Intonation Problem?

[EzzO)))]

Hey guys, I rescued an old silvertone electric guitar from a garage sale last week. It didn't have any strings on it but the body was in really nice condition and for $10 I figured at the very least I'd have a guitar to monkey around with. Anyway I put new strings on it and everything seems to working smooth, it even stays in tune when I use the trem bar. The only thing thats appears to be wrong with it is that when I play open chords it sounds out of tune. I can tune all the strings and they stay in tune, when I play bar chords it sounds fine but for some reason open chords sound super wonky. I checked the intonation at the 12th fret and it is way out. Is there anyway to correct this? I've heard a number of things can be reponsible for bad intonation, is there anyway to determine whats causing this? The frets are pretty worn down on this guitar so I think that might have something to do with it.

[thick_mike]

I have a similar problem on a (probably fake?) Epiphone Joe Pass I picked up on ebay. Fretted note at 12th is sharp compared to harmonic, so I've adjusted the saddles all the way back (even reversed the GB&E saddles to get a bit more adjustment). It helped, but the open chords still sound a bit off.

 

I'm considering trying to move the TOM bridge or swap for a floating rosewood bridge, but I'm not not sure if it's possible.

[EzzO)))]

I thought about adjusting the saddles but I don't know much about which way sharpens and which flattens.

[poolshark]

^ This is the only way. Adjusting the saddle toward the neck sharpens the fretted note. Away from the neck flattens it.

[Pope on a Rope]

In case you ever forget what Poolshark told you, you can just move the saddle an exaggerated distance and check with your tuner to see which way it went.

[EzzO)))]

Awesome, thanks so much

If it turns out that no matter how far I move it's still way out does that mean the guitar is messed for good? would a new bridge be a possible solution?

[poolshark]

I wouldn't worry about it until the time comes. Good way to get an ulcer.

[Orange Jackson]

This is how I do it.

 

Setting Intonation:

Once the guitar is in tune,

Fret the note at the 12th fret and compare that to the harmonic at the 12 (over the actual steal/nickel fret).

They should read the same, if not, you get problems.

 

(All on the 12th fret and 12th harmonic)

If the fretted pitch is higher then the harmonic, the string needs to be made longer.

You do this by tuning the screw on the saddle at the bridge.

 

If the fretted pitch is lower then the harmonic, the string needs to be shortened/ move the saddle towards the neck.

[normh]

This what I recently did to a 60's Kingston for a customer and what you do with acoustic jazz guitars that have a floating bridge.

 

Measure from nut to middle of twelfth fret, the measure that much further down the neck. Set your high e saddle at that point. Move back the low E side about an 1/8th inch. Get tuner and fine tune those two strings. Your intonation will be pretty close on all the strings. On the Kingston I screwed the bridge down with the original screws. On a jazz box, if it has a floating bridge you don't screw or glue it down.

[WRGKMC]

Many of them had nut heights that were too high causing open chords to bend the strings sharp. It can also be theres too much relief, string height, intonation etc, You need to adjust all of those to tweak it in.

[EzzO)))]

status report: Well after checking the intonation I realized that it was comically out of whack, the whole guitar was pretty much a whole half step sharp. I took the bridge off, got a screwdriver and tightened the saddles as far as they could across the board, I was hoping this would make it too flat and then I could loosen them all up and tweak accordingly. After I did that and tuned it up the f*#!&ing thing was STILL sharp, although now only slightly. I can play open chords and it sounds a lot better, it still doesn't sound perfect but I can play it and not give myself and earache. While monkeying around with it I noticed that nut seems quite high, could this be a cause for the intense sharpness? Also, do I run the risk of messing things up by having the saddles tightened so extremely?

On another note, the fret wires on this thing are pretty rough, it makes kind of a scraping sound when I do string bends (that can't be good). I remember hearing that you can smooth them out with a brillo pad or a mild sand paper, is that true?

 

Thanks

[poolshark]

What style of guitar are we talking about? 70s Japan funk machine or recent China/Indonesian Strat copy?

[EzzO)))]

It's an early 70's silvertone. It has a strat-ish style body, a little more angular and a little smaller than strat. Made in Japan, it has very teisco vibe to it if that makes sense.

[Orange Jackson]

I sorry to say it but, a guitar that will not intonate/ is not intoned/ is not worth playing.

[EzzO)))]

Well I just grabbed for something to muck around with, its not my main ax or anything

[fretmonster]

 

status report: Well after checking the intonation I realized that it was comically out of whack, the whole guitar was pretty much a whole half step sharp. I took the bridge off, got a screwdriver and tightened the saddles as far as they could across the board, I was hoping this would make it too flat and then I could loosen them all up and tweak accordingly. After I did that and tuned it up the f*#!&ing thing was STILL sharp, although now only slightly. I can play open chords and it sounds a lot better, it still doesn't sound perfect but I can play it and not give myself and earache. While monkeying around with it I noticed that nut seems quite high, could this be a cause for the intense sharpness? Also, do I run the risk of messing things up by having the saddles tightened so extremely? On another note, the fret wires on this thing are pretty rough, it makes kind of a scraping sound when I do string bends (that can't be good). I remember hearing that you can smooth them out with a brillo pad or a mild sand paper, is that true? Thanks

 

 

The hight nut is a definite cause of sharpness as it effects your overall action. I'd be extremely surprised if that guitar didn't intonate with the proper set up. As far as your frets, don't use anything to smooth them other than the finest steel wool (000 if memory serves) available at Lowes and Home Depot.

[DaleH]