how do you make pentatonics fit

[Mark Wein]

you explain things awesomely! more people need to talk about using your ears

 

 

Thanks!

 

Sometimes we forget to pay attention to what it is our fingers are actually doing...

[soundcreation]

not to highjack, this is semi related, but can someone help me out here? i know my pentatonic scale very well, and how the major fits within it but i can't RAGE a solo. I am decent with my melodies and phrasing, but I'm unsure of how to just light myself on fire and go for it. I'm talking techniques like, "play in one area then jump up an octave" for example. ( i know that wasn't a good example but you get the point )

 

You know first position very well or you know all five positions very well? I'm guessing it's the former.

 

If so, you've really got to learn all the rest of your "boxes"...ie these

 

 

they fit together end to end...so in the above diagram..you know the first one right...box 2 is to the right there, box 3 last one on the top, box 4 bottom left and box 5 bottom right.

 

The red is obviously the root so as you probably know if you put box one red dot on the fifth fret then that's an A minor pentatonic scale. Box two starts on the A note on the fourth string 7th fret. And so on.

 

The trick is to first memorize all the boxes and practice soloing in each of them. Then slowly link the boxes together one at a time practicing soloing between them. Don't bite off more than you can chew at one time. Work each box in only after your comfortable linking the previous. Eventually you'll be able to run up and down and back and forth with no trouble in a given key.

 

And do yourself a favor if you haven't already. Memorize the notes on the neck. I still haven't and it's a pain in the ass. I'm in "shape" mode, and that's good in some ways but to do what you said...jump from one spot to another you need to not only know the shape, but the shape you should be in when you jump from the A on the fifth fret 6th string to the A on the 10th fret 2nd string for example.

 

And further to that, I'm brutal at changing keys at random because I know shapes and not note locations, aside from the 6th string. So learning the notes along with the shapes is important.

 

Hope I didn't tell you everything you already know...lol

[mosiddiqi]

Pentatonics are so powerful, you can pretty much play them over any chord type..a lot of John McLaughlins blazing stuff with Mahavishnu was just pentatonics, though it sounded a lot more exotic due to the context!

 

Marks vids are a really good place to start..but be warned, once you start looking into how you can use pentatonics in a non blues context..it's a long road.

 

I guess a lot of people know about moving the minor pentatonic "down three frets" to get the Major..another quick and easy shortcut when playing over Major 7 type chords is to move your minor pentatonic one fret down (half step)..so If you're soloing over EMaj7..play Ebmin pentatonic..you get a really cool "lydian" flavour due to the Bb note in Ebmin pent.

 

There are loads of substitution ideas like these. Perfect for rock guys like me who like the box shape.

[Mark Wein]

You know first position very well or you know all five positions very well? I'm guessing it's the former. If so, you've really got to learn all the rest of your "boxes"...ie these they fit together end to end...so in the above diagram..you know the first one right...box 2 is to the right there, box 3 last one on the top, box 4 bottom left and box 5 bottom right. The red is obviously the root so as you probably know if you put box one red dot on the fifth fret then that's an A minor pentatonic scale. Box two starts on the A note on the fourth string 7th fret. And so on. The trick is to first memorize all the boxes and practice soloing in each of them. Then slowly link the boxes together one at a time practicing soloing between them. Don't bite off more than you can chew at one time. Work each box in only after your comfortable linking the previous. Eventually you'll be able to run up and down and back and forth with no trouble in a given key. And do yourself a favor if you haven't already. Memorize the notes on the neck. I still haven't and it's a pain in the ass. I'm in "shape" mode, and that's good in some ways but to do what you said...jump from one spot to another you need to not only know the shape, but the shape you should be in when you jump from the A on the fifth fret 6th string to the A on the 10th fret 2nd string for example. And further to that, I'm brutal at changing keys at random because I know shapes and not note locations, aside from the 6th string. So learning the notes along with the shapes is important. Hope I didn't tell you everything you already know...lol

 

There are some really good points here. Learning the notes and root patterns on the fretboard are REALLY important. This is a great resource for learning your theory as it fits on the guitars neck:

 

 

Once you learn the "box patterns" there are a few things you can do to expand your horizons:

 

Try learning the scales in a linear fashion - all on one string:

 

[YOUTUBE]0kWc8pjFHDo[/YOUTUBE]

 

Learn to play musical phrases and not scale patterns:

 

[YOUTUBE]9mn-5ratlhc[/YOUTUBE]

 

There is also a more "expanded" home position

 

[YOUTUBE]WLdyqEK9aW0[/YOUTUBE]

[Yer Blues]

 

not to highjack, this is semi related, but can someone help me out here? i know my pentatonic scale very well, and how the major fits within it but i can't RAGE a solo. I am decent with my melodies and phrasing, but I'm unsure of how to just light myself on fire and go for it. I'm talking techniques like, "play in one area then jump up an octave" for example. ( i know that wasn't a good example but you get the point )

 

 

Study the solos of guitarist you admire and see how they do it. Pay attention to the entire solo and how the guitarist builds and releases tension.

[soundcreation]

There are some really good points here. Learning the notes and root patterns on the fretboard are REALLY important. This is a great resource for learning your theory as it fits on the guitars neck:

 

Thanks mark I appreciate the complement. It means a lot coming from some one like you. Your videos have been very helpful for me and I have a lot of respect for your playing and teaching.

 

As someone who is self taught within the last 5 years...using basically the internet and some books...I sometimes feel a little unsure about offering opinions on this kind of thing. But I also know what seems to have worked for me. And really getting those shapes down and linking them is not that hard. Now whether I do a good job with my phrasing is another thing...but the actual mechanics of the shapes is really helpful.

 

After I got those down I worked on the 5 positions of the natural minor scale. Once you have those 10 "blocks" you basically then have Major/minor and major/minor pentatonic in your arsenal.

 

Now I just have to figure out how to apply modes..yikes.

 

and memorize the damn notes...

[Mark Wein]

Thanks mark I appreciate the complement. It means a lot coming from some one like you. Your videos have been very helpful for me and I have a lot of respect for your playing and teaching. As someone who is self taught within the last 5 years...using basically the internet and some books...I sometimes feel a little unsure about offering opinions on this kind of thing. But I also know what seems to have worked for me. And really getting those shapes down and linking them is not that hard. Now whether I do a good job with my phrasing is another thing...but the actual mechanics of the shapes is really helpful. After I got those down I worked on the 5 positions of the natural minor scale. Once you have those 10 "blocks" you basically then have Major/minor and major/minor pentatonic in your arsenal. Now I just have to figure out how to apply modes..yikes. and memorize the damn notes...

 

 

No problem...you said many of the things that I'm always beating to death

 

One thing to remember is that modes are great to learn, but not super useful unless you are improvising over a "static" or unchanging chord. If you regularly play over funtional harmony (lots of chords that define a key center) then you are better off really learning your major and minor scales in depth and working on creating great melodies with your solo lines.

 

A last video on that subject:

 

[YOUTUBE]OWF2i_i3oRE[/YOUTUBE]

[soundcreation]

 

 

 

Cool..thanks very much for that one! Yeah I don't get to concerned about the modes just yet and I think what you said kind of made a bit of intuitive sense to me. Most of the stuff I solo over is youtube backing tracks where I'm working on pentatonic or major/minor stuff. That keeps me well busy.

 

Hell I still haven't really learned my blues scales yet and that would probably be more of a priority.

[Mark Wein]

 

Cool..thanks very much for that one! Yeah I don't get to concerned about the modes just yet and I think what you said kind of made a bit of intuitive sense to me. Most of the stuff I solo over is youtube backing tracks where I'm working on pentatonic or major/minor stuff. That keeps me well busy. Hell I still haven't really learned my blues scales yet and that would probably be more of a priority.

 

 

 

I would get that stuff down first. In reality I think the best way to do these things is to learn your major and minor scales really well, and then learn the two notes for each one that you remove to make your pentatonic scales. Suddenly you are thinking more "melody" and less "lick" with your soloing and there are fewer situations that you won't be able to figure out how to play over.

 

The problem is that guitar players learn their pentatonics first because we play a lot of pentatonic-based music and it is what the guitar community at large tells us to learn. Any other instrument would be starting with Major and Minor scales and learning their note names....do I play a ton of pentatonic based ideas when I solo? Of course....did I start making more musical sense once I learned my diatonic scales? Yes. You just have to learn how to apply the information in a way that makes sense for what you are playing over.

[Alexbiscuit]

yeah thanks soundcreation! i know all my shapes and how they lay across the fretboard and link together

 

i need to work on memorize note names though, i've really just got the 6th and 5th strings down (1st too obviously) and extrapolate over two frets for the 4th.

 

should study the G and B strings.

 

my ears are really grooving with hearing intervals these days, though. i can sing notes and play at the same time, or crawl up and down the fretboard without looking just playing intervals that sound right. but there's still a long road ahead.

 

i foresee myself spending many hours on your site mark

[Mark Wein]

i foresee myself spending many hours on your site mark

 

 

Feel free to ask questions if you get stuck!

[DavidMgT]

I go by the key the progression is in.

 

I find that focusing on notes & key signatures has worked best for me rather than memorizing patterns and scales. I like to see where things fit, so knowing the notes in each key and playing them throughout the fretboard has worked very well for me. My favorite way to practice is to pick a key and experiment with chords, arpeggios and multi-string patterns in that key.

 

I recognize that 'feel' is important, however I like to know what I am playing:)

[Alexbiscuit]

that's the goal right David, to marry the two?

 

I am surprised to begin knowing what it's like to 'feel' it, i definitely need to work on the analytical aspect of it still.

 

i really just want to know how to PEAK A SOLO. i can play fast with good accuracy and run up and down a scale but what gives it that oh oh OH YEAH *shred* liftage exactly? I know a lot of it is ascending to higher notes but there has to be more to it.

[Mark Wein]

 

that's the goal right David, to marry the two? I am surprised to begin knowing what it's like to 'feel' it, i definitely need to work on the analytical aspect of it still. i really just want to know how to PEAK A SOLO. i can play fast with good accuracy and run up and down a scale but what gives it that oh oh OH YEAH *shred* liftage exactly? I know a lot of it is ascending to higher notes but there has to be more to it.

 

 

 

treat a solo like a conversation...."ask a question" and then answer it with the next phrase...don't be afraid to leave some spaces. You solo needs to go somewhere but the interest in the solo can be from moving to another octave, note density, repeating an idea to create tension, playing your phrases with more excitement and intensity....lots of ways to skin a cat.

 

Try learning a few solos that you think are really good and see how that guy develops his solo.

[DavidMgT]

 

that's the goal right David, to marry the two? I am surprised to begin knowing what it's like to 'feel' it, i definitely need to work on the analytical aspect of it still. i really just want to know how to PEAK A SOLO. i can play fast with good accuracy and run up and down a scale but what gives it that oh oh OH YEAH *shred* liftage exactly? I know a lot of it is ascending to higher notes but there has to be more to it.

 

 

I think that one gets a certain freedom and fluidity from knowing the fretboard really well. The more you know, the better you can make your playing what you want it to be. I think it is something one can constantly strive for. It is astounding how much one can learn about the guitar. It can be really humbling.

[Alexbiscuit]

agreed, both of you. learning all of what guitar can offer is pretty much the best drug out there, and i'm not ashamed of wanting as much of it as i can get

 

mark- that was a great tip in your video, asking a question and answering it, treating your solos like speech almost.

 

i can phrase and create interesting melodic lines, but i'm unsure of how to get the uplifting peak, short of creating a bunch of tension below the root and then exploding on to the root at, say, a few octaves up.

 

i'll have to follow your original advice and learn a solo i love. i'm just trying to understand the fundamentals you know?

 

I've not hidden the fact that I'm obsessed with Phish, and Trey is just a master of tension and release. I'd love to tap into the technique and use it for my own playing.