DIYers: Most economical way to get into finishing?

[u6crash]

I know the answer is probably nitro in cans, and though I sometimes admire the look of aged nitro, sometimes I want something that is going to last forever. Assuming I have nothing in terms of finishing equipment, what's the best way to start for single guitar/neck applications of poly (or whatever you're finishing with)?

[Funderbunk]

 

I know the answer is probably nitro in cans, and though I sometimes admire the look of aged nitro, sometimes I want something that is going to last forever. Assuming I have nothing in terms of finishing equipment, what's the best way to start for single guitar/neck applications of poly (or whatever you're finishing with)?

 

 

I've done a few guitars with good old Krylon in spraycans. Sure, it's not all vintage like nitro, but it finishes nicely if you use thin enough layers and let it cure well before final finishing.

 

The most recent is still hanging here, waiting for final polishing, and I figured that I spent about $30 all told.

[alex9152]

 

I've done a few guitars with good old Krylon in spraycans. Sure, it's not all vintage like nitro, but it finishes nicely if you use thin enough layers and let it cure well before final finishing. The most recent is still hanging here, waiting for final polishing, and I figured that I spent about $30 all told.

 

How long is long enough before final finishing, and should I apply clear coat? It's been about a week now since the last coat.

 

Sorry for the hijack.

[Elias Graves]

About any finish you want is available in cans. Hobby stores have auto laquer in cans with spray tips that atomize extremely well. You can get some nice finishes from those.

 

I'm going really old school on my sg with a French polish shellac finish. Beautiful stuff, easy to apply and repairable. Prior to nitro, shellac was THE choice for high end makers. Still is for the very expensive handmade guitars.

 

EG

[sunntone]

If you're talking "getting in to finishing" you don't want cans... you want a LPHV gun for about 30-50 bucks and mix your own colors and can use polys or laquer.

 

Cans are a joke, i've used them a few times now and I am ready to bring the gun in to use.

[sunntone]

About any finish you want is available in cans. Hobby stores have auto laquer in cans with spray tips that atomize extremely well. You can get some nice finishes from those. I'm going really old school on my sg with a French polish shellac finish. Beautiful stuff, easy to apply and repairable. Prior to nitro, shellac was THE choice for high end makers. Still is for the very expensive handmade guitars. EG

French Polish

similar to laquer w/o the solvent usually denatured alcohol. Very hard to do this well, time consuming, but certainly the very best finish for an instrument if we're talking resonating characteristics and beauty.

[u6crash]

 

If you're talking "getting in to finishing" you don't want cans... you want a LPHV gun for about 30-50 bucks and mix your own colors and can use polys or laquer. Cans are a joke, i've used them a few times now and I am ready to bring the gun in to use.

 

 

The cost of the gun doesn't bother me...it's the cost of the compressor, the regulators, the air dryers, etc. If I knew I were going to be finishing multiple guitars for years to come, okay, but if I'm only ever going to do 1-3, then I don't want all that stuff.

[Elias Graves]

French Polish similar to laquer w/o the solvent usually denatured alcohol. Very hard to do this well, time consuming, but certainly the very best finish for an instrument if we're talking resonating characteristics and beauty.

 

Not really like nitro at all. Shellac is a natural resin secreted by a beetle. The solvent is ethanol.

 

Nitro is a petroleum product.

 

Time consuming, yes, but not especially difficult. A glossier finish can't be had this side of a mirror.

 

EG

[sunntone]

 

The cost of the gun doesn't bother me...it's the cost of the compressor, the regulators, the air dryers, etc. If I knew I were going to be finishing multiple guitars for years to come, okay, but if I'm only ever going to do 1-3, then I don't want all that stuff.

 

 

yeah that's basically the dividing line I'd say... more than 3 planned, def get a gun. Compressor can be had for 50-60 from a hobby shop. It's a low pressure system you don't need a powerful compressor. Plus you use less paint, less overspray.

 

For a few guitars go with cans. Just make sure you keep them warm (in a warm bath) never spray with a cool or cold can. And if you {censored} up, STOP, let it dry completely for a day and then wet sand it out.

 

Patience is key with finishing, THE key

[Orange Jackson]

Lot of good info here, plus they have a forum.

 

http://reranch.com/

[stanfield]

Please consider using Tung oil. Very easy to apply, very durable, easy to maintain. Just a thought.

 

http://www.house-painting-info.com/tung-oil-finish.html

 

[sunntone]

 

Not really like nitro at all. Shellac is a natural resin secreted by a beetle. The solvent is ethanol. Nitro is a petroleum product. Time consuming, yes, but not especially difficult. A glossier finish can't be had this side of a mirror. EG

 

 

laquer can be applied with a brush or by wiping on as well. It is also a thinner more resonant option - this is where i drew the similarities, not the nature of the material.

 

thanks EG

[sunntone]

Please consider using Tung oil. Very easy to apply, very durable, easy to maintain. Just a thought. http://www.house-painting-info.com/tung-oil-finish.html

 

It is my opinion that pure tung oil is not a good choice (can be very tacky) and does not let wood breathe very well.

[Elias Graves]

Tung oil does make a nice finish.

 

If spraying, keep it CLEAN. Patience. Don't rush the drying. Anything with a petroleum solvent takes time to cure.

 

EG

[sunntone]

Anything with a petroleum solvent takes time to cure. EG

 

so does shellac

[Runn3r]

minwax wipe on poly

[Elias Graves]

so does shellac

 

 

True. French Polish method, however, applies such fine coats that the alcohol evaporates almost immediately.

 

Merely trying to reinforce the patience advice. I didn't expect anyone would listen to me about shellac. It seems to be out of favor these days.

 

I've made the mistake of rushing curing times before and went in to do some sanding before it was ready. What a mess. Laquer and poly seem to take forever to fully cure under normal conditions.

 

Patience really is key in any finishing work regardless of what you are putting on. Preparation of the piece and keeping the dirt out are vital as well. Make yourself a makeshift clean room by hanging sheets of plastic from the ceiling. That helps a lot.

 

EG

[PlinytheWelder]

Tru-Oil, http://www.birchwoodcasey.com/sport/wood_index.asp?categoryID=5&subcat=11 is a very forgiving finish if you want a natural wood grain look.

[Funderbunk]

 

How long is long enough before final finishing, and should I apply clear coat? It's been about a week now since the last coat. Sorry for the hijack.

 

 

I use clear coat. The real gloss comes from the final sanding and polishing, and I'd rather remove clearcoat than color coat. Even using a whole can of clear, your final finish is still rather thin.

 

How long is long enough? I'm not sure there's a hard and fast rule. I tend to be cautious and let them cure probably longer than is necessary. This last one has been curing for about a month now. I'm sure it didn't need this long, but to be honest I've just been too dang busy to dedicate a full night or two for the final sanding and polishing.

 

As others have noted, patience is the definite key - even more so if you're using cans and not a spray rig with a two-part catalyzed finish. Besides sanding/polishing too soon, you can also get impatient during the sanding/polishing and rush it and - whoops - you polished right through your finish! Messing up that late in the process is really really frustrating.

[Epiphone SG]

Shellac. Natural, easily removable, easoily tinted, great feel, nontoxic, durable.

[PoppyPoo]

http://reranch.com/101.htm

 

Read, read again. Once you feel comfortable with it, read it again. Then once more. Then at least twice more. Then finish it off with a few more reads.

 

You can get great finishes using cans. Unless you plan on spraying multiple guitars, cans should be fine for you. Even then, many people choose to stick with cans

[sunntone]

True. French Polish method, however, applies such fine coats that the alcohol evaporates almost immediately. Merely trying to reinforce the patience advice. I didn't expect anyone would listen to me about shellac. It seems to be out of favor these days. I've made the mistake of rushing curing times before and went in to do some sanding before it was ready. What a mess. Laquer and poly seem to take forever to fully cure under normal conditions. Patience really is key in any finishing work regardless of what you are putting on. Preparation of the piece and keeping the dirt out are vital as well. Make yourself a makeshift clean room by hanging sheets of plastic from the ceiling. That helps a lot. EG

 

you said it - patience is right. Yeah, true shellac "dries" almost instantly because of the alcohol, but it's the curing that matters and where most beginners screw up their finish by rushing the cure and thinking it's "dry", which is may be, but it's not cured.

 

I think shellac looks great but for me it's way easier to get nitro in cans from re ranch or mix just laquer with laquer thinner to apply with a gun etc

[normh]

Your choices without buying compressors and spray guns are:

Aerosol or wipe on Lacquer, either Nitrocellulose or acrylic;

Aerosol or wipe on Polyurethane;

KTM, Shellac, or Tung oil (French polish, Danish polish, etc).

 

Most lacquer is Deft of McFaddens, no matter what the can reads. Lacquer can be difficult if you do not have some experience with it and it is temperature and moisture sensitive. Many do not like poly, claiming the tone issue. My experience is that the finish does not matter as long as it is thin; a thick nitro coat will rob tone as surely as a thick poly coat. I would advise staying away from acrylic lacquers.

 

When you get into air guns, there is a cost greater than the tools; you have accellerants, retarders, different thinners (not just lacquer thinner), blush remover, fish eye remover, etc. With proper technique you can most, but not always, ignore the blush remover and the fish eye remover. The retarder, it depends.

 

When you go the air gun route, you have many more choices than the aerosols or wipe ons allow for. When you go the wipe on route, you have almost as many choices as the air gun route. The choices, of course, are colors and tints of colors, and specialty finishes.

 

My setup is:

135 Lbs./ 4.3 CU ft./ min. compressor - $140,

Detail Air Brush (similar to a Badger) - $29;

High Volume Air Brush - $15;

assorted air hoses and filters - $20;

assorted fittings - $30.

All From Harbor Freight.

[noize]

 

The cost of the gun doesn't bother me...it's the cost of the compressor, the regulators, the air dryers, etc. If I knew I were going to be finishing multiple guitars for years to come, okay, but if I'm only ever going to do 1-3, then I don't want all that stuff.

 

 

Two words on how to get the {censored} you need on the cheap: Big Lots

I bought a spray gun, and a small shop compressor for less than $100

[Elias Graves]

 

Many do not like poly, claiming the tone issue. My experience is that the finish does not matter as long as it is thin; a thick nitro coat will rob tone as surely as a thick poly coat. I would advise staying away from acrylic lacquers.

 

 

In my current refinish of my Epi SG, I have played the guitar with the standard, thick poly finish and now stripped to bare wood. There is zero change in the tone. None. Nada. The effect of the finish on the tone of an electric guitar is a myth. It has none.

 

EG