Reviews/Evaluations of Cakewalk SONAR PRODUCER X1?

[pbognar]

Well remember, I've also done books on Cubase and Reason, endorse Live for live perfomance, have done patches for Peavey, Yamaha, Alesis, Gibson, and a zillion others...I'll also be doing some instructional videos for PreSonus on mastering with Studio One Pro. And that's just the tip of the iceberg of projects I've done over the years My theory is that I have so many conflicts of interest that they cancel each other out. This aspect of my gig is basically teaching, and frankly, these companies need me more than I need them. If Cakewalk didn't offer to distribute the X1 video, I could have gotten plenty of other companies to distribute it...although Cakewalk was my first choice, because if they don't have a Sonar mailing list, I don't know who does. I should also add they didn't feed me any copy, tell me what to cover, etc. except that they did say "Well you might want to redo that step sequencer video in a few weeks..." because X1c was coming out. When I write a review, I don't think anyone really cares what I think about a product. What I try to do is describe a product as accurately as possible, and let people make up their own minds about whether it would suit their needs or not. To do that, I have to look at the product as objectively as possible. That doesn't prevent me from pointing out things I think are exceptional or dumb, but those kind of comments are not the focus of a review. I'll post later about the VS-20...it's perfect for some people, but not for others.

Ok, now I feel like a turd

I have never questioned your integrity - I've been a rabid fan for more years than you want to know. I trust your reviews more than anyone I read.

It was more of what other's perception might have been and I don't know what I was thinking. Forget you ever read the post.

Except I anxiously await your comments about the VS-20 , and I'm very happy to hear your opinion of X1c.

[Anderton]

I have never questioned your integrity - I've been a rabid fan for more years than you want to know. I trust your reviews more than anyone I read. It was more of what other's perception might have been and I don't know what I was thinking.

 

Not a problem at all!!!! It's a totally legitimate question. On the Cakewalk forums, when the video was announced there was a thread along the same lines but several people mentioned all the stuff I do for other companies, so I didn't even need to go in there and explain anything. People "get" that my priority is end users.

 

Others might have a perception of conflict of interest, so I'm always glad to be given the opportunity to address it. I can be rented, but I can't be bought Cakewalk has been grateful for my support, but they also know that the minute a program comes along that's better for my needs, then that's what I'll use. And while it's never stated, I think a lot of companies read what I write about their competitors. When I raved over Logic's dual channel strip architecture, interestingly enough, something similar showed up in Sonar. Now, I think the odds are that it's coincidence because of course they've seen Logic too, but you never know...I do know, however, that a parametric EQ was added in the Eleven Rack Expansion Pack, and that Avid was paying VERY close attention to the pro review where I, and several others, mentioned what a great addition it would be.

 

Ultimately, though, I also need to make a comment on the music industry in general because what I'm doing would not be possible in many other industries. As you know, this is a small industry; companies can't afford to have a staff of people dedicated to educating the public about their products. So, people like me, Jon Chappell, Phil O'Keefe, Sarah Jones, Michael Cooper, Kent Carmical, etc. etc. are valued by companies as "people who can get the word out on what this stuff is all about."

 

But these companies also understand that we're of value only if we're credible. More and more these days, reviews stress accuracy and objectively over personal opinion. For example, as you noticed I mentioned that Sonar's notation view remains undeveloped; I didn't give a value judgement. Whether people say "Without great notation Sonar is useless" or "I don't need notation anyway, and the other features rock" is not up to me, or Cakewalk for that matter - it's the readers who should be making the value judgements, based on what they read. But, readers can't draw accurate conclusions without accurate data.

 

This actually makes writing reviews much more difficult than it was in the past, because with the degree of depth of many products, it's easy to overlook something that might matter to someone. For example, I completely missed that in Version 1, Studio One Pro didn't have track folders , and I caught that just before sending in the final copy for a review.

[pbognar]

I'll post later about the VS-20...it's perfect for some people, but not for others.

 

 

Craig - nice little audio interface article in GP mag.

 

I'm looking for an audio interface for Sonar X1C - my requirements in order of decending importance:

 

- Compatibility with Sonar X1C 64bit running on Windows 7 64bit

 

- HI-Z Interface for guitar input

 

- Under $300 (would consider used)

 

- Ability to monitor recording in realtime with a minimum or no latency with guitar effects (software or hardware)

 

- Ability to record a dry guitar signal for later re-amping

 

- 2 Mic inputs would be nice for stereo recording

 

- Control surface would be nice

 

- MIDI In/Out (if I have to get a USB MIDI interface, it would not be the end of the world)

 

- USB 2 interface (however, would consider PCI if everything else was met)

 

- 44.1khz would probably be fine for me

 

 

My first thought would be the VS-20 - no MIDI nor USB 2, and only 1 mic input, but stereo mics built in

 

Quad Capture? My concern would be how bad would the latency be for monitoring recording using a software amp / effects app, such as Guitar Rig? Also would I still be able to lay down a dry guitar track?

 

Zoom R16 - I like all the mic inputs, being able to record standalone without a computer and all, but how compatible with Sonar X1 as an audio interface / control surface, and would re-amping be possible

 

M-Audio Fast Track Ultra - good number of mic inputs, but same conerns regarding X1 compatibility and direct monitoring / re-amping

 

Thanks

[Anderton]

 

Craig - nice little audio interface article in GP mag. I'm looking for an audio interface for Sonar X1C - my requirements in order of descending importance: - Compatibility with Sonar X1C 64bit running on Windows 7 64bit - HI-Z Interface for guitar input - Under $300 (would consider used) - Ability to monitor recording in realtime with a minimum or no latency with guitar effects (software or hardware) - Ability to record a dry guitar signal for later re-amping - 2 Mic inputs would be nice for stereo recording - Control surface would be nice - MIDI In/Out (if I have to get a USB MIDI interface, it would not be the end of the world) - USB 2 interface (however, would consider PCI if everything else was met) - 44.1khz would probably be fine for me My first thought would be the VS-20 - no MIDI nor USB 2, and only 1 mic input, but stereo mics built in Quad Capture? My concern would be how bad would the latency be for monitoring recording using a software amp / effects app, such as Guitar Rig? Also would I still be able to lay down a dry guitar track? Zoom R16 - I like all the mic inputs, being able to record standalone without a computer and all, but how compatible with Sonar X1 as an audio interface / control surface, and would re-amping be possible M-Audio Fast Track Ultra - good number of mic inputs, but same concerns regarding X1 compatibility and direct monitoring / re-amping Thanks

 

 

Well, your list of requirements pretty much defines the VS-20 (especially the monitoring through effects with zero latency, if you use the VS-20's COSM hardware effects), with the following exceptions:

 

- 2 Mic inputs would be nice for stereo recording. There is a stereo line input, so if you had two mic preamps, that would cover you. FYI the single mic input has phantom power.

 

- MIDI In/Out (if I have to get a USB MIDI interface, it would not be the end of the world) The VS-20 does not have a MIDI interface, so you'd need to add one or use devices that send USB over MIDI.

 

- USB 2 interface (however, would consider PCI if everything else was met). You don't really need USB 2 with a VS-20 because the bandwidth is sufficient to handle the limited number of signals. USB 2.0 is important when using higher sample rates or more channels, but isn't really necessary for something like the VS-20.

 

BTW - go to the VS-20 Landing Page and click on Support. There's a support document I wrote called "Instant Gratification with the VS-20" that you might find interesting - it gets into some of the applications.

[Anderton]

And on a different subject...I posted one of the tutorials from my "Sonar X1 Advanced Workshop" video in the HC Video Theater. It's a short one on humanizing step sequences.

[pbognar]

You don't really need USB 2 with a VS-20 because the bandwidth is sufficient to handle the limited number of signals. USB 2.0 is important when using higher sample rates or more channels, but isn't really necessary for something like the VS-20. BTW - go to the VS-20 Landing Page and click on Support. There's a support document I wrote called "Instant Gratification with the VS-20" that you might find interesting - it gets into some of the applications.

 

 

Thanks for that VS-20 info.

 

Just a quick follow-up re: the Quad Capture, what would the process be to lay down a dry guitar track, while monitoring the effected sound via Guitar Rig, assuming the latency would be tolerable?

[Anderton]

 

Thanks for that VS-20 info. Just a quick follow-up re: the Quad Capture, what would the process be to lay down a dry guitar track, while monitoring the effected sound via Guitar Rig, assuming the latency would be tolerable?

 

 

This is a great opportunity to state something that's a source of confusion with DAWs and software plug-ins: When you record, you are ALWAYS recording a dry guitar track.

 

The plug-in comes into play on playback only. So when recording, the primary requirement is to enable input echo, then pass that signal through the computer and plug-in so that you can monitor through the plug-in and hear the processed sound.

 

After recording, when you play back a guitar track, it is playing back the dry signal through the plug-in.

 

Does this all make sense?

 

Oh, and this would be an excellent time to plug my upcoming book, "The Guitarist's Guide to SONAR," published by Course Technology. It is planned as part of a series, with the next book being "The Guitarist's Guide to Pro Tools," which also covers a lot of Eleven Rack-specific material.

[pbognar]

This is a great opportunity to state something that's a source of confusion with DAWs and software plug-ins: When you record, you are ALWAYS recording a dry guitar track. The plug-in comes into play on playback only. So when recording, the primary requirement is to enable input echo, then pass that signal through the computer and plug-in so that you can monitor through the plug-in and hear the processed sound. After recording, when you play back a guitar track, it is playing back the dry signal through the plug-in. Does this all make sense? Oh, and this would be an excellent time to plug my upcoming book, "The Guitarist's Guide to SONAR," published by Course Technology. It is planned as part of a series, with the next book being "The Guitarist's Guide to Pro Tools," which also covers a lot of Eleven Rack-specific material.

This makes complete sense. I had a momentary lapse of reason. I'll definitely look for the upcoming book.

The aha moment: "So when recording, the primary requirement is to enable input echo, then pass that signal through the computer and plug-in so that you can monitor through the plug-in and hear the processed sound."

[chugheshc2]

I installed X1c last week.

I think it is pretty good so far. Watching the video explaining the differences really sold me on it though.

It does work easier, and the menus make more sense to me (for example the audio settings are part of the menus for the whole install, not each project).

Good so far, even on my weak, unsupported OS. Windows media center on 3.4ghz dual core 7 year old Dell.

[vintagevibes]

Does anyone have trouble with the Track Manager? I have to do 2 or 3 tries before it actually adds/removes the tracks and it frequently comes up with tracks checked that are not in the console tracks not checked that are in the console. Drives me crazy.

[Anderton]

 

Does anyone have trouble with the Track Manager? I have to do 2 or 3 tries before it actually adds/removes the tracks and it frequently comes up with tracks checked that are not in the console tracks not checked that are in the console. Drives me crazy.

 

 

I'm not quite sure I understand...I use the Track Manager quite a bit and haven't had problems, but I don't use the Console a lot and it sounds like that's where the issue lies. Could you be a little more specific?

[vintagevibes]

It's only in the Console view.

example 1:
I open Track Manager and uncheck all MIDI tracks
Close Track Manager and MIDI tracks are still visible in the Console

example 2:
Open Track Manager
Tracks that are not visible in the Console are checked in Track Manager
Tracks that are checked in Track Manager are not visible in the Console view

I suspect that the Track View Track Manager is intermittently coming up in the Console view.