Would life under a Black President change the pop music?

I'm wondering: Just assuming that Obama and his lovely family become president and First Family (I'm personally hoping as much, but that's neither here-nor-there, and this is not a political thread) do you suppose the sound of popular music will change?

My thought is this: Much Rap music of the past 27 years (plenty of reggae as well) has been, in effect, Protest music about how the Black man can't get ahead because "The Man" keeps him down, etc., etc.

Well, if the highest "glass ceiling" in the land has been shattered, won't that change the tenor-- maybe even the subject matter-- of much American pop music?

What say you, SSS'ers?

If the irony of guys like 50 Cent rapping about how the black man can't get ahead in America doesn't sink in now, I doubt it ever will.

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? My thought is this: Much Rap music of the past 27 years (plenty of reggae as well) has been, in effect, Protest music about how the Black man can't get ahead because "The Man" keeps him down, etc., etc.

Well, I haven't much kept up with rap since the heyday of Public Enemy, De la Soul, Tribe Called Quest, and Brand Nubian (that was my rap) but the above seems to me a gross simplification of rap's messages, even for the purposes of the question being posed.

Doesn't sound to me like most rappers are aspiring to be district managers...the message I get from modern rap is one that is more implicitly secessionist in a way. It's about, uh, alternative economies.

BTW, do you really think ghettoization and socio-economic marginalization is a dead horse? I think it is alive and kicking more than ever!

But in any case, to answer the question, no. The issue is not and has never been how high an individual can rise. I don't see how Obama's or any other individual's success resolves or quiets a conflict as pervasive and defining as race in America. Read some James Baldwin. He saw it more clearly that just about anyone, imo.

no

Can't really address that without getting political. The idea that a black president puts to rest the glass ceiling is neither here nor there. The USA is slowly, fitfully, making its way to post-racial society. No doubt there are pockets of discrimination, reverse discrimination, and other problems. Those issues are judiciously ignored by mainstream entertainment, and will not change regardless of the color of the president's skin.

I can only speak as a resident of the UK, Ras

Quite frankly, people over here really don't give a rat's arse about who the President of the United States is, be he black or white

So our music will just go merrily on its own way, as it's always done

... after years of white supremacy

we are in deep need for some serious black music

Perhaps so. Still, it's a predominant theme. I just wanted to get the ball rolling on this subject, though.

A little OT but a little on-T too...

"...Now I am perfectly aware that there are other slums in which white men are fighting for their lives, and mainly losing. I know that blood is also flowing through those streets and that the human damage there is incalculable. People are continually pointing out to me the wretchedness of white people in order to console me for the wretchedness of blacks. But an itemized account of the American failure does not console me and it should not console anyone else. That hundreds of thousands of white people are living, in effect, no better than the

This observation seems particularly trenchant.

People keep trying to think in gross oversimplifications -- lumping one slice of the world in this category and the remaining slice in that category...

And if there is one thing that we can really know for sure -- it's that the world simply doesn't work that way.

I was talking with a black conservative friend (who is, himself, fairly disaffected from his old pals the neocons; I suspect he might be voting Bob Barr/Libertarian but it's highly unlikely he would vote Democratic; all but impossible, I'd say). He used to be a sports reporter (he's in p.r. now that he's started a family) but he occasionally covered hard news.

So we were talking about the election and people's perceptions of it and one thing we agreed on is that there are probably a lot of people who are projecting their wishes and desires on Obama and that many of them are likely to be disappointed that he can't wave a magic wand (should he be elected, that is) and solve this or that vexing social problem that's been standing for decades.

I noted, and he agreed, that while there are a lot of sophisticated black voters, there are likely to be some quite naive ones who naturally assume that having a black man in the White House would mean a big up for conditions facing black people.

If anything, it seems to me, Obama would be very hard pressed to do anything special for black people in his capacity as president.

His informal affirmation to Edwards that he would work to eliminate poverty would mean that he could address some of the same problems that afflict impoverished people of all colors; that said, while poverty does affect a high percentage of black people, it affects many more whites and latinos in terms of sheer numbers.

With regards to pop music, I really don't pay much attention to what's popular except to make sure every so often that most of it is still insultingly puerile. It is.

Is that not cynical? I'd think his mere presence alone would mean a huge symbolic change.

No.

Originally Posted by rasputin1963 Well, if the highest " glass ceiling " in the land has been shattered , won't that change the tenor -- maybe even the subject matter-- of much American pop music?

I think it takes a soprano to shatter a glass ceiling.

If I'm recalling my Memorex commercials correctly...

Slightly OT on this OT, but if I was managing Obama's campaign, I'd forget about this "black president" thing because the guy had a white mom and black father...so by that standard you could call him a "white president" if you wanted to.

Instead, I'd use the slogan "Elect a hybrid! What works for cars will work for the country!"

But to address the original question...pop music seems less and less tied to issues. So if the issues changes, pop music seems fairly insulated from those changes anyway.

Second part first: absolutely. Huge food for much thought in the black community, I would imagine.

First part: cynical?

Hardly.

What would be wrong would be if a black president singled out black people for special help. Happily, I think it's pretty clear that this guy isn't built like that. (The constitutional law scholar angle kind of helps inform his views, I would imagine.)

Well and this is apt in another way too, in that the "glass ceiling" was a feminist meme more than an African American one. African-American activists have complained more about, say, imprisonment rates more than workplace discrimination...

Slightly OT on this OT, but if I was managing Obama's campaign, I'd forget about this "black president" thing because the guy had a white mom and black father...so by that standard you could call him a "white president" if you wanted to. Instead, I'd use the slogan "Elect a hybrid! What works for cars will work for the country!"

Brilliant!

Yeah... I think it's clear that Obama has to handle the issue of his race very carefully.

That's why it's seemed like the worst kind of cynicism when (now several of) his opponents have accused him of "playing the race card."

The last thing Obama wants to do is play the race card.

He is utterly loathe to appear the victim, as far as I can see, and, clearly, there is little strategic value at this point in reminding social-change-resistant voters that he is black.

That's exactly what I was after with my comment about alternative economies. The materialist message of gangsta rap seems to me to be about anything but privation

Back in my day, workplace discrimination was a huge issue -- and for good reason.

I saw mostly very decent people acting out of (what I'd like to think was unconscious) racial prejudgment all the time in the workplace back in the 60s, 70s, and into the 80s.

Clearly, it still goes on, but there have been enormous positive changes in many workplaces.

I think it's clear that, even if most white folks when I was 20 were highly skeptical that most black people would ever be able to work in environments like modern offices and corporations, as more and more blacks and other people of color have entered the job mainstream that those doubts have, to varying degrees been mitigated.

Of course, there is still plenty of racial prejudice -- though, just as 30 or 40 years ago, the people most in its sway are the first and loudest to deny its presence in themselves -- but we, as a people, have come a long way since the terrible days of the late 50s and early 60s that made a huge impression on me when I was a kid and first watching and reading the news.

(When you're a kid and some other kid is killed by adults -- it really shakes you up. When those little girls got killed in the church bombing in Birmingham in 1963, it really woke me up. Then I discovered the Klan memorabilia of a deceased, disaffected member of my family -- the postcards of lynchings, people being burned alived -- in one memorable post card -- all properly stamped and cancelled by the US Post Office when it was sent openly through the mail -- a grizzly scene of a black man being skinned alive... when you're ten years old, that stuff can make a real impression on you.)

Right. Otherwise, we'd have had some popular music that critically addressed the myriad of issues we've faced in the last eight years. I don't recall seeing jack {censored} hit the charts in terms of protest songs. Since the entertainment industry has long since become part of the establishment, it's unlikely that it'll ever happen again the way it once did, regardless of the race or political affiliation of the country's leadership.

I mean, if Toby Keith and the Dixie Chicks are the best we can do...

I think Obama blew his chances by selecting Biden as his running mate.

"The candidate of change" chose an entrenched member of the Washinton status quo.

If McCain picks Romney, or (this would be brilliant) Lieberman, then McCain really does become the "change" candidate.

(O-O-OT)

Hey Blue, I didn't mean to imply that African Americans don't face workplace discrimination--just that I think the metaphor and phrase "glass ceiling" has its origin in feminism.

you've got it backwards. it's president, then vice president

Slightly OT on this OT, but if I was managing Obama's campaign, I'd forget about this "black president" thing because the guy had a white mom and black father...so by that standard you could call him a "white president" if you wanted to. Instead, I'd use the slogan "Elect a hybrid! What works for cars will work for the country!"

I was hoping someone would being this up...It's a very "telling" part of Obama's mentality.

You and I both know he's 1/2 black, 1/2 white, but he himself chose (at around age 8, iirc from his book) that explaining to people that he was 1/2 was something he considered "engraciating himself to white people", so he chose to personally relate to only his black heritage, forgoing his mother's side entirely.

This is a theme in his personal life that points to his choice of church, spouse, personal relationships...Even his staff (almost entirely black). Now, we've all heard a lot about his church, but do some research for yourself and you'll see it is one of many black-only "Africa is the promised land" type churches around the country. They believe blacks are God's chosen race, they swear an oath to "Mother Africa" in their mission statement, and state that everything they do is for the furthering of Africans (and post-Africans), alone. (Please look it up before you argue with this...It's all on their website and not hard to find).

Now, I'm all in favor of people appreciating their heritage, whether that be black, Native American, Hispanic, or whatever, but there is a difference between being proud of your heritage and being racist. I will say I'm uncomfortable with someone who has sworn an allegiance to another country (or continent...In this case, Africa) being the President of this country...Where are his priorities?

There are undoubtedly people planning to vote for him based on his color - both black and white - and there are I'm sure some ignorant people planning on "not" voting for him based on his color as well...Personally I feel both sides are wrong...Don't vote for him because he's a bigot and because of his lack of qualifications...Not because he's 1/2 black.

I'm sorry, I know these are very unpopular views, but look it all up, it's not based off Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, etc...It's based off his book and his church's website.

More "on" the off topic...I don't see how his presidency would affect music in any way, except that no one will be able to afford equipment or studio time will all the new taxes to pay to convert the country to Socialism.