Looking for Preamp Opinions

I'm looking to get an opinion from people who have more experience with higher end gear than I do.

I currently have and have had for some time a Behringer 2004a mixer. Yes I know. Behringer. Boo. Moving on though

I've been doing a lot more recording recently and my signal path is basically Shure SM57s, Senn 421s and AT3035s into the 2004a into my MOTU MKII interface and then in Cubase SX.

It seems my recordings lack a certain definition, they seem very grainy and loose. I'm assuming since my mics are good, the instruments are good etc, the Behringer preamps are the weakness in my signal path.

Would upgrading from the Behringer 2004a to say a Mackie Onyx 800R mic preamp unit improve my overall results considerably or would it be a very small improvement? Do I need to make a jump from the Behringer to a more high end preamp like a Vintech Neve clone to see any drastic improvements?

Any input would be awesome.

For reference, a couple of demo songs I've recorded for a friends band can be found here: http://myspace.com/themacraterror

i dunno, i dont know the behringer preamps. i dont know the mackie onyx either really. i do know that a preamp alone probably wont get you definition on its own, but cheaper preamps can tend to be "loose" and "grainy". i would decide how many channels you need. if its only a few, i might invest in a good 2 channel preamp. i kinda like the pacifica if i had to pick a desert island preamp that is in current production, but thats onyl because how i hear it and what i want it to sound like.

you mics could use some work, none are really that special and dynamic mics tend to sound more dull that condensers, but the 3035 [if its the mic i am thinking of] is a grainy sounding mic so it could be your problem right there. the mic makes so much more difference than the preamp. i would say something like a gefell 295 into your behringer preamp would give you a much more clear sound than your 57/421/3035 into any neve preamp [including the OG's]

From my understanding (I've never owned Behringer or Mackie Onyx stuff), the Onyx would be a noticeable step up.

For cheap mic preamps that sound good, I highly recommend the FMR RNPs, which are about $500 and has two mic preamps. I own two of these, and they sound beautiful, clear, and open. And while I'm not sure what "loose" describes, they are responsive and definitely not "grainy". These two mics sit right alongside a Neve Portico and a Peavey VMP-2, and despite the greater cost of those two, I still use the RNPs as well.

I really enjoy the Neve Portico, which is also a two-preamp unit, although more than three times the cost of an RNP. It's gorgeous sounding, and has Silk Mode, which creates this beautiful warmth and girth through some sort of pleasing harmonic distortion. Or it sounds clear and open when in "Normal" mode.

The Peavey VP-2 is no longer made, but is a dual tube mic preamp with EQ that is extremely useful and very nice sounding, and fairly colored (not open sounding). Awesome for drum overheads and electric guitars and basses. I bought this quite a few years ago for $600 used, and absolutely love it.

While I do think an extremely high end mic would probably sound respectable through the Behringer, I'm not sure I agree that the 57 and 421 shouldn't produce very acceptable results on their own. Especially on sources such as drums and guitars. From what I gather these are pretty standard mics for those instruments and have produced more than acceptable results for engineers for years.

I've definetly been tempted by the FMR RNPs, I was hoping to make use of my MOTU 2408s ADAT optical inputs with an 8 channel preamp unit, this way I can have an additional 8 inputs via the Behringer still for scratch guitars and extra channels in a pinch, etc.

There you go. That'd be a great way to go. I have my Mackie VLZ Pro mixer on standby, and it works really well in that capacity. I really like the FMR stuff a lot. All of it is good, but my RNPs get some serious use. I just got an RNLA (compressor) not so long ago, and that's in the signal chain a lot now as well.

If you are looking for good quality mic preamps on a budget, get a Soundcraft 12 channel mixer. 12 pretty darn good mic preamps for around $500.

Maybe not in the same league as the RNP, but still a good deal for a bunch of very nice workable mic pre's.

The Vintech Dual 72 will smoke those B______er preamps, as will the FMR RNP. Actually, if my experience is indicative, the B______er preamps will create smoke of their own sooner or later... just a different kind.

Hehe; I thought you might say something along those lines.

you dont need super high end mics.... i was just illustrating by an example. there are some very capable mid priced mics that if you cant get a good sound on, its most likely your technique elsewhere. however, you do probably need a bit better preamps as well.... even the new mackie onyx would probably be a decent upgrade... but there are literally loads of preamps in all price ranges including DIY ones.

i really like a lot of the new lower priced ribbons, you can crank the highs on those to brighten them up and have a really full sound. i prefer any ribbon on drum OH than most condensors.

even the 40series from AT are quite nice. you are a step below that with yours. find a nice 4050 or 4060 used. maybe look into those mojave mics. not too expensive. the new heil mics. there are literally lots of options right now in gear... a lot of which wont fully break your wallet like some super high end LDC will.

also, if you are using those stock cubase EQ's... those are fairly grainy sounding compared to mostof ht new 3rd party EQ's out there. just another thought.

Yeah, those are pretty good preamps, especially for the money. We're using them to record our rehearsals, and they sound quite good. I generally like Soundcraft stuff anyway. Good, solid, dependable, good-sounding stuff.

I use a 12 channel Soundcraft for my live sound rig at bluegrass festivals and I record a lot of live music with it. For the $439 I paid for it, the sound is really quite good. I have gotten some pristine acoustic recordings..

I now have my eye on a new Soundcraft FX16.. Love them pre's.

The claim is that they use the GB30 mic pre in their lower cost boards and in the high end LX7ii and other much more expensive boards. It sounds like it to me.

I've talked to a number of people who prefer the Soundcraft boards to the (roughly) equivalent Mackie boards: EQ, mic preamps, everything.

Not to move the topic, but how do the Soundcraft boards sound compared to the Allen and Heath or Yamaha boards?

I don't have an Allen & Heath.. wish I did....but I have a couple Yamaha MG series mixers and the Soundcraft is cleaner and quieter.

I do a lot of live recording using inserts so the only interface is the mic preamp and the Soundcraft mic preamps are about as quiet as any board preamps I have used, with the exception of Yamaha digital consoles, which had excellent mic preamps and provided really clean quiet recordings..

Most of my live recordings are acoustic and the noise floor is pretty obvious when the tracks get into the computer.

Of course, other than a $20,000 Yamaha digital console, I haven't used big dollar high end commercial consoles.

But for the money, in a small format mixer, the Soundcraft mic preamps are very nice. I am seriously looking at a Soundcraft FX16 instead of an A & H Mixwizard right now. A little less money.