Where are the MySpace superstars?

[Dean Roddey]

 

the labels are not worried about individual artists who gain an audience via the internet. they can buy those and maintain control of that product.

 

 

No one has to sign with them. This is silly. If you think you have a better way to the promised land, you don't have to sign with them. The artists mentioned on this thread who got some attention via the net and immediatley signed with a label did so because they felt it was the best way to benefit their careers.

 

 

alternative ways of getting a record onto the radio is scary. people going direct to artists to license music is scary.

 

 

Perhaps so, but that's not proof of anything and not really relevant to the argument.

 

 

they block anything that might make them obsolete. maybe you haven't heard. CDs don't sell like they used to.

 

 

How? You just say it, you don't provide any proof or even any theory as to how they may be controlling companies far larger than them.

[mickeydean]

 

But you really have it backwards, don't you? You get on a major radio station by being majorly well known. You can't get majorly well known without being on a label, not because they control that process but because they provide a workable way to do it, whereas the internet, despite the claims, does not. Do you really think that if you, independent of the labels, had a massively popular hit that the major radio stations wouldn't play it just because you aren't with a label? I have a hard time believing that. They are in business for themselves, not to pimp for the labels. But no one has had a massively popular hit outside of the labels, that I know of. So you are blaming them for having a working system, not because they are preventing anyone else from having one.

 

 

no you get on a major radio station by being pushed there by a major labels and being on playlists which is why all the stations play all the same songs.

 

only people on major labels can get on the radio. that's the point. the labels care about controlling access not talent. they can manufacture talent and tell you that you love it as long as they can control access.

[Dean Roddey]

 

only people on major labels can get on the radio. that's the point. the labels care about controlling access not talent. they can manufacture talent and tell you that you love it as long as they can control access.

 

 

I don't believe that the labels can tell ClearChannel, a company probably many times the size of all the labels put together, what they play. I think you are getting the cart before the horse. The labels are a known source of content, with a proven track record. They sign bands that are promising and which have already gotten attention. And they have a marketing department to make sure that people know about their artists. So obviously it would be easier for a ClearChannel to play what those labels are pushing, not because they are beholden to the labels or controlled by them, but because they know that these artists are the ones most likely to make it, having gotten through all the filters necessary to get signed by a major label.

 

This is one of the things I keep trying to emphasize. The internet is a passive medium. The customer has to come to you. This is why it will always be hard to use as a promotional tool. The labels provide that pushy marketing department to keep their artists on people's radar screens. That's one of the big services they provide. The Myspace thing is a 'build a better mousetrap' type of scenario, but everyone knows that only rarely do they come when you do that. You have to get out there and convince them that your mousetrap is better, and Myspace and the internet is generally is not conducive to that, because the best you can do is just annoy people by constantly pushing your stuff. It's still really the broadcast type of scenarios (whether literally or via the internet, i.e. one person to whom many people listen to, etc...) where it's possible to get out a single opinion to a lot of people. Getting reviewed on NPR or something like that would likely have way more weight than being on Myspace still.

 

But anyway, again I have to ask. If you had a huge hit, outside of the labels, do you really think that the major radio stations wouldn't play it because it didn't come from the labels? If you think that they would, and I have no doubt that they would, then clearly the labels are not preventing anyone from getting on a major radio station. What's preventing them is that the internet is not really a viable platform to get that widespread attention and hype going that is required to get nationally known and therefore rate getting on the major stations.

 

And some stations do have new music shows and whatnot. My local rock station has a new music show where they play lesser known, often local, bands. Clearly the labels are not preventing them from doing this. But, having done that, do you think that everyone runs out and buys these band's records? Probably not, because though it's exposure, it's not marketing of the type that gets a band into the national or world consciousness. And the bulk of consumers do not go looking for content on their own.

[sabriel9v]

 

I don't believe that the labels can tell ClearChannel, a company probably many times the size of all the labels put together, what they play. I think you are getting the cart before the horse. The labels are a known source of content, with a proven track record. They sign bands that are promising and which have already gotten attention. And they have a marketing department to make sure that people know about their artists. So obviously it would be easier for a ClearChannel to play what those labels are pushing, not because they are beholden to the labels or controlled by them, but because they know that these artists are the ones most likely to make it, having gotten through all the filters necessary to get signed by a major label. This is one of the things I keep trying to emphasize. The internet is a passive medium. The customer has to come to you. This is why it will always be hard to use as a promotional tool. The labels provide that pushy marketing department to keep their artists on people's radar screens. That's one of the big services they provide. The Myspace thing is a 'build a better mousetrap' type of scenario, but everyone knows that only rarely do they come when you do that. You have to get out there and convince them that your mousetrap is better, and Myspace and the internet is generally is not conducive to that, because the best you can do is just annoy people by constantly pushing your stuff. It's still really the broadcast type of scenarios (whether literally or via the internet, i.e. one person to whom many people listen to, etc...) where it's possible to get out a single opinion to a lot of people. Getting reviewed on NPR or something like that would likely have way more weight than being on Myspace still. But anyway, again I have to ask. If you had a huge hit, outside of the labels, do you really think that the major radio stations wouldn't play it because it didn't come from the labels? If you think that they would, and I have no doubt that they would, then clearly the labels are not preventing anyone from getting on a major radio station. What's preventing them is that the internet is not really a viable platform to get that widespread attention and hype going that is required to get nationally known and therefore rate getting on the major stations. And some stations do have new music shows and whatnot. My local rock station has a new music show where they play lesser known, often local, bands. Clearly the labels are not preventing them from doing this. But, having done that, do you think that everyone runs out and buys these band's records? Probably not, because though it's exposure, it's not marketing of the type that gets a band into the national or world consciousness. And the bulk of consumers do not go looking for content on their own.

 

 

 

The only way I could see someone creating a huge hit without major label help would be through youtube or another grassroots medium. Labels totally dictate whats being played on the radio. Many radio stations have some sort of locals only show or locals live and I feel that there's way of giving back to the local music community. But they aren't making the majority of their money from those shows.

[Dean Roddey]

Argghhhh... You guys keep contradicting yourselves. The problem isn't that the labels dictate what's being played on radio. The issue is that the labels have created the only currently workable means of creating hits sufficiently broad enough that the radios will play. It's not their fault, and they aren't doing anything wrong, because they have a means of getting their artists nationally recognized, while Youtube doesn't. It's just that, despite the hype about the internet, it doesn't seem capable of doing that, because it's a passive medium that cannot be used to push artists. It can only put them out there for people to come to.

[sabriel9v]

 

Argghhhh... You guys keep contradicting yourselves. The problem isn't that the labels dictate what's being played on radio. The issue is that the labels have created the only currently workable means of creating hits sufficiently broad enough that the radios will play. It's not their fault, and they aren't doing anything wrong, because they have a means of getting their artists nationally recognized, while Youtube doesn't. It's just that, despite the hype about the internet, it doesn't seem capable of doing that, because it's a passive medium that cannot be used to push artists. It can only put them out there for people to come to.

 

 

Hmm...so are you saying that if I create something, I don't dictate the terms upon which my creation is based upon?

[Dean Roddey]

I really don't understand your point there, you may have to elaborate.

[uzybear]

ehhhhhhh.........once they get popular they move off myspace, into a label, a professional website, and all that other corporate crap; there's no reason to think the internet in ANY FORM is going to make a band

 

but myspace is free, and real neat and nifty for poor, emerging artists

[sabriel9v]

 

I really don't understand your point there, you may have to elaborate.

 

 

You said,"The problem isn't that the labels dictate what's being played on radio. The issue is that the labels have created the only currently workable means of creating hits sufficiently broad enough that the radios will play."

 

Doesnt this mean that the labels dictate whats being played. They created the only workable means of creating hits...mainstream radio focuses on gearing about 90-95% of their airtime on hits. Hence, the labels run the radio. Have you ever heard of payola?

[sabriel9v]

btw I just got through looking at a slew of small venues in West GA and the bands that they had in their top 8 on myspace...{censored} myspace. Wheres the smiley face for mixed emotions?

[Dean Roddey]

 

Doesnt this mean that the labels dictate whats being played. They created the only workable means of creating hits...mainstream radio focuses on gearing about 90-95% of their airtime on hits. Hence, the labels run the radio.

 

 

OK, follow me... The argument was that the labels *control* the means of getting onto the radio. They do not. Anyone can get onto the radio, they have to create a hit that the radio would want to play. The labels have developed over the years a means for creating those hits and getting people interested in them, so that therefore the radio wants to play them. They have absolutely no control over the radio playing your hit if you can create one.

 

Being the only people who have invented a viable mechanism for creating the product that radios want is not the same thing as controlling what the radio plays. It just means that, despite all the complaining about how horrible they are, they have a working system and no on else has yet figured out do it without them.

 

 

Have you ever heard of payola?

 

 

In the 50s, yeh I have. But if you are going to claim that payola is what controls gets onto the radio these days, you will have to provide some proof of it. You can't just wave it around as an explanation.

[mickeydean]

 

OK, follow me... The argument was that the labels *control* the means of getting onto the radio. They do not. Anyone can get onto the radio, they have to create a hit that the radio would want to play. The labels have developed over the years a means for creating those hits and getting people interested in them, so that therefore the radio wants to play them. They have absolutely no control over the radio playing your hit if you can create one. Being the only people who have invented a viable mechanism for creating the product that radios want is not the same thing as controlling what the radio plays. It just means that, despite all the complaining about how horrible they are, they have a working system and no on else has yet figured out do it without them. In the 50s, yeh I have. But if you are going to claim that payola is what controls gets onto the radio these days, you will have to provide some proof of it. You can't just wave it around as an explanation.

 

 

lol you express an opinion with no proof whatsoever and anybody who disagrees with you needs to provide proof?

 

lol i make my living in the music biz and have for a very long time. you make software right?

 

proof. you slay me. anybody can get on the radio and all they have to do is create a hit everybody will want to play? lol

[Dean Roddey]

So then please explain Sub-Pop for me? Here's a label that went from almost nothing to huge in a short period of time. How exactly did they do that if the major labels control the radio and the radio will only play what comes from them?

 

All they had was content that enormous numbers of people around the world wanted to hear. And that's what the radio cares about. They make their money by getting people to listen to them, and people to listen to them if they play what people want to hear.

 

How much payola do you think the labels would have had to cough up to prevent the radio stations from playing Nirvana's albums. Content talks in the end.

[sabriel9v]

 

OK, follow me... The argument was that the labels *control* the means of getting onto the radio. They do not. Anyone can get onto the radio, they have to create a hit that the radio would want to play. The labels have developed over the years a means for creating those hits and getting people interested in them, so that therefore the radio wants to play them. They have absolutely no control over the radio playing your hit if you can create one. Being the only people who have invented a viable mechanism for creating the product that radios want is not the same thing as controlling what the radio plays. It just means that, despite all the complaining about how horrible they are, they have a working system and no on else has yet figured out do it without them. In the 50s, yeh I have. But if you are going to claim that payola is what controls gets onto the radio these days, you will have to provide some proof of it. You can't just wave it around as an explanation.

 

 

 

Smaller bands can get on the local radio shows, but you have to specify that in your argument. If you want to primetime afternoon airtime on a major radio station, you arent going to get that without label backing.

[sabriel9v]

 

So then please explain Sub-Pop for me? Here's a label that went from almost nothing to enormous in a short period of time, and almost dominated the radio for years. How exactly did they do that if the major labels control the radio and the radio will only play what comes from them? All they had was content that enormous numbers of people around the world wanted to hear. And that's what the radio cares about. They make their money by getting people to listen to them, and people to listen to them if they play what people want to hear. How much payola do you think the labels would have had to cough up to prevent the radio stations from playing Pearl Jam's album that debuted at almost a million sales? Content talks in the end.

 

 

You said, "So then please explain Sub-Pop for me? Here's a label that went from almost nothing to enormous in a short period of time, and almost dominated the radio for years. How exactly did they do that if the major labels control the radio and the radio will only play what comes from them?"

 

You said it yourself. Sub Pop dominated the radio for years. Their artists were on the radio because of their label backing them. Sub Pop is really more of a major label now as opposed to the small indie label it was in the late 80s and early 90s.

[Dean Roddey]

But wait a minute... You guys keep changing the playing field here. If the major labels control what can get on the radio, it would have been impossible for Sub-Pop to go from a small indie label to a huge label because they'd not have gotten the radio play required to get the national (and world wide) exposure required to do that. They elbowed their way into the radio space because they had the content that everyone wanted to hear. They were NOT a major label when their music exploded out into the mainstream after Nevermind broke big. But they still got major radio play because they had the hits.

 

So it's clear from this example that if you create the hits, you can get on the radio all over the world and the major labels cannot stop it.

[sabriel9v]

 

But wait a minute... You guys keep changing the playing field here. If the major labels control what can get on the radio, it would have been impossible for Sub-Pop to go from a small indie label to a huge label because they'd not have gotten the radio play required to get the national (and world wide) exposure required to do that. They elbowed their way into the radio space because they had the content that everyone wanted to hear. They were NOT a major label when their music exploded out into the mainstream after Nevermind broke big. But they still got major radio play because they had the hits. So it's clear from this example that if you create the hits, you can get on the radio all over the world and the major labels cannot stop it.

 

 

:arg: This is one case example and it's really not that solid. There are a myriad of reasons as to why Sub Pop artists were on the radio and it wasn't just because they created "hits"

[Dean Roddey]

 

This is one case example and it's really not that solid. There are a myriad of reasons as to why Sub Pop artists were on the radio and it wasn't just because they created "hits"

 

 

What are those reasons? I think it's pretty clear that Nirvana and SoundGarden and Mudhoney were all extremely popular bands. I don't think that their being on the radio was due to political machinations or anything.

 

It only takes one example to prove that the claims being made are not true. If it can be done once, it can be done again, and it proves that if you have the content, you can get on the radio, major label or not.

[sabriel9v]

 

What are those reasons? I think it's pretty clear that Nirvana and SoundGarden and Mudhoney were all extremely popular bands. I don't think that their being on the radio was due to political machinations or anything. It only takes one example to prove that the claims being made are not true. If it can be done once, it can be done again, and it proves that if you have the content, you can get on the radio, major label or not.

 

 

Hmm lets take into account that Nirvana, Soundgarden, and Mudhoney all toured extensively in the early 90s and promoted the hell out of their {censored}. In other words they had laid the groundwork to do what it takes to gain a loyal fanbase and not only get on the radio, but get people to listen. Nirvana was on tour with Sonic Youth at one point and they all worked from the ground up. Those bands ethos was born out of ashes of the punk rock era that preceded them. Do you honestly think Chris Cornell and Kurt Cobain just sat in a room together and said...hey lets make a hit? It'll be good fun and the radio guys will love it.

[Dean Roddey]

 

Do you honestly think Chris Cornell and Kurt Cobain just sat in a room together and said...hey lets make a hit? It'll be good fun and the radio guys will love it.

 

 

No, I don't. But you keep evading the point that they made it outside of the major label system. That was the argument being made above, that it cannot be done. They did it, so it can be done. That's all I'm saying. They did it by writing songs that people wanted to hear. Radios play songs people want to hear, because that gets them better numbers, which lets them charge more for ads. So if you have the stuff people want to hear, you can get on the radio because that's the business they are in. And Sub-Pop proved this can be done without a major label, contrary to the snarky condescension that was directed at me previously on this thread that I'm just expressing opinions without any basis in fact, and that I'm a mere software engineer.

[thedolaon]

Tila Tequila does she count?

 

She basically just added everybody when myspace started. She's unsigned but basically has myspace AND reg. masses popularity.

[Microwave Walrus]

Sean Kingston?

Tay Zonday, but that was youtube...close to the same thing tho

[sabriel9v]

 

Tila Tequila does she count? She basically just added everybody when myspace started. She's unsigned but basically has myspace AND reg. masses popularity.

 

 

Ding ding! She probably is the ONLY true myspace star. She didnt have jack{censored} before myspace, but got a reality tv show and record contract out of it. But who knows how many people, man or woman, she screwed behind the scenes to get that stuff. Either way, she is a true myspace superstar.

[keithtoxic]

 

Ding ding! She probably is the ONLY true myspace star. She didnt have jack{censored} before myspace, but got a reality tv show and record contract out of it. But who knows how many people, man or woman, she screwed behind the scenes to get that stuff. Either way, she is a true myspace superstar.

 

 

What about Jeffree Star? He doesn't have a record label but his crappy music and name/face is everywhere. They sell his shirts at hot topic, his stickam has a million people in it all the time, he has a huge fan base, and he appears in tons of artists stuff(he was in the music video for some aiden song, and he guest vocals on some hollywood undead)

 

Theres quite a few "true myspace superstars"

[BlueStrat]

 

Ding ding! She probably is the ONLY true myspace star. She didnt have jack{censored} before myspace, but got a reality tv show and record contract out of it. But who knows how many people, man or woman, she screwed behind the scenes to get that stuff. Either way, she is a true myspace superstar.

 

 

Well, not quite. She had a little help from Playboy and the Nuge.

 

 

"Nguyen's career began at the age of 18 when she was discovered at the Sharpstown Mall by a Playboy scout and was offered a chance to model nude for the magazine. She did a test shoot,[8] then eventually moved to Southern California and was featured as Playboy’s Cyber Girl of the week on April 22, 2002, and soon thereafter she became the first Asian Cyber Girl of the Month.[9] A few more pictorals for the magazine followed.[3]

Nguyen gained further popularity through the import racing scene. She has been featured on the cover of Import Tuner magazine, at car shows such as Hot Import Nights, and in the video game Street Racing Syndicate.[10] In 2003, she was a contestant on VH1's Surviving Nugent, a reality TV show where participants performed compromising tasks and stunts for rock star Ted Nugent.[11]"

 

 

She may have used Myspace to sell records, but she was already a known quantity.