Members cincy_cosmo Posted May 21, 2009 Members Share Posted May 21, 2009 OK, I'm a gear-head. I buy stuff and sell it all the time just trying to stimulate ideas and playing. I recently bought a multi effects pedal and on first try, thought it sucked and was ready to send it back, but stuck with it and did some testing. I turned every thing off in the pedal and played my guitar straight through and still thought something was wrong. Then I bypassed the unit all together and plugged straight into the amp. GUESS WHAT? It sounded exactly the sucky-same. The tone wasn't stinking...my ears were. I know studio engineers have some rituals they go through to calibrate their ears. There have been times when I needed to practice but simply could not stand my own tone and put the guitar down because I couldn't get into it. Is there anything guitarists could/should do to condition their perception of sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Caleb B Posted May 21, 2009 Members Share Posted May 21, 2009 Well, on the fact that the most important component is hearing I'd have to agree. Shoot, people play one handed or 4 fingered, but if you're deaf, not gonna happen. I have no conditioning advice though. Are you losing hearing or what? There's a simple one for that, but I don't think that's what you're saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cincy_cosmo Posted May 21, 2009 Author Members Share Posted May 21, 2009 Well, on the fact that the most important component is hearing I'd have to agree. Shoot, people play one handed or 4 fingered, but if you're deaf, not gonna happen. I have no conditioning advice though. Are you losing hearing or what? There's a simple one for that, but I don't think that's what you're saying. I am loosing hearing...but that is not the issue here. I am finding that my ability to call something 'good tone' vs. 'bad tone' is less than consistent. I am thinking that it has to do with what I was hearing before starting to play. There could be other factors...I dunno. Just wondering if anyone else has that issue and what can be done about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members crashclc Posted May 21, 2009 Members Share Posted May 21, 2009 Hmmm.... consistently sucky sound even when you eliminate everything else from the signal chain except the guitar? Sounds to me like (a) your guitar sucks or (b) your amp sucks or © they both suck. But IMO most crappy tone comes from overdoing it. Adding an FX pedal on top of an amps own effects almost always ends up giving you just a bunch of distorted noise. But since you've eliminated the pedal already, I'm guessing you're also overdoing the effects on the amp. Have you tried dialing back all of the amp's own effects and base, mid, treble etc? Try that first and then then start adding back a little at a time. You might be surprised how much better it sounds and how little extra "color" you need from the amp to get a nice clean sound. Once you have that nailed, if you want to go dirty, then either add gain, or use the drive channel (if the amp has one) FWIW when I play through my effects processor (Boss GT-10), I plug the guitar into the Boss and then plug the output from the Boss into the effects return on the amp. That way all of the amp's own preamp effects are cancelled out and I am just using the power stage of my amp to amplify the signal the Boss is delivering. On amps that don't have an effects return jack, I cut the amp's effects way back (effectively doing the same thing) It sounds great BTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mikey4402 Posted May 21, 2009 Members Share Posted May 21, 2009 i belive you acceptablitiy of 'good tone' is rasied as you improve your playing and your ear (listing to other artists tone etc as well as bettering your ear diatonically). listein to recordings of you playing in the past. See if your tone has gotten better through out the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mikey4402 Posted May 21, 2009 Members Share Posted May 21, 2009 Is there anything guitarists could/should do to condition their perception of sound? If your talking about tone, which im assuming you still are, try listining to ofter artitsts. Instead if trying to understand the notes they are playing, try to figure out what effects are being used, what pickup is selected etc. Guitarests like David Gilmour and John Fruscantie have websites devoted to the pedals they use and it would be easy to research to find out what they use at what time. If your looking into improving your interear look into interval traning. Earmaster pro is a good free software. Perhaps you are bending some notes out of tune, which make you sound like crap. I dont know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nuke_diver Posted May 21, 2009 Members Share Posted May 21, 2009 Personally I think you can have different tone on different days too. Some days I think my amp sounds great and there isn't any need to change anything. Other days I don't like the sound so much. What changed? It's the same guitars/amp/pedals and player. I suspect it has to do with the mood I'm in and how critical I am of my playing For those days if I'm recording my playing I don't listen back right away. If I'm not recording I just ignore it and push through...or give up for the day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jrockbridge Posted May 21, 2009 Members Share Posted May 21, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grantus Posted May 21, 2009 Members Share Posted May 21, 2009 Ears are definitely important. Some people won't know good tone if it walked up and hit them in the nutsack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hubert Stumblin Posted May 21, 2009 Members Share Posted May 21, 2009 As an engineer my advice to you is to drink heavily.....oh, no, wait.... Seriously, when I'm trying to dial in a nice tone with my rig (all too rare these days) the first thing I do is move my amp into the largest space I have in my house. I think it's important to have a good amount of air to move and to be able to stand back from the amp a-ways. Then adjust for a nice clean tone sans 'verb or anything else on the amp other than it's tone contols. While your doing that I think it helps to play a lot of colorful chords in different places up and down the neck. Full chords, not power chords. Strum slowly, almost appegiate the chords to let each note ring out. Adjust amp controls accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members benzem Posted May 21, 2009 Members Share Posted May 21, 2009 ah....you're TEACHING us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blingdogg Posted May 21, 2009 Members Share Posted May 21, 2009 interesting thread.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Davo17 Posted May 21, 2009 Members Share Posted May 21, 2009 Your ears are the most important gear you have. I was lucky enough to have been taught to use my ears as I was learning music. Later on when I picked up guitar I feel it really helped. I am able to find what sounds "musical". Ive been playing latley with some guys with high end gear, some of which are even very "technical" players. And their tone is horrible. Sounds bad alone and even worse with a band.If people spent more time learning to use their gear, and listening as opposed to buying gear, theyd be better off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eddie Posted May 21, 2009 Members Share Posted May 21, 2009 Is there anything guitarists could/should do to condition their perception of sound? A few things that helped me enormously: -Learning from others. The band leader of a band I played in used to say stuff like "raise 2db at 500Hz." He has great ears and inspired me to improve. -Playing with better musicians. The guy mentioned above once yelled at me, in front of 1500 people, "shut the %$@% up, you play like $hit." I was not listening to the band and was overplaying. I was an overly enthusiastic kid Lesson learned. -Learning other instruments. That gave me a better perspective on how different instruments work together, the roles they have within the song, etc. -Talking to more experienced musicians. They would explain what they were hearing. For example, compression, transients, overtones. -Recording music. This really put things in perspective. I got the book "Blues: 10 Complete Scores, MI Workshop Series" and recorded each instrument. I don't play drums but I programmed them. Getting a good mix was a challenge. My timing -which I always thought was OK- was not good enough when recording, particularly the bass. This process opened me up for more critical listening. Specific to sound and tone, I learned to shape the sounds in the context of the song. A great isolated guitar sound sometimes sounds crappy with the rest of the instruments. A crappy sound by itself sometimes blends wonderfully with the rest of the instruments. -Reading a lot of material about mixing and mastering. -Doing some ear training exercises for relative pitch, identifying chords, identifying different frequencies, etc. I'm currently working on this. -Playing around with plugins. For example, Native Instruments' B4 lets you add the fundamental note and the overtones, and you can regulate the level of each one. Using equalizers and listening how cuts and boosts in different frequencies shape the sound. -Learning about gear. Specifically, getting a pair of Grado Headphones was an ear-opening experience. Each of these had a positive impact on my listening skills, which are still evolving. The way I listen to music is different now than it was 5 years ago, and that's different than 10 years ago. I like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eddie Posted May 21, 2009 Members Share Posted May 21, 2009 ...Guitarests like David Gilmour and John Fruscantie have websites devoted to the pedals they use and it would be easy to research to find out what they use at what time... As well as stories about the studio "tricks" being used. Like Gilour playing straight into the console and using compressor, or recording with a small amp, then going to a stadium in Los Angeles, playing his recorded guitar through a HUGE PA system, and recording that sound. Sometimes tone is in the fingers...of the engineer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Davo17 Posted May 21, 2009 Members Share Posted May 21, 2009 A few things that helped me enormously: -Learning from others. The band leader of a band I played in used to say stuff like "raise 2db at 500Hz." He has great ears and inspired me to improve. -Playing with better musicians. The guy mentioned above once yelled at me, in front of 1500 people, "shut the %$@% up, you play like $hit." I was not listening to the band and was overplaying. I was an overly enthusiastic kid Lesson learned. -Learning other instruments. That gave me a better perspective on how different instruments work together, the roles they have within the song, etc. -Talking to more experienced musicians. They would explain what they were hearing. For example, compression, transients, overtones. -Recording music. This really put things in perspective. I got the book "Blues: 10 Complete Scores, MI Workshop Series" and recorded each instrument. I don't play drums but I programmed them. Getting a good mix was a challenge. My timing -which I always thought was OK- was not good enough when recording, particularly the bass. This process opened me up for more critical listening. Specific to sound and tone, I learned to shape the sounds in the context of the song. A great isolated guitar sound sometimes sounds crappy with the rest of the instruments. A crappy sound by itself sometimes blends wonderfully with the rest of the instruments. -Reading a lot of material about mixing and mastering. -Doing some ear training exercises for relative pitch, identifying chords, identifying different frequencies, etc. I'm currently working on this. -Playing around with plugins. For example, Native Instruments' B4 lets you add the fundamental note and the overtones, and you can regulate the level of each one. Using equalizers and listening how cuts and boosts in different frequencies shape the sound. -Learning about gear. Specifically, getting a pair of Grado Headphones was an ear-opening experience. Each of these had a positive impact on my listening skills, which are still evolving. The way I listen to music is different now than it was 5 years ago, and that's different than 10 years ago. I like that Eddie nailed it. Among other things good musicians listen to each other, and constantly adjust accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members roygbiv Posted May 21, 2009 Members Share Posted May 21, 2009 Not a problem for me. I listen through my nose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eddie Posted May 21, 2009 Members Share Posted May 21, 2009 Thanks for reading my long pos Davo17 I forgot to mention 2 things: -On stage, my band was NOT loud at all. We tried to play at a comfortable level, but always turning the sound down if possible. We had drums, bass, 2 guitars (Strat and Les Paul through Marshalls), keyboards, harmonica, lead and background vocals. -On the advise of our keyboard player, I wore earplugs. Considering Sir George Martin went deaf, Clapton is going deaf, Townshend has had many problems, etc., taking care of our hearing is essential. Don't use explosions on stage, and check out: http://www.hearnet.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Angry Tele Posted May 21, 2009 Members Share Posted May 21, 2009 I know dudes that when in highschool could dial in any amp and make it sound good. I think it just takes practice and an innate ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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