Members thunder100 Posted June 21, 2010 Members Share Posted June 21, 2010 As Axe-FX STD owner,since the 9.03 firmware,when the Fenders were updated I was a happy boy I cannot do an scientific test like PT but we made with a stubborn BF owner,with his amp a blind test(playing from next room/a bit cheated we used his speaker) and he choose 3 of 4 times the Axe to be his amp-->"I told you nothing can beat a real tube amp.His jaw hit the floor As beeing 52 I dont hear that well anymore but I could hardly hear any difference It is as Cliff (Fractal Audio) stated some time ago-->Digital has a bad image because of cheap products,not because of its technology Point though is,that without shortcuts(download other users presets from the forum/buy the Redwire IR's) you need lots of time to get somewhere In fact I sold 2 amps Roland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jrockbridge Posted June 21, 2010 Members Share Posted June 21, 2010 Very cool. I'd love to have an Axe-FX as the ultimate low volume and direct recording setup. I don't think I'd want to use one live though. All the live clips I've heard sound like it gets lost in a live band mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members _pete_ Posted June 21, 2010 Members Share Posted June 21, 2010 Just for giggles, here's a clip of a real Bogner Shiva on one side and an Axe FX Shiva on the other.Which is which? http://soundcloud.com/spetersonmusic/06-2010-shiva-test Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CoqBelliqueux Posted June 21, 2010 Members Share Posted June 21, 2010 Just for giggles, here's a clip of a real Bogner Shiva on one side and an Axe FX Shiva on the other. Which is which? http://soundcloud.com/spetersonmusic/06-2010-shiva-test The loud scratchy thing is the Bogner and the muddy inaudible out of time thing in the background is the Axe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members _pete_ Posted June 21, 2010 Members Share Posted June 21, 2010 The loud scratchy thing is the Bogner and the muddy inaudible out of time thing in the background is the Axe? Must you always be such a coq? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ashasha Posted June 21, 2010 Author Members Share Posted June 21, 2010 Just did a quick search on the Fractal forums and it looks like the price for the MFC-101 is projected to be in the $500-800 range depending on who is prognosticating. Based on what I know about it (which isn't a whole hell of a lot) I would guess that $700 is a good figure to count on. Definitely a lot further away from a modded FCB1010 than I originally thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CoqBelliqueux Posted June 21, 2010 Members Share Posted June 21, 2010 Must you always be such a coq? They would have to be at the same volume, played one after the other and dialed in similarly, c'mon now. I don't dislike the toanz, I'm just sayin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CoqBelliqueux Posted June 21, 2010 Members Share Posted June 21, 2010 Just did a quick search on the Fractal forums and it looks like the price for the MFC-101 is projected to be in the $500-800 range depending on who is prognosticating.Based on what I know about it (which isn't a whole hell of a lot) I would guess that $700 is a good figure to count on. Definitely a lot further away from a modded FCB1010 than I originally thought. It's still much less money than the Petrucci Rocktron monster. What's wrong with just a MIDI controller, especially if you have FX on/off capabilities on top of bank/patches switching? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ashasha Posted June 21, 2010 Author Members Share Posted June 21, 2010 It's still much less money than the Petrucci Rocktron monster. What's wrong with just a MIDI controller, especially if you have FX on/off capabilities on top of bank/patches switching? Well the FCB1010 is a bit of a pain to get into patches in banks B and C which just means you have to rearrange the presets you want to use into bank A. And the MFC-101 will show the tuner, patch name and probably IA status in the display where as you kind of take a leap of faith stepping on the FCB1010. Plus the mulicolor LED's would probably be nice because you can tell if you have an effect in that preset. Right now I can tell if an effect is engaged or not, but I don't know what's in there for sure unless I look in the layout menu of the Axe-FX. And of course it's got 17 buttons which naturally means that it's better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members maltomario Posted June 21, 2010 Members Share Posted June 21, 2010 ashasha, that $700-800 figure incorrect. the more accurate pricing on the footcontroller is to be $399. I heard this from somewhere, from a guy who is apparently near top of waiting list. I think if they actually sold them for $700-800, people woudl find that ridiculously, prohibitively expensive. at $400 list its more reasonable (especially considering its featureset) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ashasha Posted June 21, 2010 Author Members Share Posted June 21, 2010 Well if that's the case I may be back in the game for one. Not really a huge need to be honest, but it'd be nice. Perhaps after the initial rush dies down. The way that things have gone with that pedal it's probably a good thing I am not foaming at the mouth for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CoqBelliqueux Posted June 21, 2010 Members Share Posted June 21, 2010 Not really a huge need to be honest :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jrockbridge Posted June 21, 2010 Members Share Posted June 21, 2010 ...I don't think I'd want to use one live though. All the live clips I've heard sound like it gets lost in a live band mix. I finally found a live band recording using the Axe-FX that sounds good and does not get buried in the mix. But, he's got his Axe-FX fed into the mixing board and I think this is a recording right from the board. [YOUTUBE]STTOP_-wqgE[/YOUTUBE] Can anybody show me a live band, video camera clip (or NON-board recording) using an Axe-FX where it doesn't get buried in the band mix? I keep looking for one, but I can't find a single example. I can't understand what causes the sound to get lost in a live mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheIgnoramus Posted June 21, 2010 Members Share Posted June 21, 2010 Just for giggles, here's a clip of a real Bogner Shiva on one side and an Axe FX Shiva on the other.Which is which?http://soundcloud.com/spetersonmusic/06-2010-shiva-test The Axe is on the right. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members _pete_ Posted June 21, 2010 Members Share Posted June 21, 2010 The Axe is on the right. Right? No idea. The guy who did the clip has not revealed the answer yet.The guesses are split 50/50 over on TGP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ashasha Posted June 21, 2010 Author Members Share Posted June 21, 2010 Can anybody show me a live band, video camera clip (or NON-board recording) using an Axe-FX where it doesn't get buried in the band mix? I keep looking for one, but I can't find a single example. I can't understand what causes the sound to get lost in a live mix. [YOUTUBE]Yk_W48XdyWE[/YOUTUBE] [YOUTUBE]24Z_IOWkepk[/YOUTUBE] Just a note, this is Mark Day playing and I've used some of his presets before; they are extremely bass heavy so I imagine that if the patches were set up a bit differently they'd cut through even more. Not sure if he has them dialed in like that to move air or because that's what he likes, but they are even too heavy for me to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members maltomario Posted June 21, 2010 Members Share Posted June 21, 2010 you gotta remember, us lowly guitarists are often at the mercy of sound guys and their "tastes" in mixing. my sound guy always has me lower in mix than I'd like. Plus, add in the effects of camera location (and {censored}ty camera mics) and you get wildly varying amounts of getting lost in the mix. not fair to blame it on axefx. its more of an EQ /levels thing than a fault on the axefx. for example, here's same show, two different camera angles [YOUTUBE]FM8llJOv4sI[/YOUTUBE][YOUTUBE]o_Ws54pY3XE[/YOUTUBE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jrockbridge Posted June 21, 2010 Members Share Posted June 21, 2010 ...Just a note, this is Mark Day playing and I've used some of his presets before; they are extremely bass heavy so I imagine that if the patches were set up a bit differently they'd cut through even more. Not sure if he has them dialed in like that to move air or because that's what he likes, but they are even too heavy for me to use. Those clips sound pretty good to me. Is that Atomic cab a tube amplified speaker cabinet? Regardless, that's the first live setup I've heard where the Axe-FX didn't sound lost in the live band mix. I think you need a specialized setup like the Atomic Reactors to make that thing sound right live. If I was using that live, I'd have to have Atomic Reactors, or a tube amp setup like Ty Tabor and just use the Axe as an FX unit. It's a remarkable piece of technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 9-Pin-Phoenix Posted June 22, 2010 Members Share Posted June 22, 2010 As an Axe owner, I definitely have to agree with Mario. As I have used the Axe longer I have come to realize that many of the negatives I attributed to a particular amp rig I had were not a fault of the rig, but of my use. I would often dial with my eyes rather than my ears. With the Axe, I am using models of amps that I might not have any experience with. Since I don't know where the knobs "should" be, I just dial until I think it sounds right. If you look on some of my patches, my bass is really low (btw 1 and 2). I don't know if I would have run any tube amp that way. I also think it is also a problem that many sound-men are also not used to dealing with gear that runs direct to the board. I haven't run into this as we run our own sound from the stage, but I have heard many stories of confused people when handed the mic cable from the Axe. I love running my Axe direct! It really spreads the sound around the room and I don't have to worry about the directivity of an amp cab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members golias Posted June 22, 2010 Members Share Posted June 22, 2010 I also think it is also a problem that many sound-men are also not used to dealing with gear that runs direct to the board. I haven't run into this as we run our own sound from the stage, but I have heard many stories of confused people when handed the mic cable from the Axe. This is 90% of why I still lug an amp around. (The other 10% being that I still like how my amp sounds & feels better than any modeler I've tried... although the Axe-FX is one I may take a closer look at one of these days.) Truth be told, for a simple bar gig I'd probably be content to run a Liquid Blues pedal to a DI box and have that be my entire rig, except most sound guys are baffled at the sight of such a thing and NEVER seem to set up monitoring for me very well, let alone put out a good sound through the mains. Every half-decent sound guy in the world knows how to point an SM57 at an amp speaker, and what to do with that signal at the master board... and I can hear myself just fine through my own rig, since I'm standing right next to it, so I'm not at his mercy when it comes to being able to hear myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jonPhillips Posted June 22, 2010 Members Share Posted June 22, 2010 I split the output from my Axe, using an Effects send block. This is positioned before the cabinet block and feeds into a SLA power amp and then into a 4x12 (usually a Marshall 1960A). This stands behind me for on-stage monitoring and the signal to this is fairly dry. The main output after the cabinet sim usually has a little reverb and is output via 2 XLR cables to the desk. Through our 5k rig, it sounds absolutely {censored}ing massive and has never once been lost in the mix - or anywhere near it. For live use, it's a great way to run your sound... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thunder100 Posted June 22, 2010 Members Share Posted June 22, 2010 Those clips sound pretty good to me. Is that Atomic cab a tube amplified speaker cabinet? Regardless, that's the first live setup I've heard where the Axe-FX didn't sound lost in the live band mix. I think you need a specialized setup like the Atomic Reactors to make that thing sound right live. If I was using that live, I'd have to have Atomic Reactors, or a tube amp setup like Ty Tabor and just use the Axe as an FX unit. It's a remarkable piece of technology. Its not a band but apart a real sample what made me looking into AXE/after many suggestions here) [YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE] There is also part 2-4 Roland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gitmo Posted June 22, 2010 Members Share Posted June 22, 2010 The loud scratchy thing is the Bogner and the muddy inaudible out of time thing in the background is the Axe? I hope the left side is the Axe because I'd like to buy one but I wasn't impressed with any part of the clip either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jrockbridge Posted June 22, 2010 Members Share Posted June 22, 2010 Its not a band but apart a real sample what made me looking into AXE/after many suggestions here)There is also part 2-4Roland I know the Axe-FX sounds great for direct recording. It also sounds great recorded straight from the board at a live show...which is also a direct recording, by the way. I'm asking about a live recording in a band mix. By live recording, I mean something that would be somewhat representative of how it would sit in the mix at a live show. Usually, that means a camcorder that was held by somebody in the audience. But, other recording devices would work as well. The reason I'm asking for a live recording in a band mix is that I've heard quite a few of them with the AFX. In most of the live band recordings I've heard of the AFX, it sounds lost in the mix. It seems really buried. While that can happen with any equipment, I've noticed it's repeatedly with the AFX. So, either people are using their AFX with the wrong monitors, mixing it badly, or there's a specific challenge related to modeling gear used live that I must have missed before. The recordings of Mark Day at a live show sounds the way I'd expect a good tube or SS amp to sound in the mix. I can hear him just fine and he doesn't sound buried. He's using Atomic Reactor gear which is designed with wider frequency response and specifically made for bringing out the sound of a modeling. Whatever Atomic is doing with their gear, I suspect there's a lot of frequency response missing in a lot of other gear being used with the AFX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ashasha Posted June 22, 2010 Author Members Share Posted June 22, 2010 Well another problem is that to be perfectly honest a lot people are trying to use the Axe-FX with cabinet modeling going into a guitar amp which isn't a good idea to begin with or not using the cabinet modeling going into a PA type deal. Than you get guys that aren't using FRFR (full range flat response) speakers which doesn't help. And lastly a lot of these guys would dial in a killer tone based on what it sounds like by itself and try to use that in a band setting without adjusting it. Not saying that is the case with everyone, but we all know that guitarists aren't always the quickest in terms of technology and setting up their gear optimally. Tell a guy that he shouldn't be using his favorite $2000 tube amp with what is basically an effects box to them sounds silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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