Members Elias Graves Posted May 9, 2011 Members Share Posted May 9, 2011 If you are looking for that harsh yet still muddy sound than there are probably plenty of good pickups out there for you. Most of the cheap import guitars do improve with a pickup change.As for what I think that you are really asking is the same thing I asked a while back. Why in the hell (or even better, how in the hell) do you make a bad pickup in today's world? Its not like any of these are really unique designs. For the most part their all derivative of the same humbucker, P90 or single coil. They all have the same basic components. You'd think that by now the difference between assembling a pickup on a machine, using wire, some plastic and a couple magnets in china and one in america wouldn't make that big a difference. But I've heard it and I've recorded it just to prove it to myself. It's almost like you would have to go out of your way to make a bad pickup today. But harsh and muddy is still out there. I've been doing a lot of pickup research lately and have found, I believe, some answers to these questions. First is the baseplate. Better pickups use nickel silver, as it is more "transparent." Brass baseplates found on many cheapos contribute to mud. Wire. While the better companies will use a 42 guage enamel coated wire for standard winds, some folks cheap out by using thinner wire and/or cheaper coatings. Thinner wire can lead to a loss of highs. This is why many overwound pickups can get muddy. Builders have to use thinner wire to fit the number of turns on the bobbin. Magnets. Can impact sound drastically. Even the shape can change things. Covers. Brass covers with a chrome plating will rob highs. Better pickups have a nickel cover. Again, more transparent. Brass covers can lead to muddines. So, like everything else, it's usually not one thing that the better makers do correctly, but a series of smaller things that have a cumulative effect. Brass base, brass cover, thin wire=mud city. That is probably not 100% true across the board, but you get the idea. EG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members photon9 Posted May 9, 2011 Members Share Posted May 9, 2011 I was going to say amp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PrawnHeed Posted May 9, 2011 Members Share Posted May 9, 2011 I don't think I've seen a bad pickup for years. In the 70s there were some really crap "humbuckers" that under the cover actually only had one coil. Even these somehow got popular for a while. These days they all work and whether you like them or not is purely a matter of taste and impedance matching with your amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members goosefartfan Posted May 9, 2011 Members Share Posted May 9, 2011 A while back someone on eBay was selling a Lollar pickup winder and his book on how to make one. He said that after building quite a few himself, to learn the secrets, he found out that the quality of the components made a big diff. Even the stupid plastic bobbins would affect the sound....I know it's hard to believe, but apparently quality components and design make a diff. This is from someone who was not selling any pu's, or trying to defend his choice of boutique pu's, so I believe him. On the other hand, if you can't hear the diff between one or the other, (and you're probably lucky that you can't, b/c you won't get sucked into these discussions) who cares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted May 9, 2011 Author Members Share Posted May 9, 2011 Oh I hear the difference between good pickups and bad ones. But they've been of the measurable kind. High quality pickups just have better performance than low end pickups, it seems, in terms of clarity of signal, noise levels, stuff like that. And when you have highly engineered designs like noiseless singles, it seems only some manufacturers have the technology down. When it comes to simple pickups (PAF, Strat, etc.) that are built well enough, though, and basically almost any aftermarket pickup nowadays qualifies as that, I don't really know what the differences are, and the differences seem to be in terms of EQ and output more than anything, and that's not good vs. bad, merely what you like vs. what you don't like. I've never come across a pickup and thought, ugh, this pickup sounds bad because it's poorly made. I thought it sounds bad because it had weak signal, too much noise, and wasn't EQ'd to my liking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twotimingpete Posted May 9, 2011 Members Share Posted May 9, 2011 what the {censored} is this? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170636115369&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_500wt_1156 old as {censored} duncan minihumbucker, could be cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BoneNut Posted May 10, 2011 Members Share Posted May 10, 2011 what the fuck is this? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170636115369&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_500wt_1156 old as fuck duncan minihumbucker, could be cool. Looks just like the new ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Guitar Heel Posted May 10, 2011 Members Share Posted May 10, 2011 Why in the hell (or even better, how in the hell) do you make a bad pickup in today's world? Its not like any of these are really unique designs. For the most part their all derivative of the same humbucker, P90 or single coil. They all have the same basic components. You'd think that by now the difference between assembling a pickup on a machine, using wire, some plastic and a couple magnets in china and one in america wouldn't make that big a difference. I've always wondered this, and have expressed this sentiment a few times. I just don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Guitar Heel Posted May 10, 2011 Members Share Posted May 10, 2011 I've been doing a lot of pickup research lately and have found, I believe, some answers to these questions. First is the baseplate. Better pickups use nickel silver, as it is more "transparent." Brass baseplates found on many cheapos contribute to mud. Wire. While the better companies will use a 42 guage enamel coated wire for standard winds, some folks cheap out by using thinner wire and/or cheaper coatings. Thinner wire can lead to a loss of highs. This is why many overwound pickups can get muddy. Builders have to use thinner wire to fit the number of turns on the bobbin. Magnets. Can impact sound drastically. Even the shape can change things. Covers. Brass covers with a chrome plating will rob highs. Better pickups have a nickel cover. Again, more transparent. Brass covers can lead to muddines. So, like everything else, it's usually not one thing that the better makers do correctly, but a series of smaller things that have a cumulative effect. Brass base, brass cover, thin wire=mud city. That is probably not 100% true across the board, but you get the idea. EG good info, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IbanezJon Posted May 10, 2011 Members Share Posted May 10, 2011 Made in Asia = worst. Cheap = bad. More expensive = good. Most expensive = best. Just joking. I once saw a video of someone using a cheap guitar with the speaker mounted to the body.. sounded really boxy and ratty like a toy and he used it on the album for a solo for that desired effect. Good pickup would be one which reaches that desired effect, whichever it would be in that moment. Like compression, tightness and clarity for high gain. Or sparkling top end or big bottom end for low gain or crunch. Whichever the moment calls for. It could be versaility which would be a comprimise and somewhere between all of them. Or maybe something that sounds really hi fi on clean channel. Good hands and knowledge for turning knobs seem to be able to make anything work though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IbanezJon Posted May 10, 2011 Members Share Posted May 10, 2011 When it comes to simple pickups (PAF, Strat, etc.) that are built well enough, though, and basically almost any aftermarket pickup nowadays qualifies as that, I don't really know what the differences are, and the differences seem to be in terms of EQ and output more than anything, and that's not good vs. bad, merely what you like vs. what you don't like. And output can be compensated for with the volume knob and EQ compensated with the amp or rack/pedal eq, but I guess the clarity under different situations like high gain, or different parts of the neck, or speed picking (the quickness of the response from the pickup) aren't as easy to compensate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ashasha Posted May 10, 2011 Members Share Posted May 10, 2011 Great info EG. I will say this about the design itself; there is some art to it, but there is also a lot of physics involved. I've had the pleasure of talking to Bill Lawrence on the phone a few times and I'm absolutely convinced that if you know what you are looking for in terms of tone, understand what properties will get you there that you can do the math and come up really close on paper. Then it's just a matter of probably fine tuning it in creation. Understanding all the electrical and magnetic functions in the design along with knowing what resonant frequency is best is probably a good starting point. I remember talking to him about the process of designing something and he started asking me things like the input impedance of my amp, my cable length, the capacitance per foot, etc and it was all stuff that I understand pretty well, but to be perfectly honest none of it was information I had on hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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