know.

[Magpel]

 

Agreed. I'm actually okay with Genesis all the way up to Duke (despite "Misunderstanding"), and even parts of Abacab . And then... well, you know.

 

 

I agree. I am not sure how I feel about any Genesis anymore (inlcuding the vaunted Gabriel era) but I would agree that they stayed pretty much in peak form through at least half of Abacab; in fact, Phil's first solo album, Face Value, is damn decent for what (and when) it is.

[Hard Truth]

I think it was the high point of Genesis' recording career. Overall, I think the band has not aged well, despite plenty of great Gabriel tunes and vocals, because the keyboardist smothered most of their music with sameness.

[TCEDDIA]

Lamb is truly one of the all-time great prog-rock greats. Give a listen to it with decent headphones to really enjoy its mastery. Phil Collins sold out years later, but on this (and most of his work from the early-mid 70's) he plays brilliantly.

[Magpel]

The thing is , these guys, Genesis, they're all Beatles fanatics and they all love pop. In their Eton days , the decided they were serious composers, and, because the zeitgeist very much supported that delusion (as rock and roll became rock), they continued to believe that for about six records. But they love pop and rock and roll, too, and the movement in Genesis' music that starts, well , maybe starts with ..And Then There Were Three but really kicks in on Duke is not necessarily selling out--they wanted to rock; they were genuinely hip to the invigorating lessons of punk and new wave--the revival of short-forms, playful energy and lyrical directness in rock music-- for that's the paradox of rock and roll; it is deepest when it is most superficial--and the move away from the ponderous. I bet the zip of "No Reply at All" felt...liberating to those guys. And Tony didn't even have to give up his arpeggios!

 

And they probably truly believed in their hearts, as many have, that the invigorations of new wave were NOT mutually exclusive with the harmonic and sonic adventurousness that was prog's legacy. I mean, hell, XTC is a prog band in new wave clothing. In some ways the Holy Beatles themselves were a prog band in pop clothing.

 

Problem is, it just wasn't their strength, as Duke and ABABCAB, and, especially, everything after makes painfully clear. It's not selling out, IMO. Prog epics tend to be a young man's music (emphasis on man's). Genesis were certainly among the best at it, but a lot of people move toward shorter structures with modest ambitions and traditional forms--the depth of simplicity--as they age and mature. This is a very natural evolution of taste. This is not to say they disavow their proggy pasts or refuse to play the material to fans who still hunger for it. It was good stuff, and Genesis was one of the few bands, IMO, capable of humanizing prog. I mean you'll never hear a story as playful and gritty as "Battle of Epping Forest" from King Crimson... But can you blame them for wanting a little more groove, a little more lightness, and, perhaps most of all, a little less pretense in their music? You can't. What you can blame them for is kind of...sucking at pop.

 

Hell, Gabriel did the same thing--never losing his avant garde earnestness but very much going in for the energy and succintness of pop rock that was the zeigeist of the early '80s. The difference is that he is better at it, 'cause he's, like, a little smarter that way.

 

/opinion

[Magpel]

I should add, while the Lamb is not my favorite early Genesis album, did the later band ever do a pure bit of Beatlesque pop joy better than "Counting out Time"? I think not.

 

For that matter, that little minute-long snipper in "Supper's Ready" that begins "Feel your body melt..." is a wonderful bit of playful pop. The problem is that it's title is something like "Supper's Ready, Opus Four, Canto XVI: Luciferous Tugs of Fergus' Robe and Complains about The Weather."

[russrags]

I'm a H U G E Genesis fan ... although they lost me with "Illegal Alien", "I Can't Dance," "No Son of Mine" and such CRAP.

 

The Lamb is a wonderful record, even though recording wise, I think it's about the same as eating a gourmet meal off the floor. Unfortunatly recordings didn't start getting very good until about Duke, even though there are plenty of records before that which are so close to my soul, it feels great.

 

 

Russ

Nashville

[Super 8]

The thing is , these guys, Genesis, they're all Beatles fanatics and they all love pop. In their Eton days , the decided they were serious composers, and, because the zeitgeist very much supported that delusion (as rock and roll became rock), they continued to believe that for about six records. But they love pop and rock and roll, too, and the movement in Genesis' music that starts, well , maybe starts with ..And Then There Were Three but really kicks in on Duke is not necessarily selling out--they wanted to rock; they were genuinely hip to the invigorating lessons of punk and new wave--the revival of short-forms, playful energy and lyrical directness in rock music-- for that's the paradox of rock and roll; it is deepest when it is most superficial--and the move away from the ponderous. I bet the zip of "No Reply at All" felt...liberating to those guys. And Tony didn't even have to give up his arpeggios! And they probably truly believed in their hearts, as many have, that the invigorations of new wave were NOT mutually exclusive with the harmonic and sonic adventurousness that was prog's legacy. I mean, hell, XTC is a prog band in new wave clothing. In some ways the Holy Beatles themselves were a prog band in pop clothing. Problem is, it just wasn't their strength, as Duke and ABABCAB, and, especially, everything after makes painfully clear. It's not selling out, IMO. Prog epics tend to be a young man's music (emphasis on man's). Genesis were certainly among the best at it, but a lot of people move toward shorter structures with modest ambitions and traditional forms--the depth of simplicity--as they age and mature. This is a very natural evolution of taste. This is not to say they disavow their proggy pasts or refuse to play the material to fans who still hunger for it. It was good stuff, and Genesis was one of the few bands, IMO, capable of humanizing prog. I mean you'll never hear a story as playful and gritty as "Battle of Epping Forest" from King Crimson... But can you blame them for wanting a little more groove, a little more lightness, and, perhaps most of all, a little less pretense in their music? You can't. What you can blame them for is kind of...sucking at pop. Hell, Gabriel did the same thing--never losing his avant garde earnestness but very much going in for the energy and succintness of pop rock that was the zeigeist of the early '80s. The difference is that he is better at it, 'cause he's, like, a little smarter that way. /opinion

 

 

This really about sums it up for me.

Genesis never sold out, they just bought it.

[freqdaddy]

I haven't really hung with the "Lamb' for may years ( some great memories) but I did capture the Genesis "Turn it on again" tour last fall. I had some reservations as I have an aversion to Phil's 80's/90 stuff.

Damn, it was a killer show, excellent vibe. No fluff or crap just great Genesis music, the best of their vast repertoire. It made me appreciate them all over again.