management percentages?

So, I'm joining this band. They're not making enough money to quit the day job or anything, but they're actually making money instead of spending it. They've been at it for a few years and it's just been in the last year-and-a-half or so that they're making any money.

Anyhow, we're discussing money. One of the members is saying he wants to take a management cut since he talks to our booker/label/etc. They are also saying that this cut would be to go to them for having been in the band longer. Their proposed cut would be 15% of everything. Merch, door, royalties, licensing fees, etc.

I can understand where they're coming from, but taking a cut of future royalties seems out of hand.

Basically, I was hoping I could get opinions from you folks on here who have had managers and all of that. What did you do? What's standard? And does that cut get taken before or after expenses?

There is no limit to the amount of assholes and greedy bastards who will want to put their grubby hands in your pocket. As my (professional, honest and hard-working) manager once put it: "They're going to screw you -- it's just a matter of when, how much, and whether or not you like it!"

So.... the only difference here is that one of the money grubbing assholes may (or may not be) a band-mate. For all I know, he's completely and individually responsible for any success the band has had so far and entirely justified in expecting to get a little off the top. Does he write the music, or arrange it? Is he The Show (i.e. - the reason people pay money to see the band.) Does he get the gigs? Front money for the demos, merch and promo? Provide PA, practice space, transportation?

Dylan says "you gotta pay somebody" and it might as well be someone you trust and like. If a band member is saying he's taking 15% off the top, he should be doing all or most of the above. As for royalties, keep your writer's credits and publishing, plus an equal share of record revenues unless you're getting paid cash money to rehearse and record. Then just keep the credit and publishing revenue.

It's customary for pro managers to get 20% (and sometimes more) off the top of everything a band makes -- but they should earn it by adding much more than 20% to the overall revenue stream.

At a local/regional level, most managers are making 10% gross. That means off the top. You total up the entire revenue generated by the band for the month (gig pay, album sales, iTunes, merch, whatever) and he gets 10% before you account for expenses.

Anyone else trying to take more is just pushing b/c he thinks he probably can. But if he's talking about future royalties and copywrite, then his ego is just a bit inflated. Besides, does he have any "management" experience? Does he even know what a TM (Tour Manager) or a GM (General Manager) does by job description? To me, it would sound like he's been doing some selective reading - you know, brushing up on industry knowledge, but really just missing the whole point. Let me define for you (and what you should expect from him), so that you can make a better educated choice about whether or not you want him running things:

1. He books all the gigs.

1a. He also updates the myspace, facebook, website or what have you to reflect new dates and promos.

1b. He negotiates good money. Not okay money, but the most money you could hope to earn in that particular market.

2. He handles logistics, transportation, accomadation, food, expenses, etc.

3. He ensures that all you have to do is show up and play your instruments. That's right, no PA duty for you. If you have to bring your own, then you're doing twice the work of a normal "band" and should get a bigger cut - by your friend's own logic.

4. He books all studio time, and ensures that it's a productive experience.

5. He gets you whatever you need. No questions asked. Notice I said "need", not "want".

6. Most importantly, he balances the books.

7. He accounts for inventory control and shrink.

Now, if your buddy is doing ALL of this, without help from anyone else, then sure, go ahead and give him 10%. And you know what? I'm sure there are people out there in bands who are capable of doing all that and more. This guy may even be one of them. But I would still be hesitant about giving away royalties that haven't been earned yet. What happens if you get signed to a "real" management company down the road? Are you still paying 15% to your friend AND an additional 15% to the new manager? Think about it. Sounds like they're putting the cart before the horse.

I agree.

Before.

I must agree with that !

+100 In addition, if he's in the band and wants to take 10%...he probably shouldn't be in the band (btw I'm not advocating that you kick him out). It's better for managers to be professional and business savvy outsiders, keyword outsiders. That way the manager is less biased and there for one reason. To make the entire group money and provide the necessary steam to help push it forward. If he's a band member/manager/ bookie/etc., he could be wearing too many hats and not always make the best decisions.

I always thought the standard was 10%. I wouldn't want to give up more than 10% unless you're getting Johhny Wright.

-C

"They are also saying that this cut would be to go to them for having been in the band longer"

First I ever heard of seniority in a band.

I can understand if you’re a new member of the Rolling Stones that you can’t expect the same rewards, but this is starting to sound like a wannabe big shot.

Better nip-it-in-the-bud before he expects you to pay a percentage of his health insurance.

Big Shot Manager:

John:cool:

so...did you enroll in their 401k plan?

Basically, I would advise them this is not going to work. Offer to help out with all the things this 'manager' is doing to get your self on equal footing.

As to the royalties, that is something dependent on who does what with the writing of the music, and how you set up the arrangement of sharing any $ from sales of recordings should be negotiated; and as to merch sales, those who put the money up for buying it should get the greater benefit. This sounds like you are being treated like a hired hand, rather than a bandmember....the whole seniority thing sounds more like a power play/ego trip...are you sure you want to work with these people?