Members mrbrown49 Posted March 15, 2011 Members Share Posted March 15, 2011 You are using the right setting to test continuity. It's just a pass/fail kind of test. I'd triple check your wiring and make sure all grounds are good and solid joints, nice and shiny. Reflow the joints if you need too. If all the wiring checks out I'd look at shielding the control cavity. Is the back of the control cover shielded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GomezAddams1 Posted March 15, 2011 Members Share Posted March 15, 2011 All guitars have the strings grounded, Humbuckers or otherwise. Cavity shielding with metalic paint or copper foil is a good point too. You still need the bridge grounded to be effective in any case. Youll find the older pauls with the small wood screw type TOM studs often has the stop tail grounded between the wood and the insert. With the larger bridge studs that have a metal insert they may be grounded at the bridge. The wire contacts the insert between the insert and the wood, not anyplace where the threads are. Threads would cut the ground wire and make it ineffective. My 76 LP standard does *not* have grounded strings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrbrown49 Posted March 15, 2011 Members Share Posted March 15, 2011 My 76 LP standard does *not* have grounded strings. I wouldn't look to the 70s as example of how to do things right. If that were case all guitars would weigh 50lbs and we'd be playing them out of 4 100 watt stacks. The strings really should be grounded. If you are really worried about being a shocked a large cap btw the output and string ground is enough protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members notjonahbutnoah Posted March 15, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 15, 2011 OK, cool, goot to know I was testing it ok. I could see how another setting might be better, but now how the one I was using was inaccurate. I will f*cking quadruple check that stuff out tonight. As far as sheilding goes... what can I use? Can I use reg'lar ole aluminum foil? What about that foil tape stuff? There is that black paint inside the cavity, but no metallic shielding. I would take a pic, but my camera is currently MIA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members xrleroyx Posted March 15, 2011 Members Share Posted March 15, 2011 Agree... the really, really, really, really, {censored}ty LPs. My $4400 Les Paul Florentine has this issue. Just straight up not grounded at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted March 15, 2011 Members Share Posted March 15, 2011 Aluminum foil is hard to work with because it's hard to solder to aluminum. I prefer copper tape. You can get droves of it for cheap on the internet. Try to get some with conductive adhesive, it makes everything stupidly easy. If there's black paint, test with a multimeter to see if it's conductive. If that's the case, no need for metal. Just make sure that it indeed gets grounded somehow (a ring terminal + a screw is a good way to ground if it isn't.) Keep in mind that it'll probably get grounded anyway, since the shaft of the pots will touch the metallic paint. Also, continuity tests are great but keep in mind that in a guitar, you should have a round trip from hot to ground so you'll get continuity whether you test from hot to ground or from hot to hot or from ground to ground. However, the resistance is usually much higher from hot to ground, so it'll take longer for the continuity to register. You could always test resistance. Infinite means no connection, high means some connection but probably on opposite sides of the circuit, and very low resistance means connected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members notjonahbutnoah Posted March 15, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 15, 2011 Aluminum foil is hard to work with because it's hard to solder to aluminum. I prefer copper tape. You can get droves of it for cheap on the internet. Try to get some with conductive adhesive, it makes everything stupidly easy.If there's black paint, test with a multimeter to see if it's conductive. If that's the case, no need for metal. Just make sure that it indeed gets grounded somehow (a ring terminal + a screw is a good way to ground if it isn't.)Keep in mind that it'll probably get grounded anyway, since the shaft of the pots will touch the metallic paint.Also, continuity tests are great but keep in mind that in a guitar, you should have a round trip from hot to ground so you'll get continuity whether you test from hot to ground or from hot to hot or from ground to ground. However, the resistance is usually much higher from hot to ground, so it'll take longer for the continuity to register. You could always test resistance. Infinite means no connection, high means some connection but probably on opposite sides of the circuit, and very low resistance means connected. Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. Lots of delicious info here. Awesome. So... I understand everything, except what setting to use to test resistance. What notch should I click the dial on for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Belva Posted March 15, 2011 Members Share Posted March 15, 2011 Look at your meter. V = volts. Ain't those. A= amps. not those either. The area with that upside down looking u shaped thang, that be ohms, or continuity. Bottom left of part of your meter. Set it at the lowest numerical value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Superrust Posted March 15, 2011 Members Share Posted March 15, 2011 These might helpTo help with foil grounding - How to use your multimeter - Use multimeter you measure a pot - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4jtJUedlHgUnderstanding ground loops - That should keep you busy and they helped me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BoneNut Posted March 15, 2011 Members Share Posted March 15, 2011 My $4400 Les Paul Florentine has this issue. Just straight up not grounded at all. Didn't mention anything about expensive or cheap... just shitty. Funny though, I had a $440 Epi semihollow LP Florentine copy and it was grounded just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted March 15, 2011 Members Share Posted March 15, 2011 I still think ground loops in a guitar are an absolute myth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members notjonahbutnoah Posted March 16, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 16, 2011 Hey, thanks for all the responses, guys! I didn't get home until about 30 minutes before I had to go to bed last night, but tonight it's on. I still think ground loops in a guitar are an absolute myth. I have heard cases for both sides from people who seem pretty smart. I don't understand enough to really know. I would seem like they're not real because the flow is all headed to the same place and wouldn't deviate from it's course for no reason. I dunno. I only kind of understand this shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members webwarmiller Posted March 16, 2011 Members Share Posted March 16, 2011 I still think ground loops in a guitar are an absolute myth. That would be because a ground loop by the electrical definition IS impossible within an electric guitar with a single jack......no matter how you choose to ground things within a guitar they MUST all converge at a single point (the jack) in order for the guitar to work. There can be all sorts of physical looping of ground wires within an electric guitar, but they will NOT produce an electric ground loop. The video regarding ground loops posted by Superrust had to do with ground loops between two amplifiers plugged into different locations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members notjonahbutnoah Posted March 16, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 16, 2011 That would be because a ground loop by the electrical definition IS impossible within an electric guitar with a single jack......no matter how you choose to ground things within a guitar they MUST all converge at a single point (the jack) in order for the guitar to work. There can be all sorts of physical looping of ground wires within an electric guitar, but they will NOT produce an electric ground loop. The video regarding ground loops posted by Superrust had to do with ground loops between two amplifiers plugged into different locations. Could said looping around in a guitar circuit cause noise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Armitage Posted March 16, 2011 Members Share Posted March 16, 2011 All guitars have the strings grounded, Humbuckers or otherwise... Most guitars with active pickups, eg EMGs, don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members webwarmiller Posted March 16, 2011 Members Share Posted March 16, 2011 Could said looping around in a guitar circuit cause noise? Not as long as they don't come in contact with anything but other grounds. When all is said and done, they ALL converge at the jack. With that said, I still wire all my grounds to the back of a single pot in one big ole clump of solder. This is simply because I want to solder to the back of the pots as few times as possible; less chance of burning a pot or a cold solder joint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members notjonahbutnoah Posted March 16, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 16, 2011 Not as long as they don't come in contact with anything but other grounds. When all is said and done, they ALL converge at the jack. With that said, I still wire all my grounds to the back of a single pot in one big ole clump of solder. This is simply because I want to solder to the back of the pots as few times as possible; less chance of burning a pot or a cold solder joint. Gotcha. Ok, riddle me this. You think that my noise could be caused by nothing connecting the ground to the shielding paint? Again, it's noise that's always there, in a setup that isn't noisy on it's own, however when I touch any metal, grounded component, the noise goes away mostly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrbrown49 Posted March 16, 2011 Members Share Posted March 16, 2011 Ok, riddle me this. You think that my noise could be caused by nothing connecting the ground to the shielding paint? Again, it's noise that's always there, in a setup that isn't noisy on it's own, however when I touch any metal, grounded component, the noise goes away mostly. It could be. Shielding doesn't work unless it's connected to ground. Usually the pots sitting on the paint is enough, but are you sure it's actually shielding paint? When you touch the strings you become a shield so you block out radiation from most of one side, which usually makes things quieter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members webwarmiller Posted March 16, 2011 Members Share Posted March 16, 2011 Ok, riddle me this. You think that my noise could be caused by nothing connecting the ground to the shielding paint? Again, it's noise that's always there, in a setup that isn't noisy on it's own, however when I touch any metal, grounded component, the noise goes away mostly. Possibly, but as Mrbrown49 stated the pots should be making a ground to the shielding paint already. Wouldn't hurt to run a quick wire from the back of the pot to a ring terminal attached to the shielding paint. Of course, at the same time I've got HB equipped guitars with ZERO shielding in the cavity and they are dead quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members notjonahbutnoah Posted March 16, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 16, 2011 Hmmm, yeah, I just can't seem to figure this out. I've definitely got some testing to do. I really want one of those ground testers for outlets, unless there's a way to figure that out with a multimeter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrbrown49 Posted March 16, 2011 Members Share Posted March 16, 2011 Hmmm, yeah, I just can't seem to figure this out. I've definitely got some testing to do. I really want one of those ground testers for outlets, unless there's a way to figure that out with a multimeter. Those outlet testers are under 5 bucks at home depot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted March 16, 2011 Members Share Posted March 16, 2011 Not as long as they don't come in contact with anything but other grounds. When all is said and done, they ALL converge at the jack. With that said, I still wire all my grounds to the back of a single pot in one big ole clump of solder. This is simply because I want to solder to the back of the pots as few times as possible; less chance of burning a pot or a cold solder joint.I personally like to have lots of little grounds all over the pots with no more than one or two wire at each. It just looks more professional and it often is much easier to use shorter and more manageable leads in the control cavity, which, in addition to looking nice, makes sure that no unwanted contacts get made. Also, easy to change pickups/wiring and such. You should never burn a pot once your soldering tech is good enough. But yeah, you can't have a grounding loop in a guitar because first of all, the notion is stupid. Electrons don't care if it goes through a copper wire, or if it goes through the back of a pot, whatever, it still has a direct path to the ground. Second, and more importantly, there's no voltage difference in a passive circuit between different parts. A guitar control cavity is a passive circuit. Lot of people seem to apply the logic of active circuits to guitars and it just doesn't work. Pots, caps, everything just subtracts from the output of the pickups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members notjonahbutnoah Posted March 16, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 16, 2011 Those outlet testers are under 5 bucks at home depot. Yeah, the guy in the vid kept saying that, I think I'll grab one. Seems like a smart thing to have. Learning all this stuff is helping a lot, the electricity world is getting a little clearer every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pope on a Rope Posted March 16, 2011 Members Share Posted March 16, 2011 At this point I would just tear it down and do it again. Three days of poking around and getting nowhere is way too much. Just redo it already. You might even find what's wrong before you get it all apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrbrown49 Posted March 16, 2011 Members Share Posted March 16, 2011 Yeah, the guy in the vid kept saying that, I think I'll grab one. Seems like a smart thing to have. Learning all this stuff is helping a lot, the electricity world is getting a little clearer every day. It's a great thing to have in your bag. I know you gig a lot, so you should test the outlet's before you play. I've seen places have some outlets with open grounds and some that were just fine, on the same stage. Hell, my apartment is that way but it's a 100 year old building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.