Members A. Einstein Posted November 25, 2011 Members Share Posted November 25, 2011 well, just read that in Miles' autobiography somehow I got the feeling that Miles also hated anything with an uniform on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted November 25, 2011 Members Share Posted November 25, 2011 I'm not sure. It was always just a laugh between us. My dad's music, and the music he loved, didn't line up well with atonality, tone rows, etc. Composition by numbers that sounds like nonsense. I think I know what the prof, and you are getting at. Still, on the face of it, it seems like a preposterous statement. a professor can only hand to student what happen in the past, the future has to be created by the student, about the statement: "...told him he was too concerned with how his music sounds." that's a very good tip, because it only counts how the music is heard by the recipients, nobody cares how the composer hears his own music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockViolin Posted November 25, 2011 Members Share Posted November 25, 2011 I would hate to write music that sounds bad to me, because I thought it might please the recipients. It's impossible to know for sure how others will perceive. I seriously doubt if Mahler wrote for the recipients. Composer is always the first recipient, anyway. But yeah, my dad was born 100 years too late. His words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted November 25, 2011 Members Share Posted November 25, 2011 in the case where the composer is also the recipient (listener, end consumer), then either the music or the composer is schizoid, or in the worst case both of course did Mahler compose the Alps for the recipient, he had no other change supporting his higher lifestyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted November 25, 2011 Members Share Posted November 25, 2011 I would hate to write music that sounds bad to me that's not exactly what I meant, but when I get into something I foresee that there would be more musician on stage then paying persons in the audience, then I immediately stop working on that I idea, and postphone it to a later date when I have nothing else to do then making unwordly art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockViolin Posted November 25, 2011 Members Share Posted November 25, 2011 I didn't say the composer was the end consumer. Rather, that he is the first consumer. The composer has his own ears to listen with, no one else's. There's a balance, I think. Best not to be myopic. That's the best that I can take from the statement. Mahler paid a lot of his bills by conducting, btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted November 25, 2011 Members Share Posted November 25, 2011 Mahler paid a lot of his bills by conducting, btw. Yes, with trouser buttons.. His yearly salary was 26,000 Kronen at Vienna Hofoper. He married a higher daughter who paid his dept, and the couple couldn't afford that his wife travels with him on his conducting tours. 1907 was his career as conducter over,he went to NY, two years later his career was over in NY, because he was an impossible character and he went back home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 3shiftgtr Posted November 25, 2011 Members Share Posted November 25, 2011 The good thing about university musical education is there is a lot of great things being taught and some great musicianship and musicians can develop there. The bad thing is that often (not always) these programs breed nazi like academia. They put paramaters and concept around expression, creating labels and thus making it fit nicely into their well researched academic papers. The rhetoric of expression is secondary to the rhetoric of analysis and research. All of which must pass the utmost in peer scrutiny. And by accordance, anything outside of that which does not fit into advanced musical pedagogy, is deemed unvaluable. It'll make them crane their neck and look at you with pity....as though you don't even know the depth of your own stupidity. And the sad thing about it is that most university bred jazz programs do the same thing. All intellectual all the time. If someone expresses themselves with something other than the berklee approved b5 subs, they AREN'T PLAYING JAZZ..... Classical nazi's, jazz nazi's, blues nazi's, metal nazi's, Nazi nazi's.......they all suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted November 25, 2011 Members Share Posted November 25, 2011 nevertheless, all great composers and performers go thru this school, my teacher was beat on his fingers with a ruler by his father when he played a mistake, he became one of the greatest pianist of his time, that was around 1900. what is so difficult to go thru whatever school with discipline - learn the stuff which is the base of music - and then revolutionize the music according to your gusto? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rasputin1963 Posted November 25, 2011 Author Members Share Posted November 25, 2011 Mama mia, you studied music at a momosexual Christian KKK University? Every university in Texas is some variiant of a momosexual Christian KKK University. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted November 25, 2011 Members Share Posted November 25, 2011 Every university in Texas is some variiant of a momosexual Christian KKK University. but that University in Texas where Rayburn Wright teaches is great. I know this because I have their full teached music curriculim at home, and the Berklee curriculim as well, also great stuff every musician should know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rasputin1963 Posted November 25, 2011 Author Members Share Posted November 25, 2011 The good thing about university musical education is there is a lot of great things being taught and some great musicianship and musicians can develop there. The bad thing is that often (not always) these programs breed nazi like academia. They put paramaters and concept around expression, creating labels and thus making it fit nicely into their well researched academic papers. The rhetoric of expression is secondary to the rhetoric of analysis and research. All of which must pass the utmost in peer scrutiny. And by accordance, anything outside of that which does not fit into advanced musical pedagogy, is deemed unvaluable. It'll make them crane their neck and look at you with pity....as though you don't even know the depth of your own stupidity.And the sad thing about it is that most university bred jazz programs do the same thing. All intellectual all the time. If someone expresses themselves with something other than the berklee approved b5 subs, they AREN'T PLAYING JAZZ.....Classical nazi's, jazz nazi's, blues nazi's, metal nazi's, Nazi nazi's.......they all suck. Speaking of Berklee: When I was there, I had just spent time in UK getting down with their reggae/rocksteady/ska/black and white stuff. In the 80's, it was white-hot: groups liked The Police and The English Beat owed their whole shtick to reggae. When I attended Berklee I tried to get other players interested in reggae... I'm guessing anyone here knows its influenece has been incalculable. But at Berklee, They thought I was from Mars. They thought reggae was "gay" and waa-a-y beyond them. All they wanted to play was Poison or Led Zeppelin. At Berklee, there were only three social scenes: Contemporary Black gospel-influenced, the crawl-up-your-own-ass Bley/Brecker Progressive jazz set, and the headbanger Poison/Leppard/Zep set. If you weren't into those scenes, may the lord himself help you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 3shiftgtr Posted November 25, 2011 Members Share Posted November 25, 2011 nevertheless, all great composers and performers go thru this school, Not true. Many attend Cantorums and Conservatories for the specific focus of their study. Much different than the standardized American University and it's systems. Many too are self taught; Zappa as one example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rasputin1963 Posted November 25, 2011 Author Members Share Posted November 25, 2011 Was this while you were at Berkeley, Ras? No, this was at Trinity University, San Antonio. A place that the author John Updike referred to as "a finishing school for the white scions of Texas oil money". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted November 25, 2011 Members Share Posted November 25, 2011 oh, I see, well if you where into reggae, then smoking 10 joints everyday is more then enough musical edication, maybe a coco nut in between also doesn't hurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rasputin1963 Posted November 25, 2011 Author Members Share Posted November 25, 2011 but that University in Texas where Rayburn Wright teaches is great. I know this because I have their full teached music curriculim at home, and the Berklee curriculim as well, also great stuff every musician should know. You mean North Texas State at Denton? My little brother is an Anthropology prof there. yes, I have heard really good things about their Music program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted November 25, 2011 Members Share Posted November 25, 2011 Not true. Many attend Cantorums and Conservatories for the specific focus of their study. Much different than the standardized American University and it's systems. Many too are self taught; Zappa as one example. Some people can larn all on their own, but also Zappa analyzed possibly more scores of composers then I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted November 25, 2011 Members Share Posted November 25, 2011 You mean North Texas State at Denton? My little brother is an Anthropology prof there. yes, I have heard really good things about their Music program. yes, North Texas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rasputin1963 Posted November 25, 2011 Author Members Share Posted November 25, 2011 oh, I see, well if you where into reggae, then smoking 10 joints everyday is more then enough musical edication,maybe a coco nut in between also doesn't hurt Now Angelisssimo, you're being glib! You know as well as I do that the rhythmic characteristics of reggae are fascinating. (-; And I was only smoking one joint a day in those days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 3shiftgtr Posted November 25, 2011 Members Share Posted November 25, 2011 Speaking of Berklee: When I was there, I had just spent time in UK getting down with their reggae/rocksteady/ska/black and white stuff. In the 80's, it was white-hot: groups liked The Police and The English Beat owed their whole shtick to reggae. When I attended Berklee I tried to get other players interested in reggae... They thought I was from Mars. They thought reggae was "gay" and waa-a-y beyond them. All they wanted to play was Poison or Led Zeppelin. At Berklee, there were only three social scenes: Contemporary Black gospel-influenced, the crawl-up-your-own-ass Bley/Brecker Progressive jazz set, and the headbanger Poison/Leppard/Zep set. If you weren't into those scenes, may the lord himself help you. Nazi's are nazi's wherever you go! Never went there but have played with many alumni. It got it's rep in the 70's and hit stride as a respected 'jazz school' cuz of its crop of 70's students: Brecker, Stern, Scofield, Frizell and others.....But it is much different today.....from what I hear, it currently feels like a cross between a trade school and a university. Never met anyone that graduated from there that wasn't at least, a really good player. So they must be doing something right. Can't say as much for some other University programs that train kids to be band directors...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted November 25, 2011 Members Share Posted November 25, 2011 Now Angelisssimo, you're being glib! You know as well as I do that the rhythmic characteristics of reggae are fascinating. (-; And I was only smoking one joint a day in those days. according to my past experience with this cats, one joint is not enough to really dig into that jamaican stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted November 25, 2011 Members Share Posted November 25, 2011 I remember, when I was studying Music in University, we had rather strict-minded teachers. Our purview was strictly "white European male composers before 1900".Anything American, African-flavored, jazz-flavored or rock-flavored was definitely out, and if any of us chirped up about jazz in class, or admitted to liking rock, the teacher and the whole class would spin around to glare and frown at you, as though you'd just cut a big fart. Even 20th century composers were dismisssed with a roll of the eyes.Finally, one day I worked up the nerve to ask my Prof: "Just why do we never discuss Jazz ideas or Jazz harmonies or Afro-American musics in this class."He sort of sniffed, looked pained, and said, "The general feeling is that jazz music simply does not have the emotional range or serious intent as Classical music."HCSSS'ers, what do you think about this pronouncement? (Note that the class was simply called MUSIC HISTORY. It had no date or country delineations). This is interesting because just yesterday I was prepping the turkey and put on some jazz from the be-bop era. This was a CD with a bunch of live recordings and I`m listening to it and thinking to myself, "Why are these people clapping after every solo? All I hear is noise." Now, I`ve been listening to jazz since I was a senior in HS. I love Coltranes Love Supreme, Miles Davis Sketches of Spain, the Duke Ellington stuff... etc... but when it comes to be-bop... I just don`t get it and honestly, I don`t hear any emotion there! This is the thing, to me, music like any art form should express some sort of emotion and I`m sure be-bop does that for a lot of people but for me.... it just doesn`t cut. Its completely possible that your professor(s) just didn`t get it. My wife and kids don`t get any jazz. Thats why I put it on yesterday when no one was home (and to be completely honest, I shut it off after a couple of tunes because it did nothing for me). I guess what I`m getting at is we all find an emotional bond with certain music genres. For some its the repetitive of dance, for some its the unrestrained energy of be-bop, for others its the rawness of a punk band, for others the grandness of a symphony orchestra or the intimacy of a string quartet. Whatever the case, it all addresses an emotional need for all of us. So does jazz have a "limited emotional expressivity"? Yes, for some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rasputin1963 Posted November 25, 2011 Author Members Share Posted November 25, 2011 It's horrifying that this person even teaches. This is so obviously wrong I wouldn't even know where to begin, so my reaction is this: Ken, this was 1982. I don't know hold old you are, Ken... I am now 48. But in 1982, the ENORMOUS computer/internet/information superhiway paradigm shift hadn't happened yet, although there were some whispers that EVERYTHING was going to change very soon. In 1982, for example, we college kids still had to type out research papers on a TYPEWRITER, and adding your source footnotes to each page was an incredible headache. 1n 1982, different regions of the USA could still be VERY.....well, REGIONAL, and could be without any demurrals from any corners. Thank God that has changed, or is changing. The Westboro Clan, for example is one of those glaringly visible holdouts from the pre-Internet/Computer era. Nowadays, if a person is going to be stupid, it's gonna show, and others will quickly take note of it. But in 1982, a college psychology prof (Psychology!!!) could still tell his class that gays were going to hell, etc. Or, as in this case, Black (and Asian) music doesn't exist, etc. If you were raised in NYC or Los Angeles, you may be boggled at the backwardness of some American hinterlands regions.... stuff you wouldn't even believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted November 25, 2011 Members Share Posted November 25, 2011 Nazi's are nazi's wherever you go! hahaha I must assume you talk about this sort of music professors who repeat each semester what they lectured all semesters before, and otherwise lead a happy faimliy life, make some sports because they don't work enough at their job to be tired in the evening, and the best day of each month is the 25th, the day the salary is on the account Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rasputin1963 Posted November 25, 2011 Author Members Share Posted November 25, 2011 Nazi's are nazi's wherever you go! Never went there but have played with many alumni. It got it's rep in the 70's and hit stride as a respected 'jazz school' cuz of its crop of 70's students: Brecker, Stern, Scofield, Frizell and others.....But it is much different today.....from what I hear, it currently feels like a cross between a trade school and a university. Never met anyone that graduated from there that wasn't at least, a really good player. So they must be doing something right. Can't say as much for some other University programs that train kids to be band directors...... You got it, 3shiftgtr.... While I was there, my chops greatly improved. But I could see that learning Bebop was of limited use for the kids I knew of who just wanted to be Milli Vanilli's and Britney Spearses. The REAL usefulness of Berklee--- and, alas, I didn't avail myself of it at the time--- was to study MP&E, not Performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.