Where are the MySpace superstars?

[soundwave106]

 

Sean Kingston? Tay Zonday, but that was youtube...close to the same thing tho

 

 

In looking up his bio, it seems that Sean Kingston = Epic Records and entered the industry via the Miami scene. To me Tay Zonday is more an example of an "OMGWTF!" type of viral video. These days you can become briefly famous on the Internet, and elsewhere, for producing something that is *uniquely* bad or weird. I don't think it's possible to sustain a big career on this. Though it says something about today's pop culture when William Hung can get three albums out of his novelty awfulness.

[Lee Flier]

 

I think that for most folks who don't like myspace, it's less about myspace itself and more about some of it's proponents and their tendency to overestimate myspace's capabilities. The OPs question was where are all the people who have "made it" ( by that, I assume he means parlaying their music into a comfortable living) solely on the basis of myspace alone, without the aid of a label. There just don't seem to be any, or if they are, they are as rare as white buffalo.

 

 

Well he did specify "superstars," and those are as rare as white buffalo by ANY means. It's just that there didn't used to be quite so many other bands who didn't "make it," and one didn't SEE them all as they do now on MySpace.

 

I think the whole premise of the original question is flawed for several reasons:

 

1) the whole "superstar" thing is pretty much a dying breed anyway. As you pointed out elsewhere, the biz is so fragmented and niche-specialized that the "superstar" has largely been replaced with lots of bands who aren't selling millions of CD's but some still nonetheless are making a living.

 

2) MySpace doesn't exist in a vacuum, and no artist has ever "made it" in a vacuum. So saying "so-and-so doesn't count because they had label support" or whatever doesn't really mean anything. If an artist becomes modestly successful (either via MySpace or slogging it out in local and regional venues or whatever way they've done it), other people are going to take notice - labels, promoters, radio stations, booking agencies, etc. And most bands are going to take advantage of additional revenue streams or means of promotion that are offered to them. So to say that MySpace is irrelevant because few people have made it "solely" from MySpace is kind of pointless. Any band trying to "make it" is not going to rely on ANY one source of promotion to the exclusion of everything else. So nobody is ever going to make it "solely" from MySpace, but that doesn't mean MySpace hasn't played a large role in their success.

 

Maybe this is news to the fledgling band who thinks they can just put their songs up on MySpace and everyone will flock to them and make them superstars. But I don't think too many people actually think that.

 

3) "Myspace" isn't the only game in town and they aren't responsible for the way things are in the biz. The home recording revolution and the MP3 revolution, in general, are what has made the music biz what it is today and it's kind of silly to pin it all on MySpace.

 

A few more comments in response to other posts...

[Lee Flier]

 

OK, follow me... The argument was that the labels *control* the means of getting onto the radio. They do not. Anyone can get onto the radio, they have to create a hit that the radio would want to play. .... In the 50s, yeh I have. But if you are going to claim that payola is what controls gets onto the radio these days, you will have to provide some proof of it. You can't just wave it around as an explanation.

 

 

Payola still does control everything on major radio. It's just not the labels directly paying the stations anymore because that was deemed illegal. Now they do it through a "middleman" known as "the independent promoter." These are companies that basically tell the stations what to play and get paid by the labels to do it. Yes, it ought to be illegal as well, and I believe there's a lawsuit pending against some of them actually. But that's how it works as of late.

 

You don't HAVE to be a major label to roll with the promoters, but you have to have major cash, which is something that generally only major labels have. So they do have de facto control over what gets played on commercial radio. DJ's and program directors at most stations do NOT make the decisions anymore as to what gets played.

 

As to how Sub Pop "made it," they were the last label of their kind to do so, because this business model didn't exist at that time. I think it was 1996 that the FCC relaxed the restrictions on how many radio stations could be owned by a single company, and that opened the floodgates for Clear Channel, Infinity etc. and their relationships with "independent promoters" who are really nothing more than money launderers.

 

Luckily this business model is not proving to be very lucrative and isn't likely to last for too much longer. And good riddance. Radio stations really need to get back to being local and regional, and DJ's and program directors need to be able to make more decisions again.

[BlueStrat]

Maybe this is news to the fledgling band who thinks they can just put their songs up on MySpace and everyone will flock to them and make them superstars. But I don't think too many people actually think that.

 

Actually, I think there are LOTS of young guys who think that. I have to laugh at the number of young guys with zero experience who have it all figured out and want to argue about how simple it is. "If you just do this and this, you get this. After all, (insert name of obscure band known to only a handful of hipsters) did it! They're now playing to half -empty clubs across the country!" Plus, a huge amount of stuff that gets put up is pure {censored}, and they don't even see it. In their minds, they actually have a chance of getting somewhere.

 

Of course, when I was young, I was just as naive and convinced of the simplicity of the business as any of them. All you had to do is get really good, write some good songs, work your way up through the clubs and get noticed by a label, right? What could be hard about that?

:blah:

[Lee Flier]

 

It's just that, despite the hype about the internet, it doesn't seem capable of doing that, because it's a passive medium that cannot be used to push artists. It can only put them out there for people to come to.

 

 

Now this much, I agree with. Labels traditionally (in concert with radio and tour promoters) have provided two things for artists which cost a lot of money: 1) distribution, and 2) promotion.

 

The home recording revolution, MP3's and the Internet have made the "distribution" part largely irrelevant. Labels can't have a monopoly on content and distribution anymore, anyone can record and release their music. So half of a label's function (and most of their source of revenue) has been thrown out the window, and that's the truth.

 

However, the other half - promotion - is where we still have a vacuum. Because while anyone can put out recordings and get them "out into the world" for people to hear, people still have to know they exist, and there has to be a reason for them to want to hear YOUR band over the many thousands that are out there, and that has to translate into enough $$ to make a living somehow.

 

Labels and radio used to act as "filters" - they'd pick a few artists whom they felt were deserving for whatever reason, and that meant having to exclude a lot of others. But the few they pick aren't just "out there in the world" - they're getting shoved in everyone's face constantly, on the radio, on MTV, in shopping malls, in ads, major magazines, etc. A huge hype was created about these few bands, and a huge amount of money was required to do it. And unfortunately, still is, if one really wants to generate the kinds of numbers necessary to quit your day job.

 

Labels are really not the only show in town, though. Increasingly, we are seeing other kinds of people investing in music and promoting it. Independent producers and promoters, corporate sponsors like Starbuck's, and video game companies to name a few. They have a different business model than a label - they are not depending on physical CD sales for their revenue so they can invest money in a band without breaking the bank, and it's a win-win for the company and the band.

 

Internet marketing can work too, but not just pages like MySpace which require active searching on the part of the users. I'm talking traditional advertising - you're on your bank's web site and you see a band on there. And of course ads like that cost money - maybe not as much as print ads, but more than your average garage band has. So again... somebody's got to be convinced that your band is worth investing some cash. They may well become convinced via MySpace, but in very few cases is MySpace going to be the whole story, nor should anyone consider it a failure or irrelevent if they aren't the whole story.

[Lee Flier]

 

Actually, I think there are LOTS of young guys who think that.

 

 

Maybe so, but I guess I'm just speaking to the OP's question: anybody who's asking "where are all the MySpace superstars?" is just as naive as the people who think MySpace actually WILL make them superstars without any other support. And the comment about "exploiting the fear and ego of the artist" is particularly silly. MySpace is what it is - it's providing a free web page, server space and means of promoting yourself to like minded fans. And that is all it claims to be, they can't do your legwork for you.

[keithtoxic]

Actually, I think there are LOTS of young guys who think that. I have to laugh at the number of young guys with zero experience who have it all figured out and want to argue about how simple it is. "If you just do this and this, you get this. After all, (insert name of obscure band known to only a handful of hipsters) did it! They're now playing to half -empty clubs across the country!" Plus, a huge amount of stuff that gets put up is pure {censored}, and they don't even see it. In their minds, they actually have a chance of getting somewhere. Of course, when I was young, I was just as naive and convinced of the simplicity of the business as any of them. All you had to do is get really good, write some good songs, work your way up through the clubs and get noticed by a label, right? What could be hard about that? :blah:

 

I take it this was aimed at me, since I was listing off a bunch of the bands and all that stuff(if not, ignore this, it relies solely on the fact that I think you're talking about me)

 

The bands I listed only play sold out shows.

 

The Devil Wears Prada shows sell out weeks before the night of the show. And now all the tours they're going on are with huge names like silverstein, a day to remember, maylene and the sons of disaster, and white chapel.

 

I've realized everytime I mention bands someone in here apparently thinks its witty to say something like playing to empty shows, but always seems to ignore the fact that I say in my posts "Plays to a sold out show"

[Dean Roddey]

 

But who knows how many people, man or woman, she screwed behind the scenes to get that stuff. Either way, she is a true myspace superstar.

 

 

Well, she skipped me, which doesn't seem right.

[Dean Roddey]

 

Luckily this business model is not proving to be very lucrative and isn't likely to last for too much longer. And good riddance. Radio stations really need to get back to being local and regional, and DJ's and program directors need to be able to make more decisions again.

 

 

I agree with that.

[mickeydean]

 

Well, she skipped me, which doesn't seem right.

 

 

maybe she didn't need a home stereo.

 

snark.

[BlueStrat]

 

I take it this was aimed at me, since I was listing off a bunch of the bands and all that stuff(if not, ignore this, it relies solely on the fact that I think you're talking about me) The bands I listed only play sold out shows. The Devil Wears Prada shows sell out weeks before the night of the show. And now all the tours they're going on are with huge names like silverstein, a day to remember, maylene and the sons of disaster, and white chapel. I've realized everytime I mention bands someone in here apparently thinks its witty to say something like playing to empty shows, but always seems to ignore the fact that I say in my posts "Plays to a sold out show"

 

 

Actually, I wasn't referring to you. Though I will admit that the term "sold out show" is a loaded term that can have a lot of different connotations. Sold out, as in a bar that seats 100? Or a theater that seats 400? An arena that seats 15K?

 

And this:

 

 

huge names like silverstein, a day to remember, maylene and the sons of disaster, and white chapel.

 

 

You just made my point. Huge Names? Outside of the hipster scene, I'll bet not 1 person in 10 between the ages of 20 and 40 know who any of these people are. Maybe DWP.

 

Elton John is a huge name. Springsteen is a huge name. A Day To Remember? Not so much.

 

But that's to be expected. All music is pretty much specialty stuff these days marketed to narrowly defined niches. I think the days of the mass appeal band is pretty much over. As I said before, it's now entirely possible for bands to make a living on just a following, rather than on mass appeal. But just because a band may be popular in a particular genre doesn't mean they're 'huge names'.

 

In blues, guys like Tommy Castro, Lucky Peterson, Kid Ramos, Little Charlie Beatty, Hubert Sumlin, Tab Benoit, etc etc are 'huge names', but they remain unknown to most of the population.

 

 

BTW, the same is true in television. When there were three networks, everyone knew who all the TV stars were. Now, with cable, there are all kinds of 'celebrities' and 'stars' running around that few people have ever heard of. It's just the nature of an expanding media. It means that there will be more people on camera (or on records, for that matter) to feed the growing media, but fewer people will be exposed to each one.

[ihateyouguys]

It looks like the term "superstar" really has to be defined down for there to be any myspace superstars.

[keithtoxic]

 

Actually, I wasn't referring to you. Though I will admit that the term "sold out show" can have a lot of different connotations. Sold out, as in a bar that setas 100? Or a theater that seats 400? An arena that seats 5K? And this: You just made my point. Huge Names? Outside of the hipster scene, I'll bet not 1 person in 10 between the ages of 20 and 40 know who any of these people are. But that's to be expected. All music is pretty much specialty stuff these days marketed to narrowly defined niches. I think the days of the mass appeal band is pretty much over. As I said before, it's now entirely possible for bands to make a living on just a following, rather than on mass appeal. But just because a band may be popular in a particular genre doesn't mean they're 'huge names'. In blues, guys like Tommy Castro, Lucky Peterson, Kid Ramos, Little Charlie Beatty, Hubert Sumlin, Tab Benoit, etc etc are 'huge names', but they remain unknown to most of the population.

 

 

Granted the others I listed are niche names, silverstein is a pretty big name.

 

I looked up the last show I was at with The Devil Wears Prada, and that show sold out 3 weeks before the day of, and it has a maximum capacity of 2000. Thats quite alot of people.

 

And white chapel is big in the death metal scene, not hipsters :] But I do understand where you're coming from.

[BlueStrat]

But I do understand where you're coming from.

 

 

I think overall your assesments are pretty good.

[sabriel9v]

What about Jeffree Star? He doesn't have a record label but his crappy music and name/face is everywhere. They sell his shirts at hot topic, his stickam has a million people in it all the time, he has a huge fan base, and he appears in tons of artists stuff(he was in the music video for some aiden song, and he guest vocals on some hollywood undead) Theres quite a few "true myspace superstars"

 

Jeffree Star? Who the hell is Jeffree Star

[thedolaon]

www.myspace.com/jeffreestar

 

he's also in that electro niche group which is growing but getting more widespread in terms of the target market, but may replace post-punk on radio in terms of music trends. In the 'hipster' scene, he is huge!! there are so many guys that try to imitate him it's sickening.

 

That reminds me a statement said above, when 'few' bands do good in something people try to imitate it and fail. Which is why most good bands usually start when they're: bored, just want to have fun, and not the mentality of :dude, let's do this b/c (band name niche genre here) and (band name niche genre 2 here) got big.

[sabriel9v]

www.myspace.com/jeffreestar he's also in that electro niche group which is growing but getting more widespread in terms of the target market, but may replace post-punk on radio in terms of music trends. In the 'hipster' scene, he is huge!! there are so many guys that try to imitate him it's sickening. That reminds me a statement said above, when 'few' bands do good in something people try to imitate it and fail. Which is why most good bands usually start when they're: bored, just want to have fun, and not the mentality of :dude, let's do this b/c (band name niche genre here) and (band name niche genre 2 here) got big.

 

...I just checked his myspace...I'll leave the negative homophobic comments on the back burner. As far as guys imitating him, you ever heard of Boy George?

[georg79]

Where are the MySpace superstars - I was just being sarcastic. I am sorry that I didn't took the time to make this clear to some of you.

 

I hope you understand that this website and forum has also many visitors and members from other parts of the world. We don't necessarily share the same mentality, we don't necessarily share the same culture. We don't have the same social reflexes.

 

I have a point of view - I have the right to have a point of view. And if this point of view includes sarcasm, because of differences in culture, why should it lead to me being judged? Why should I be characterized as such and such a person?

 

I am truly sorry if I have offended the business and the financial gain of any of you - if you are related to MySpace, that is.

 

Superstars? There are some superstars out there. Maybe 3% of the music industry. My opinion is that MySpace and the similar internet businesses (multi million corporations) invest in the fear and ego of people. People like to hear that with a free page they can become famous. Reality is hard to accept.

 

I know bands and musicians who hire companies to inflate their MySpace friend lists, streams, plays and views. If you go to a search engine and spend a few minutes, you will find out if I am right or wrong.

 

Perhaps it is legal in the Unites States to offer such services. I am not aware of the legislation. But I don't find it ethical. And, if a company is unethical for publicly offering its bots and "social network team", what can be said about the musician who pays for these services?

 

What can be said about MySpace and all similar so called "social networks" who clearly know about this and pretend that everything is normal?

 

Why are we attacking the radio stations and the labels for the playlists scandal and at the same time we say nothing about MySpace changing its online agreement?

 

A lot of people claim that MySpace offers exposure, so the company should not be obliged to pay royalties. Please explain to me then why the royalties societies have already begun negotiations with the "social networks" corporations regarding the money due to the artists?

 

Do you thing BMI, ASCAP, SESAC e.t.c. are wrong, too?

 

Will you send back the check to your royalties society, explaining to your representative that you don't want to receive any money from MySpace, since your art was "exposed" to the beautiful world of the social network?

[Dean Roddey]

I got my first friend request the other day (I've just had my page up for a few weeks), and I really didn't know how to do one myself. So I did a google search for MySpace and how to make a friend request, and up popped many links to programs designed to game the view counts, to automatically get you thousands of friends and so forth. Of course half of those may themselves be scams, I dunno. But clearly there's some sort of cottage industry out there for ways to game the Myspace system, so you cannot really trust much of what you see there.

 

Of course, back in the good old days, purchases were the ultimate arbiter. You either bought it or you didn't.

[sabriel9v]

 

I got my first friend request the other day (I've just had my page up for a few weeks), and I really didn't know how to do one myself. So I did a google search for MySpace and how to make a friend request, and up popped many links to programs designed to game the view counts, to automatically get you thousands of friends and so forth. Of course half of those may themselves be scams, I dunno. But clearly there's some sort of cottage industry out there for ways to game the Myspace system, so you cannot really trust much of what you see there. Of course, back in the good old days, purchases were the ultimate arbiter. You either bought it or you didn't.

 

 

Dean Roddey, you know how to do a friend request. You own a software company right?

[maclothier]

I'm pretty sure Andy McKee isn't a "superstar" by any stretch of the imagination (see BlueStrat's interesting remarks about "superstardom" in today's music world), but I'd say YouTube made him much more popular than he was prior to his video being up.

 

Here's an article from my hometown website about him:

http://www.lawrence.com/news/2007/nov/09/post_position/

 

Just thought I'd weigh in with a possible example of the kind (not the exact) of example that the OP may have had in mind. There - that sentence was wishy-washy enough to hope to avoid getting flamed!

 

Peace

[Dean Roddey]

 

Dean Roddey, you know how to do a friend request. You own a software company right?

 

 

The answer seemed obvious, but I wasn't completely sure, so I checked first and it's not in their FAQ, I assume because they assume it's so obvious as not to have to be answered. The button on each page says add them as a friend, not send them a friend request. I wasn't sure of they were the same thing.

[BlueStrat]

 

Perhaps it is legal in the Unites States to offer such services. I am not aware of the legislation. But I don't find it ethical. And, if a company is unethical for publicly offering its bots and "social network team", what can be said about the musician who pays for these services?

 

 

What? Some musicians may use unethical means to get ahead? OH, DEAR GOD, NO!! SAY IT ISN'T SO!!

[thedolaon]

i'm going to be honest!

 

as someone who is coming from a young perspective, when using the friend adder things is not to be annoying, it's just another part of promotion. If you serious about trying to get people to hear you on myspace, friend adders help you out. I used it once to see what happened, i add requested 300 people and pretty much 250 of them added me and half of those people wrote me comments on thx for adding liking the tunes. Some of the people it added were DJs and some are doing remixes of my first song, (there's one on my page now), and that gets me even more promotion on their site. You just got to know how to work the system (in a good way, not spam way). Doing this has helped me network in a different way. And also, for the big radio peoples, they can't sit down and add 3000 people a day, they use machines to send bulletins and add people. So it's not spam, it's just another use of promotion.

 

Now, bluestrat. I've looked up internet radio stations as a alternative marketing tool AND I'M DEFINITELY GETTING ON THAT!! I would have never thought of that.

[twohands]

 

Argghhhh... You guys keep contradicting yourselves. The problem isn't that the labels dictate what's being played on radio. The issue is that the labels have created the only currently workable means of creating hits sufficiently broad enough that the radios will play. It's not their fault, and they aren't doing anything wrong, because they have a means of getting their artists nationally recognized, while Youtube doesn't. It's just that, despite the hype about the internet, it doesn't seem capable of doing that, because it's a passive medium that cannot be used to push artists. It can only put them out there for people to come to.

 

 

right on here.....you tube, and myspace are becoming dated. There is an oversaturation of crap on the net and a label only looks to these sites as marketing research, and even then its taken wit a grain of salt. Granted they can be good ways to connect with fans, they do not mean you will sell records because of it. Radio wants good music, labels sign good music, ergo labels give music to radio.