sustain on strat?

[mrbrown49]

 

I am not try to pursuit as much sustain as possible. I just bought this one new and played it, feels not right sometime and I played my old Strat and I know its because the sustain. That's why I asked. I just try to get enough sustain as it should be

 

 

Oh I wasn't saying something wasn't off on your guitar, that was more of an 'in general' kind of statement.

 

Most of the time I run into an issue like this it's either a setup issue, or a fret work issue like a high fret, worn tops etc. Might be worth having it evaluated by a good tech if you aren't sure what to look for. This is a hard kind of thing to diagnose over the web aside general advice at what the issue could be.

[venusshore]

 

Oh I wasn't saying something wasn't off on your guitar, that was more of an 'in general' kind of statement. Most of the time I run into an issue like this it's either a setup issue, or a fret work issue like a high fret, worn tops etc. Might be worth having it evaluated by a good tech if you aren't sure what to look for. This is a hard kind of thing to diagnose over the web aside general advice at what the issue could be.

 

 

True. a tech is working on it now.

[mrbrown49]

 

True. a tech is working on it now.

 

 

Very cool. Report back. I'm really curious to hear what's going on with that one.

[11justin22]

Somehing crazy but I was having a problem with a strat sounding rather dead recently asked around on some forums and someone suggested making sure the tuners were tight. I checked and sure enough the barrel nuts that hold the tuners on were only hand tight. Tightned them down a little and the guitar came alive.

[100 watt]

OK. brass saddles - how about brass trem block? My other strat is a MIM deluxe Strat, its has golden hardware but I am not sure what kind of saddle on that one. It has better sustain.

 

 

I havent tried the brass block yet but looking for one to try in my next project. Between that, and 5 trem springs, that oughtta be interesting (with the right wood anyway)

[scott944]

Curious - was this guitar purchased online? Perfect example of why I (YMMV) always try before I buy. When I bought a MIM Strat a few years back, I visited a half dozen stores over the course of a month or so until I found "the one". There really is a difference from one to the next. I got rid of a PRS Santana SE recently due to this same issue (bought it at a guitar show, so I couldn't really hear it - felt fabulous) - it was just dead. Pro setup, new Duncans, nothing helped. A while back, someone here described a test for resonance - place the instrument on end, with the bottom strap button on your knee, hold loosely with your left hand, placing your left thumb on the back of the neck around the area of the neck joint. Pluck strings with your free hand and feel for resonance with left thumb. My dead PRS failed that test. The Hamer that replaced it (import, no less) passed with flying colors - and sings like a bird.

[billybilly]

 

Is it enough sustain though? I don't think I've met the guitar yet that I couldn't coax enough sustain out of it. Frankly I think guitarists put too much importance on sustain. It's not that big of a deal IMO as long as everything is working properly.

 

 

I agree with you on this point, it just happens this is my feedback, crazy whammy guitar and sustain is essential for the type of music I play on it.

[venusshore]

 

Curious - was this guitar purchased online? Perfect example of why I (YMMV) always try before I buy. When I bought a MIM Strat a few years back, I visited a half dozen stores over the course of a month or so until I found "the one". There really is a difference from one to the next. I got rid of a PRS Santana SE recently due to this same issue (bought it at a guitar show, so I couldn't really hear it - felt fabulous) - it was just dead. Pro setup, new Duncans, nothing helped. A while back, someone here described a test for resonance - place the instrument on end, with the bottom strap button on your knee, hold loosely with your left hand, placing your left thumb on the back of the neck around the area of the neck joint. Pluck strings with your free hand and feel for resonance with left thumb. My dead PRS failed that test. The Hamer that replaced it (import, no less) passed with flying colors - and sings like a bird.

 

 

I bought this one at actual store. I compared several same models and chose this one. It's a display unit, but plays and feels great.

Just when I came back home I found it feels not correct when I turn on my overdrive pedal. Then I found its because the sustain, especially on high E string.

 

The resonance on the body has no problem, as far as I compared this with my other MIM strat.

[DaleH]

FLOATING....and I've fixed my original post to clear this up..

 

 

I have tried decking but aleays go back to floating. Just seems to play and sound better.

[DaleH]

I bought this one at actual store. I compared several same models and chose this one. It's a display unit, but plays and feels great. Just when I came back home I found it feels not correct when I turn on my overdrive pedal. Then I found its because the sustain, especially on high E string. The resonance on the body has no problem, as far as I compared this with my other MIM strat.

 

 

It's a setup issue. My MIA strat was like that . the B. E just died out . I ended up having to get the neck straight (with a metal straight edge ruler) not what I thought was straight.

Then I followed this Strat setup guild. Been playing great since.

http://www.fender.com/en-CA/support/articles/stratocaster-setup-guide/

[Jarick]

I'm very curious to hear how this plays out.

 

I've got a Fender California Strat, very similar to yours, except with a more modern neck. I wanted to trick it out a bit but I'm worried about dumping too much money into it.

 

My problem is a lot like yours, it's kind of dead sounding. Notes don't ring out, they just kind of plink and die. I picked up a couple trem screws and put all 5 in there and tightened it down, no change. Then I got a 1/2" thick block of wood and placed between the trem and body and loosened up the screws a bit until it locked in place, no change. Played with the 6-screw trem plate, no change. Tried the neck loosening and re-tightening, no change. Raised the strings a bit and tweaked the truss rod to straighten the neck a bit and get the notes to buzz a little less, and that helped, but it still sounds a little dead.

 

Right now the nut is pretty badly screwed up because I tried to install an Earvana several years back. There's actually a gap between the bottom of the nut and the board as I tried to file the bottom freehand rather than using sandpaper on a radius'd surface. Also, the nut slots are a bit wide and cause some buzzing issues on the high E. I've got a new nut on order and I really hope this takes care of the issue.

 

I also plan to check those tuner screws to see what's up. If that cures it, awesome.

 

The guitar is turning me off to any tremolo guitar, even though lots of guys like them. Every trem guitar I've played to some extent loses a bit of that liveliness and energy that say a Tele has, just to a different extent.

 

Anyways, keep us posted as you're describing my exact problem and I would love to see if you can get it resolved! I'll let you know if a new nut helps out at all, although my gut says it will make most of its difference on the open strings. I'll also try floating the bridge tonight.

[BoneNut]

I'm also curious to learn how Venusshore's Roadworn turns out after the setup. I hope everything works out for him and that he's very happy with it when he gets it back.

Ever since I started playing, I wanted a Stratocaster. After all, there had to be some reason why so many players used one. I went through several, even trying the Rosewood board ones (which I consider a travesty ) but never found one I was really happy with. Finally, I decided to assemble myself from parts, mostly Callaham hardware with Fender neck and body.

I don't know if it was the sum of all the parts, how I learned to set it up during the build process or simply pride of ownership but it turned out great. Without a doubt, the best Strat I've ever played. Hard pressed for the truth though, I'd say learning how to set it up made the biggest difference.

[Jarick]

Part of me really wonders how much of it is the neck connection or shimming. I'm flipping through some videos now about it on Youtube. I think my neck does need to be shimmed as the string height is fine at the nut, then increases all the way to about the 12th fret, and then dips again. Obviously the truss rod is only the first 5-7 frets really so it's got to be a neck angle issue.

 

Another cool link I found on the subject:

 

http://www.premierguitar.com/magazine/issue/2008/Aug/10_Easy_Strat_Mods_to_Improve_Primary_Tone.aspx

 

My gut is telling me that set neck guitars have better sustain because they typically have a more precise neck angle and pocket from the factory, but a well built and set up bolt should be just as good sustain-wise.

 

Don't mean to hijack, but I figure if both of us crack away at the problem, we'll get somewhere!

[mrbrown49]

Jarick, shimming is only really useful if you run of adjustment room on the saddles.

 

What do you mean it dips again after the 12th fret? Like there is a hump in the neck there, it's not uncommon for that to happen just before the neck pocket? If so that will have to be leveled out.

[Jarick]

The string is close to the fret at the 1st and 21st frets but further away at the 12th. From what I can understand, raising the saddles will only increase those gaps more, while tightening the truss rod won't affect the 12th fret much. But by shimming the neck, you'd be able to tilt the neck slightly forward, allowing for less of a gap at the 12th fret and a bit more at the 21st. You'd loosen the truss rod slightly to give the first few frets a bit more clearance, and adjust the overall height/action at the saddle.

[mrbrown49]

 

The string is close to the fret at the 1st and 21st frets but further away at the 12th. From what I can understand, raising the saddles will only increase those gaps more, while tightening the truss rod won't affect the 12th fret much. But by shimming the neck, you'd be able to tilt the neck slightly forward, allowing for less of a gap at the 12th fret and a bit more at the 21st. You'd loosen the truss rod slightly to give the first few frets a bit more clearance, and adjust the overall height/action at the saddle.

 

 

In the end shimming won't have a different effect than just adjusting the saddles though. If you set the action the same, whether you've shimmed or not, you'll have the same rising effect at the end of the board.

 

From what you are saying it sounds like you have too much relief with the action lowered to compensate. That causes the end of the board to rise back towards the string plane.

 

Or...

 

Your fret board isn't level at the end of the board and it's actually rising up whether your neck is straight or not. It's pretty common for issues like that to develop around the body joint (for set necks) or the pocket (for bolt ons).

[Mr Songwriter]

I've got an American Standard Strat, at the time I bought it the sustain was not that great and the action wasn't very good either - I couldn't get it low enough for it to be comfortable without buzzing, so I tried all the usual recommendations you get on here...had a set up done - including a fret level - but it didn't make much difference to the sustain or the action, installed a callahan steel trem block, again very little discernbile difference...added an extra string tree for the G and the B string, yet again, not much difference.

I finally decided I was going to buy a new neck for it, so I went for a Musikraft Strat neck made with quarter-sawn maple and it gave me exactly the sort of improvement I was hoping for - quarter sawn necks are quite a bit stiffer than flat sawn ones, so the neck was much more resonant than the stock one (quite a big increase in sustain) and I was also able to set the action to a much more comfortable level. Well worth the money IMO.

[venusshore]

I'm very curious to hear how this plays out. I've got a Fender California Strat, very similar to yours, except with a more modern neck. I wanted to trick it out a bit but I'm worried about dumping too much money into it. My problem is a lot like yours, it's kind of dead sounding. Notes don't ring out, they just kind of plink and die. I picked up a couple trem screws and put all 5 in there and tightened it down, no change. Then I got a 1/2" thick block of wood and placed between the trem and body and loosened up the screws a bit until it locked in place, no change. Played with the 6-screw trem plate, no change. Tried the neck loosening and re-tightening, no change. Raised the strings a bit and tweaked the truss rod to straighten the neck a bit and get the notes to buzz a little less, and that helped, but it still sounds a little dead. Right now the nut is pretty badly screwed up because I tried to install an Earvana several years back. There's actually a gap between the bottom of the nut and the board as I tried to file the bottom freehand rather than using sandpaper on a radius'd surface. Also, the nut slots are a bit wide and cause some buzzing issues on the high E. I've got a new nut on order and I really hope this takes care of the issue. I also plan to check those tuner screws to see what's up. If that cures it, awesome. The guitar is turning me off to any tremolo guitar, even though lots of guys like them. Every trem guitar I've played to some extent loses a bit of that liveliness and energy that say a Tele has, just to a different extent. Anyways, keep us posted as you're describing my exact problem and I would love to see if you can get it resolved! I'll let you know if a new nut helps out at all, although my gut says it will make most of its difference on the open strings. I'll also try floating the bridge tonight.

 

I've got my guitar back now and the set up really helps on playing, better than the setup I've done myself.

Seems I need to learn how to setup in a good way!

HOWEVER, the notes still don't ring out, especially on the high E string.

 

Comparing to my deluxe, on high E string, sustain on the RW is about a second less than Deluxe (12th-17th fret).

On other string, sustain is not that bad, but still less than Deluxe.

 

For the neck, the technician said the shim won't help on this issue.

Now I have 5 springs on the back, the trem block is really tight to the body. still not help.

 

I don't have tuner screws on RW's.

 

Here is simple comparison...I recorded them using sm57. with TS808 on.

I didn't play in large volume, so the difference of 15th fret on B string is not obvious on image.

However, the Deluxe still have longer sustain.

I also didn't do any vibrato.

 

 

I will try brass trem block / saddles in the future.

[venusshore]

 

I've got an American Standard Strat, at the time I bought it the sustain was not that great and the action wasn't very good either - I couldn't get it low enough for it to be comfortable without buzzing, so I tried all the usual recommendations you get on here...had a set up done - including a fret level - but it didn't make much difference to the sustain or the action, installed a callahan steel trem block, again very little discernbile difference...added an extra string tree for the G and the B string, yet again, not much difference. I finally decided I was going to buy a new neck for it, so I went for a Musikraft Strat neck made with quarter-sawn maple and it gave me exactly the sort of improvement I was hoping for - quarter sawn necks are quite a bit stiffer than flat sawn ones, so the neck was much more resonant than the stock one (quite a big increase in sustain) and I was also able to set the action to a much more comfortable level. Well worth the money IMO.

 

 

Hmm...good idea... I think EJ strat using quarter-sawn maple?

I like the soft-v neck on this RW...part of reason I bought it.

However...my Deluxe is also maple neck as well....don't know why its has better sustain.

 

May try this later.

Thanks for the advice though.