Guitar Set up HELP!!!

[KevinTJH]

Stew mac sells almost any guitar tool you could think of - however they are super expensive. I made a couple $200+ orders for tools and didn't get much at all - just some basics. Home depot sells some good stuff too - a nice 3-way measuring gauge comes in handy. My wife actually got me a star tip screwdriver with a set of different size tips - works perfect for strat saddles - Mia, mim, mij, etc. You always have one to fit. Get a string winder - a $2 one works fine and saves a lot of time. Some wire cutters and even needle nose pliers. Lemon oil, nevrdull, polish, steel wool, masking tape, screwdriver, straight edge, Allen wrenches, adjustable crescent wrench. That's what I start with for a typical guitar cleanup/setup. While you're setting everything up, don't forget about the pickup height. Set the amp to clean and adjust the pickup so it sounds right then adjust the other pickups so the volume between them is about the same. Once you get into fret work and nut slotting you start needing a bunch of expensive tools. If you only have 1 guitar best to have someone else do the work for fret leveling etc. If you have many or like to tinker then $4-500 will get you leveling and dressing tools and you can start making $99 squires play like USA strats - just takes lots of time and said tools.

 

Yes I agree with you. Stewmac's prices are just way beyond reasonable! I might just look around other online stores in Aussie for better deals.

 

My frets look alright still, so I don't think I'll be doing any work on them anytime soon. Thanks though.

[irishstu]

Actually, I have to disagree to a point here. SOME of Stewmacs tools are very expensive, others are very reasonable.

[smorgdonkey]

That said, Both Floyd and T.O.M. are set radius (yes... a Floyd Rose is set radius). You will not need a radius gauge for either

 

 

With Floyds it does depend on how detailed one wants to be with set up. Most Floyds are on a flat base plate but if you take the Floyd apart you'll see a metal shim under the '4 saddles between the E strings'. That is to make the strings follow a radius and the people who get more detailed will put another shim under the 2 center saddles (D and G) to more accurately follow a radius.

 

It's a fair amount of nit picky work especially if you don't mark your saddle locations so that you don't have to redo your intonation but to say that it is a set radius (even though the statement is true in a way) makes it seem like it cannot be altered-they can...it's just not easy like saddles with allen wrench adjusters.

[atrox]

With Floyds it does depend on how detailed one wants to be with set up. Most Floyds are on a flat base plate but if you take the Floyd apart you'll see a metal shim under the '4 saddles between the E strings'. That is to make the strings follow a radius and the people who get more detailed will put another shim under the 2 center saddles (D and G) to more accurately follow a radius. It's a fair amount of nit picky work especially if you don't mark your saddle locations so that you don't have to redo your intonation but to say that it is a set radius (even though the statement is true in a way) makes it seem like it cannot be altered-they can...it's just not easy like saddles with allen wrench adjusters.

I guess. It's semantics I suppose. I'm aware of the shimming... just seems like a half assed approach to fix a potential issue on different guitars. I had to set a Floyd up for a Strat with a 7.25" radius board. . You wanna talk shims That is not to say Floyds don't do their intended purpose well. They do.

OP... A set-up is truly a simple thing that many people over-think to the point of it becoming hard. Take things Erlewine says in his book with a grain of salt. If you sit and think about some of the things he says, you will realize the things he does can usually be done in a lot more efficient and inexpensive ways. Erlewine has a stake in StewMac and a lot of those specialized tools, are just not needed for anything. Once you learn the relationship between nut slot height/neck relief (a heated argument topic in itself) and saddle height, a setup becomes second nature and usually a 15 minute process you can do simply with your hands and your eye.

I do recommend getting a set of feeler gauges and radius gauges for starting out. That way you get a general idea of the way things should be for how you like teh guitar to play. Never rely on what numbers Fender or Gibson put out... unless those are the specs that you like. If I went by those numbers on the set-ups I do for clients, I'd lose a lot of business.

[poolshark]

Once you get into fret work and nut slotting you start needing a bunch of expensive tools. If you only have 1 guitar best to have someone else do the work for fret leveling etc. If you have many or like to tinker then $4-500 will get you leveling and dressing tools and you can start making $99 squires play like USA strats - just takes lots of time and said tools.

 

 

That might be true if you buy Stew-Mac all the way, but for leveling, the only Stew-Mac tools you would definitely need are a crown file, a fret-end file and MAYBE a radius block. Probably $50-70, depending on how many sizes of crown file you buy. The rest can be taken care of with a Sharpie, a $10 Menards level, some spray adhesive and varying grits of sandpaper. Add a regular ol' bastard file and a credit card if you want to do spot leveling.

 

Though I'm sure a pro like Atrox does far better work than I, I really don't think the tools are that expensive, nor the work that difficult. Though the service is phenomenal, for the most part, Stew-Mac tools are a racket.

[atrox]

That might be true if you buy Stew-Mac all the way, but for leveling, the only Stew-Mac tools you would definitely need are a crown file, a fret-end file and MAYBE a radius block. Probably $50-70, depending on how many sizes of crown file you buy. The rest can be taken care of with a Sharpie, a $10 Menards level, some spray adhesive and varying grits of sandpaper. Add a regular ol' bastard file and a credit card if you want to do spot leveling. Though I'm sure a pro like Atrox does far better work than I, I really don't think the tools are that expensive, nor the work that difficult. Though the service is phenomenal, for the most part, Stew-Mac tools are a racket.

My whole point is that it's not hard. I show my clients how to do setups all the time. They still come back to me for the harder things and maybe some tweaking, but I think a person should be able to make a guitar play like THEY want it too. There is no magic or Mojo involved.

Here is a link to an article I wrote a couple years ago. I recommend it as food for thought for anyone wanting to start doing their own guitar work

Stew Mac is an amazing company as far as customer service and availability of product. I have dealer accounts elsewhere, but I order from StewMac often and have never had a single issue. I can't say that for many other dealers I deal with. That said. they have a lot of useless and unneeded tools. Most of which have been "invented" by Dan Erlewine. The man is an incredible luthier, he just is not the "be all end all" and I disagree with a lot of his methods and beliefs.... obviously

[Pope on a Rope]

 

If you can, try to do it with the old strings. It's sometimes hard to save them, but it's better than wasting a set if you gotta go back and do something

 

 

If the strings have any playing time on them, I'd rather avoid potential difficulties and just install fresh ones for a set up. Especially when it comes to setting intonation. Getting a guitar properly intonated with old strings can be a bitch. When the strings are really worn you just end up doing the set up twice.

[KevinTJH]

 

If the strings have any playing time on them, I'd rather avoid potential difficulties and just install fresh ones for a set up. Especially when it comes to setting intonation. Getting a guitar properly intonated with old strings can be a bitch. When the strings are really worn you just end up doing the set up twice.

 

You're right, I think I should really install fresh ones first. The current strings look alright but were probably not installed properly. They go out of tune every time you bend them and even by leaving the guitar by itself. Don't blame the climate, I have 4 other guitars sitting on the same rack and they stay in tune all the time!

[atrox]

Wow man, you're like the nicest guitar tech around! I seriously wouldn't even mind paying you to let me sit down and watch you do someone else's guitar. Watching is always the best way to learn something IMO. My local guitar tech is a real ****. You can't even make bookings for his service. You just leave your guitar in the store and wait 2-3 weeks for the job to be done, adding to the fact that his service is really expensive too! You're right, I think I should really install fresh ones first. The current strings look alright but were probably not installed properly. They go out of tune every time you bend them and even by leaving the guitar by itself. Don't blame the climate, I have 4 other guitars sitting on the same rack and they stay in tune all the time!

 

haha. well, I moonlight as a luthier/tech. It's a real business for me, but I make my money as a motion graphics designer. I don't get the assholish mentality that many techs have. It's a power trip or something. I truly believe most people should learn to set up their guitars without my help. If they don't want to learn, then I'll certainly do it for them

 

As far as strings go, setting up, for me, is a multi stage process. i tend to think of it in 4 stages:

 

1. There is the initial evaluation. This is where you determine what a guitar needs to have done. I use the strings that are on it and adjust the neck relief and action to where it should be. i do not adjust intonation or nut slots at this point. I'm just looking for issues at this point

 

2. Fret level if needed. Strings off obviously. After the evaluation and initial adjustments, I can usually tell if I gotta do something here to get a guitar playing right. if it doesn't need a level, then skip to step 3. Most people would skip this step all together if you are not comfortable messing with frets. And that is fine.

 

3. Disassembly and cleaning. Strings comes off. Here I clean up everything and use electronics cleaner on all pots, switches and inputs. I tape off the fretboard and buff the frets to a mirror finish, clean the fretboard and sometimes take the body to a buffer if needed or desired by the client.

 

4. Final assembly and setup. I put new strings on, readjust the neck relief, saddle height, nut slots (if needed), trem position/angle and intonation.

 

 

I could write a book about how neck relief, saddle height and nut slots all relate to each other, but in the end, that is all for the person setting a guitar up to experience so they can find their own way of doing it that is comfortable to them. All I can say for an absolute is that each one of those things affects the other. Once you get all that figured out, setups become second nature and you'll always have awesome playing guitars.

[smorgdonkey]

I guess. It's semantics I suppose. I'm aware of the shimming... just seems like a half assed approach to fix a potential issue on different guitars. I had to set a Floyd up for a Strat with a 7.25" radius board. . You wanna talk shims That is not to say Floyds don't do their intended purpose well. They do.

I don't understand why they don't make the Floyd saddles height adjustable or make radiused base plates...it seems like either method would be easy enough.
At any rate, I was sure that you knew about the shimming and all of that just by reading your posts and such(I got the impression that you had a fair amount of knowledge & experience) - I just wanted to post it in case anyone read that and thought that they couldn't use a Floyd on a neck with radius without having string height issues.

[KevinTJH]

One LAST question, while I remove all the strings for the setup, would it be a good idea to just oil the fretboard with lemon oil or something like that? I've never done any of that on this guitar before.

 

I can't thank you enough, Atrox! You've answered my question so well that I can't find any more holes to be filled in. Wish you all the best in your business and motion graphics designing!

 

Thanks again.

[atrox]

One LAST question, while I remove all the strings for the setup, would it be a good idea to just oil the fretboard with lemon oil or something like that? I've never done any of that on this guitar before. I can't thank you enough, Atrox! You've answered my question so well that I can't find any more holes to be filled in. Wish you all the best in your business and motion graphics designing! Thanks again.

Not a problem at all.

Yeah. I'll usually do the lemon oil thing. Don't think of it as hydrating though. You are more cleaning it than anything else with lemon oil. It's a damn good cleaner for that purpose and it makes the wood look a bit nicer for a little while.

[alphamarquis]

Just thought I might want to add my 2cents here.

 

It helps alot to have a nice tuner. I use a TU-2 and it does the job just fine. At the guitar lab we use peterson strobes and they are the bees knees.

[KevinTJH]

Just thought I might want to add my 2cents here. It helps alot to have a nice tuner. I use a TU-2 and it does the job just fine. At the guitar lab we use peterson strobes and they are the bees knees.

 

It's got Grovers. I started a thread once about my tuners and everyone said Grovers were one of the best around. It's even better than the Klusons on Gibsons.