Members rasputin1963 Posted July 9, 2011 Members Share Posted July 9, 2011 Hey, have any of you had occasion to try the newest issue of Cakewalk SONAR... The "X1" release? Am I dumb and it's on here somewhere? Craig? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted July 9, 2011 Members Share Posted July 9, 2011 I reviewed it for Keyboard magazine, I think it's in the September issue. I've been using X1 since it was a release candidate. The bottom line is it was released prematurely (bugs, inconsistencies, isssues), but showed a lot of potential. The Cakewalk faithful were anywhere from mildly disappointed to outraged, but hopeful. Cakewalk did their part with two relatively quick updates, and the implementation of semi-regular hot fixes that squashed the vast majority of bugs. At this point, I'm extremely happy with the way X1 handles. It's stable, and the workflow is exceptional. I'm currently working on a Sonar X1 Master Class DVD, which Cakewalk will be distributing themselves and also, through the retail chain. I'm extremely proud of it and think it will really open some eyes about what Sonar can do (how many people realize it has an envelope follower plug-in that provides four discrete frequency bands of automation envelopes, as well as an overall band with all frequencies?). I would vote Sonar X1 and Cubase 6 as "most improved DAWs" over the last year. Although I think it's very cool that Pro Tools opened up to other hardware, I don't see as radical a set of improvements as these two DAWs. However, I just got the latest DP so I'll be looking that over soon as well. Okay, so much for the objective part. Subjective part: I love working with X1. It has a great feel, and I find myself getting projects done faster and better than I did with 8.5...which itself was pretty darn good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rasputin1963 Posted July 9, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 9, 2011 Wow, totally kewl. Thanks, Craig! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted July 9, 2011 Members Share Posted July 9, 2011 Cakewalk offered me a ridiculously low upgrade price via email, so I upgraded about a week ago from Sonar7 Studio to X1 Producer. So far, running the 64-bit version on Win7, it already seems smoother, more stable, and easier to get around than 32-bit Sonar7 was on the same machine/OS. (BTW - due to what Craig said about GR4 sounding better on higher sample-rates, I'm also trying out 88.2kHz on all my new projects.) There is actually a bit of learning curve with this upgrade. I've had a few moments of "where'd they hide the *$F*SDF*** this or that?". For instance, all the keyboard shortcuts are different for some reason. But the positives far outweigh the learning curve hassle. S'got a TON of toys to dig into when I have the leisure time....later. One great thing for poeple like me - this time they really went all out on the pdf manual - runs to 1,850 pages. I actually read manuals, so I'm a happy geek:) Haven't gotten down and dirty in X1 yet with a mixdown or detailed editing project - but already just skimming around I see tools and such that look very much worth trying out. All in all, X1 seems to have branched out significantly in both directions - making workflow faster/easier/smoother, and adding more usable tools and DSP stuff at the same time. So more complex and easier to use at the same time, which is a rare event in software-land. nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted July 9, 2011 Members Share Posted July 9, 2011 Very good point about the learning curve, and one I usually remember to mention. It's not just about a different look. For example, the different views have their own edit menus...so if you're working in track view, for example, there's a tab with clip related functions, another with track related functions, and so on. This is one of the time-savers as the menus are shorter and tighter. I should also mention that the ProChannel EQ/dynamics processor is excellent. Only the Producer Edition has that, not Studio, and I think it's worth stretching the extra bucks for Producer Edition for that reason. It's part of the Inspector, which has also been revamped - starting with the Logic-like dual channel strip. As to Nat's comments about the shortcuts, yes, they've been completely changed around. But I have to say they are more logical, it's just too bad these weren't the shortcuts from the gitgo so you didn't have to relearn them. The only element that doesn't thrill me is the redesigned control bar. It's great for dual monitor displays, otherwise it's not as flexible as the customizable "ribbon of icons" that Sonar 8.5 had. It's not a big deal, but I thought I should try to think of something I didn't like as much as previously There are bunch of little things. Waveform drawing is more accurate. I've been able to zoom down to individual samples and get rid of clicks, even though there isn't a "pencil" tool like Wavelab or Sound Forge. I don't recall that as being possible with previous versions. One other thing: You definitely want a scroll wheel on your mouse, and even better, a three-button mouse. The program takes advantage of both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SoundMuppet Posted July 11, 2011 Members Share Posted July 11, 2011 I'm in the middle of a six song project for our band and using X1. It is definately easier to work with. I like the screen layout a whole lot more than previous versions. To echo Craig, the Pro Channel really does help a lot by having it directly linked to a track and it does sound good to my inexperienced ears. I find that a dual monitor setup is almost a 'must have' otherwise your dragging and switching windows/views a whole bunch. Took me a while to find some of the things I needed to get done, but on the whole, it's pretty intuitive. I'm not sure I've dug in deep enough to have found many of the bugs but I did have a weird result when recording only to find that my track was 'significantly' offset from the actual timeline! I also have periodic crashes for no apparent reason and random loss of connection to my Onyx Blackbird. I am hoping that the new system I just built will resolve that because I suspect I was maxing out the old machine and X1 was not coping with it gracefully! We'll see how the next few weeks goes, but as I've settled into the use of X1, I can't say there is anything I hate just yet. Seems to do the job quite nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted July 11, 2011 Members Share Posted July 11, 2011 I find that a dual monitor setup is almost a 'must have' otherwise your dragging and switching windows/views a whole bunch. I have X1 installed on my laptop and I have to say, I wasn't sold at first but now I find it much better than 8.5. The secret is the whole hide/show option for things like the Inspector and Browser. But the Magic Keyboard Shortcut is "D." This lets you bring up the multidock, do your editing thing (MIDI piano roll, loop construction, step sequencer, etc.), then hit "D" again and you're back to track view. When I first started using X1, there were quite a few moments when I thought "What were they thinking?" But once I figured out the "X1 way of life," I realized that the new way was in fact better. I think the real, uh, "key" to working your way around X1 fast is the keyboard shortcuts. Once you learn the strategic ones, you can really fly around the interface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SoundMuppet Posted July 11, 2011 Members Share Posted July 11, 2011 Something I did not know! Thanks Craig. As I said, installed X1, hit the project and it's been a case of 'work it out as I go along'. Not optimal, but one heck of a way to work things out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SoundMuppet Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 As an aside. X1 was super stable this evening on my new i7 64 bit platform. First time ive been able to edit without track freezes and the proc hardly showed activity. No audio drop outs nor loss of connection to the Onyx Blackbird. Seems X1 relies on horsepower for stability. It was a productive session, finally! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members vintagevibes Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 I'm just getting started with it. I think the concept of having everything in a repeatable place is a great one. It seems they really dropped the ball in a lot of ways though. For me a lot of the frustration is the little things. Two examples: 1) You can no longer widen or narrow all clips with one click. You can click on a menu and make a choice. Or... you can make a key binding... or so it seems. The problem here is that when you go to a new screenset it doesn't have focus so you first have to click in the Console before using. So I'll just use my macro creator app. Sorry, the menus have no shortcuts. What were they thinking? 2) YOU CAN NO LONGER TRANSPOSE MULTIPLE TRACKS NON-DESTRUCTIVELY! What the h@ll were they thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lucky #9 Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 Cakewalk offered me a ridiculously low upgrade price via email, so I upgraded about a week ago from Sonar7 Studio to X1 Producer.nat whilk ii Nat: What was your upgrade price? I received, via snail mail, an upgrade offer from 8.5 to X1 Producer of $99, with an additional Welcome Kit (2 sound packs from Digital Sound Factory and tutorial samples from Groove 3 and Scott Garrigus), good to July 29. Other than the sound packs and such, the upgrade price was the same as it's always been for me. I had upgraded to 8.5 Producer for $100 just before they released X1. Then they wanted another $100 to upgrade to X1 Producer, so it would have cost me $200, in reality, to upgrade to X1 Producer, a cost/offer that I was not pleased with. Felt I got the shaft. I won't be going for this latest offer. So what was your great deal? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 1) You can no longer widen or narrow all clips with one click. You can click on a menu and make a choice. Or... you can make a key binding... or so it seems. The problem here is that when you go to a new screenset it doesn't have focus so you first have to click in the Console before using. So I'll just use my macro creator app. Sorry, the menus have no shortcuts. What were they thinking? Not sure what you're referring to, but I think it's possible to do what you want. When you mean "clip width," do you mean horizontal zoom in Track View? 2) YOU CAN NO LONGER TRANSPOSE MULTIPLE TRACKS NON-DESTRUCTIVELY! What the h@ll were they thinking? Are you referring to MIDI or audio tracks? With MIDI, you can control-click on the clips or tracks you want to transpose, and use the Process > Transpose option to transpose them all at once. Although that does modify the note pitches, you can always transpose again if you change your mind. Of course, you can transpose individual tracks without changing the original notes by using the Transpose MIDI plug-in, but that won't solve your problem of transposing all tracks simultaneously without changing the original note pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 I had upgraded to 8.5 Producer for $100 just before they released X1. Don't most software companies have some kind of grace period for people who had upgraded just prior to a new release? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members vintagevibes Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 Not sure what you're referring to, but I think it's possible to do what you want. When you mean "clip width," do you mean horizontal zoom in Track View?Are you referring to MIDI or audio tracks? With MIDI, you can control-click on the clips or tracks you want to transpose, and use the Process > Transpose option to transpose them all at once. Although that does modify the note pitches, you can always transpose again if you change your mind.Of course, you can transpose individual tracks without changing the original notes by using the Transpose MIDI plug-in, but that won't solve your problem of transposing all tracks simultaneously without changing the original note pitch. My bad. I meant strip width in the console view. I'm talking about non-destructively via key+ on MIDI tracks. I can't get the ctr-click to work with key+ (so I can only do 1 track at a time). Can you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 My bad. I meant strip width in the console view. Gotcha - you're right on both counts. You can go to the Edit View menu and go Strips > Narrow (or Widen) All Strips, or you can create a key binding if you want one-click control (I verified this). I'm talking about non-destructively via key+ on MIDI tracks. I can't get the ctr-click to work with key+ (so I can only do 1 track at a time). Can you? Nope. Have you mentioned this to Cakewalk? If Sonar had it before, it can probably have it again. I didn't realize this was an issue because when I transpose, I pretty much have committed to transposing, so I've always used the the Process > Transpose function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members vintagevibes Posted July 13, 2011 Members Share Posted July 13, 2011 Gotcha - you're right on both counts. You can go to the Edit View menu and go Strips > Narrow (or Widen) All Strips, or you can create a key binding if you want one-click control (I verified this).Nope. Have you mentioned this to Cakewalk? If Sonar had it before, it can probably have it again. I didn't realize this was an issue because when I transpose, I pretty much have committed to transposing, so I've always used the the Process > Transpose function. As far as I can tell you still have the extra click to bring the console into focus if you just brought up that screenset. Not a huge deal but I think there a lot of procedures where you end up doing more keystrokes/clicks than in 8.5. As far as transposing I use it a lot to find the best key for vocals and if I do it destructively I won't have a record of what the original key was. It's been discussed on the Sonar forum but I don't know if a bug report has been logged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted July 13, 2011 Members Share Posted July 13, 2011 As far as transposing I use it a lot to find the best key for vocals and if I do it destructively I won't have a record of what the original key was. That makes sense, now I see why you'd want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ggm1960 Posted July 14, 2011 Members Share Posted July 14, 2011 I just got the latest DP so I'll be looking that over soon as well. I don't want to hijack the thread but.....there's a new version of Digital Performer close at hand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted July 14, 2011 Members Share Posted July 14, 2011 I don't want to hijack the thread but.....there's a new version of Digital Performer close at hand? This isn't a forthcoming version, it's the most recent current version. I was a little behind the curve on getting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted July 14, 2011 Members Share Posted July 14, 2011 Nat:What was your upgrade price?I received, via snail mail, an upgrade offer from 8.5 to X1 Producer of $99, with an additional Welcome Kit (2 sound packs from Digital Sound Factory and tutorial samples from Groove 3 and Scott Garrigus), good to July 29.Other than the sound packs and such, the upgrade price was the same as it's always been for me. I had upgraded to 8.5 Producer for $100 just before they released X1. Then they wanted another $100 to upgrade to X1 Producer, so it would have cost me $200, in reality, to upgrade to X1 Producer, a cost/offer that I was not pleased with. Felt I got the shaft.I won't be going for this latest offer. So what was your great deal?Thanks Sorry I missed this question - hadn't revisited this thread for a few days. $99 to go from Sonar 8 Studio to X1 Producer. My mistake - wasn't 7, it was 8. Cakewalk, for many, many years now, updates their DAWs with great frequency. Accordingly, if you bite for each upgrade and pay rung for rung, does get a bit pricey.However, I learned way back around in the pre-Sonar years, that if I just bided my time and skipped one or more upgrades, Cakewalk would routinely offer cheap ugrade options to let upgrade-laggers like me catch up to the latest version. So my upgrade path for the last decade has been like this: $99 Sonar 8 Studio to X1 Producer in 2011$108 Sonar 4 Studio to Sonar 8 Studio in 2009$88 Sonar 2 Studio to Sonar 4 Studio in 2005$108 CW Pro Audio 9 to Sonar 2 Studio in 2002 (first one I bought was Pro Audio 3 I think, but I'll skip the rest of the details - you get the point) For a grand total of $403 to keep me in good DAW software for 10 years. I only went to X1 in a relative hurry (for me) because it's such a major upgrade, and I hoped it would also be much more stable under Windows 7, which so far it is. nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members vintagevibes Posted July 15, 2011 Members Share Posted July 15, 2011 I got X1 when they had the "loyal customer" $79 upgrade. I was holding out but I got the demo and really like the new paradigm. It is a bit half baked but they usually step up and fix things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pbognar Posted August 17, 2011 Members Share Posted August 17, 2011 I reviewed it for Keyboard magazine, I think it's in the September issue. I've been using X1 since it was a release candidate.The bottom line is it was released prematurely (bugs, inconsistencies, isssues), but showed a lot of potential. The Cakewalk faithful were anywhere from mildly disappointed to outraged, but hopeful. Cakewalk did their part with two relatively quick updates, and the implementation of semi-regular hot fixes that squashed the vast majority of bugs.At this point, I'm extremely happy with the way X1 handles. It's stable, and the workflow is exceptional. I'm currently working on a Sonar X1 Master Class DVD, which Cakewalk will be distributing themselves and also, through the retail chain. I'm extremely proud of it and think it will really open some eyes about what Sonar can do (how many people realize it has an envelope follower plug-in that provides four discrete frequency bands of automation envelopes, as well as an overall band with all frequencies?). I would vote Sonar X1 and Cubase 6 as "most improved DAWs" over the last year. Although I think it's very cool that Pro Tools opened up to other hardware, I don't see as radical a set of improvements as these two DAWs. However, I just got the latest DP so I'll be looking that over soon as well.Okay, so much for the objective part. Subjective part: I love working with X1. It has a great feel, and I find myself getting projects done faster and better than I did with 8.5...which itself was pretty darn good. I received my September Keyboard issue and I the first thing I read was the Sonar X1 review (although the Kronos article was the very next...). Anyway, the review was extremely unbiased, and I was relieved it didn't receive a "Key Buy" rating - First because it doesn't deserve to be as is, and because it would have appeared like a conflict of interest based on X1 Master Class DVD. Craig, also, a personal thanks for including the big matzo ball that the staff view remains primitive. I know you're of the opinion that staff editors aren't really a requirement for DAW software, so I appreciate you including the comment all the more. It would have been nice to have some comments about X1c, but I'm sure it wasn't available to you at the time of the review. Finally, I'm seriously considering the VS 20 as an audio interface / control surface. I wish it were USB 2.0, and had more concurrent audio inputs for future growth, but I'm a guitarist first, and I would probably only need 1 mic input for the time being. I like the idea of laying down a dry guitar part, and reamping later. The almost guaranteed compatibility with Sonar is also a plus. Anyone, feel free to talk me out of it and recommend something else for about $275. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EerieDreamZ Posted August 18, 2011 Members Share Posted August 18, 2011 First, let me state up front that I am not a power user, and dont tax my Sonar as far as it could probably go. I bought X1 six months back and it had its problems so I put it on the back burner until some of the fixes could be brought out. In the meantime I have been using Sonar 8.5.3 and its rock steady for me. Last week I restarted X1 and updated everything to the 1c update and I can only say that "for me" everything is really good in the X1 world. On the Cakewalk boards there are a lot of peoiple coming around and really starting to dig this program now, and there are still a few that are having a lot of problems. I'm using X1 with the Korg legacy collection, Ms-20, Garritan personal orchestra 4, and I just added the Eastwest Symphonic Platinum to the vst pile. I've had all four running with a combined total of 54 tracks simultaneously and not so much as a hicccup in Sonar. THAT alone makes me really happy. Take into account that everyone has their own system/computer specific to their needs and their other software and that where some of the bugs lie. Read the forums if you want to know more. My ONLY gripe is that the color scheme was taken away in X1, and mods are required to keep it from looking so damned sterile. Not so good for my eyes, but liveable at the moment. Hopefully X2 will address that issue. Hope this helps somewhat. me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted August 19, 2011 Members Share Posted August 19, 2011 Anyway, the review was extremely unbiased, and I was relieved it didn't receive a "Key Buy" rating - First because it doesn't deserve to be as is, and because it would have appeared like a conflict of interest based on X1 Master Class DVD. Well remember, I've also done books on Cubase and Reason, endorse Live for live perfomance, have done patches for Peavey, Yamaha, Alesis, Gibson, and a zillion others...I'll also be doing some instructional videos for PreSonus on mastering with Studio One Pro. And that's just the tip of the iceberg of projects I've done over the years My theory is that I have so many conflicts of interest that they cancel each other out. This aspect of my gig is basically teaching, and frankly, these companies need me more than I need them. If Cakewalk didn't offer to distribute the X1 video, I could have gotten plenty of other companies to distribute it...although Cakewalk was my first choice, because if they don't have a Sonar mailing list, I don't know who does. I should also add they didn't feed me any copy, tell me what to cover, etc. except that they did say "Well you might want to redo that step sequencer video in a few weeks..." because X1c was coming out. When I write a review, I don't think anyone really cares what I think about a product. What I try to do is describe a product as accurately as possible, and let people make up their own minds about whether it would suit their needs or not. To do that, I have to look at the product as objectively as possible. That doesn't prevent me from pointing out things I think are exceptional or dumb, but those kind of comments are not the focus of a review. I'll post later about the VS-20...it's perfect for some people, but not for others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted August 19, 2011 Members Share Posted August 19, 2011 Last week I restarted X1 and updated everything to the 1c update and I can only say that "for me" everything is really good in the X1 world. If X1c had been out when I wrote the review, I would have been pretty inclined to give it a Key Buy. I also have had very good results with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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