Members 144dB Posted January 27, 2012 Members Share Posted January 27, 2012 Hey all, I once considered myself a musician, and while I still like to play, I find myself drawn more toward engineering (recording/mixing/mastering). This is a hobby of course, as I earn a living in a different field. But I get a lot of joy out of recording other people's material and then producing a finished product that sounds good. But doing it in a home is full of compromises as we all know... The room is compromised, the speakers typically fall short, and you're not going to find a large format console or high-end mic pre's in many homes. And even with the plethora of plug-ins and gadgets we have today, it still all comes down to knowledge. All the gear in the world can't match what a pro does day in and day out. So I have a simple dream... I want to book time in a top-flight facility and just listen to music. I want to listen to material in a neutral environment, free of standing waves and acoustic compromises. I want to sit alongside a legend for a few hours and just ask some questions. This would no doubt be expensive (I have no idea what hourly charges are for Allen Sides, Bruce Swedien, Don Smith, Kevin Killen, etc.), but I have little doubt that it would boost my skills and knowledge (and the quality of my productions) far more than the latest gadget. It's not a replacement for school or years on the job, but for a hobbyist, I think it would still be an incredible experience. Any thoughts on how I could do something like this? Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators MrKnobs Posted January 27, 2012 Moderators Share Posted January 27, 2012 Hey all, I once considered myself a musician, and while I still like to play, I find myself drawn more toward engineering (recording/mixing/mastering). This is a hobby of course, as I earn a living in a different field. But I get a lot of joy out of recording other people's material and then producing a finished product that sounds good. But doing it in a home is full of compromises as we all know... The room is compromised, the speakers typically fall short, and you're not going to find a large format console or high-end mic pre's in many homes. And even with the plethora of plug-ins and gadgets we have today, it still all comes down to knowledge. All the gear in the world can't match what a pro does day in and day out. So I have a simple dream... I want to book time in a top-flight facility and just listen to music. I want to listen to material in a neutral environment, free of standing waves and acoustic compromises. I want to sit alongside a legend for a few hours and just ask some questions. This would no doubt be expensive (I have no idea what hourly charges are for Allen Sides, Bruce Swedien, Don Smith, Kevin Killen, etc.), but I have little doubt that it would boost my skills and knowledge (and the quality of my productions) far more than the latest gadget. It's not a replacement for school or years on the job, but for a hobbyist, I think it would still be an incredible experience. Any thoughts on how I could do something like this? Todd Sure. Call one or more mastering labs in your area, and tell them you'd like to hear some recorded material through their systems. Tell them they can pick an off peak time (calendar and / or hour). You can offer to pay, though the mastering labs here are happy to let you do that for a short period of time for free, hoping you'll use their services. Often, mastering labs have more than one engineer. If so, tell them the assistant will be ok, and he or she will probably cost you less. Here in Austin, the best mastering lab (IMO) is TerraNova Digital Audio. Jerry the senior engineer will cost you probably $100 for an hour, though I doubt he'd charge you for the first hour. His assistant (flavor of the month) would be less. I'm sure you have a similar lab near you. Keep in mind that you aren't asking them to master anything, so they're not having to work at all other than BS with you. It's a very attainable dream. Terry D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators MrKnobs Posted January 27, 2012 Moderators Share Posted January 27, 2012 Now, I should add that all these legendary guys have to make a living like anyone else. So, for instance if Mr. Swedien is your dream, then check out his master classes at his website, or just contact him and tell him what you want to do. http://www.inthestudiowithbruceswedien.com/bruce-swedien-class.html Terry D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted January 27, 2012 Members Share Posted January 27, 2012 Many of the legends have written books, or had books ghost-written, made presentations at AES, done interviews, etc. and you'll probably get as much from that - if not more - than sitting in the same room, because your time will be limited. And, the "formal" presentations will have been edited, so there won't be "damn, I forgot to tell 144dB the most important thing of all!" just after you left. And you can get some pretty bitchin' answers to questions here As to Knobs' suggestions, he's 100% right. I've often advised the same thing in my books - go to a real studio to calibrate your ears! It was very beneficial for me to spend time in studios with $10,000 speakers so I could realize where my speakers fell short, but also, it was encouraging to know that they really weren't that horribly far off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Huh? Posted January 27, 2012 Members Share Posted January 27, 2012 ...........studios with $10,000 speakers so I could realize where my speakers fell short......... Okay.....well I reckon my speakers will continue to fall short for a very long time to come! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members roomjello Posted January 27, 2012 Members Share Posted January 27, 2012 http://www.mixwiththemasters.com/MIX_WITH_THE_MASTERS.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted January 27, 2012 Members Share Posted January 27, 2012 In my experience, most of the "great" engineers are really cool people who are only too happy to pass along their knowledge. This was true when I was starting out in the early 1980s, and even more true now that a lot of these guys are getting older and have retired or are close to retiring. They want to pay it forward. I was fortunate enough to be in on some sessions with some amazing people as an intern, and I think you're smart to realize that there's no substitute for that. Most of these guys have web pages and email addresses, so if you have a favorite engineer or producer, just look them up, write them an email and tell them what you'd like to do. You might be very pleasantly surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members russrags Posted January 27, 2012 Members Share Posted January 27, 2012 Hey 144dB Don't know if it counts or not, but I have worked with 3 of the 4 people you mentioned.I even have personally met Craig Anderton and Lee Flyer ... that probably counts as much as anything.OK I'm just trying to be funny now. Where are you at, what's up???I help people all over the world, I'm in Nashville. RussNashville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philbo Posted January 27, 2012 Members Share Posted January 27, 2012 Yeah, Russ is the real deal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John Bartus Posted January 28, 2012 Members Share Posted January 28, 2012 In my experience, most of the "great" engineers are really cool people who are only too happy to pass along their knowledge. This was true when I was starting out in the early 1980s, and even more true now that a lot of these guys are getting older and have retired or are close to retiring. They want to pay it forward. I was fortunate enough to be in on some sessions with some amazing people as an intern, and I think you're smart to realize that there's no substitute for that. Most of these guys have web pages and email addresses, so if you have a favorite engineer or producer, just look them up, write them an email and tell them what you'd like to do. You might be very pleasantly surprised. Great... now when all our favorite producers and engineers become stalking victims, we know who to blame. A long long time ago, I had the pleasure and privilege of having Mr. Swedien as a guest in my studio. He had a house in the Keys back then, and he needed to audition some Michael Jackson mixes that were on DAT and FedEx'd to him here from LA. (I told you it was a long time ago.) He was a true gentleman and I learned a lot having him just sit at my console and listening for those two occasions. I was even able to give him one of my spare manuals for a piece of vintage outboard gear we both had. Lee is right -- most of the "legends" are really cool people who would like to pass along their information and stories to a new generation, especially those who may have only ever recorded onto a computer (!). It certainly is worth a try to approach some of the people who have inspired you. You never know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ronan Murphy Posted January 29, 2012 Members Share Posted January 29, 2012 I want to listen to material in a neutral environment, free of standing waves and acoustic compromises. I want to sit alongside a legend for a few hours and just ask some questions. Toughest part of your dream is that such rooms do not really exist. There are some pretty great sounding rooms around the world, but none come even close to perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted January 29, 2012 Moderators Share Posted January 29, 2012 Talking to engineer Ross Hogarth (VH's new one among lots of great music with producer John Fields and many others) at Slate Digital's booth was an awesome experience. Just hearing him discuss HPF on the "hair mult" on bass guitar and to have him reference how he set it up on the latest Van Halen... it sort of makes you weep a little. And Pensado's Place! http://www.pensadosplace.tv/ Hearing Dave Pensado talk at the AVID booth was great. But his "show" is awesome as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted January 29, 2012 Members Share Posted January 29, 2012 Talking to engineer Ross Hogarth (VH's new one among lots of great music with producer John Fields and many others) at Slate Digital's booth was an awesome experience. Just hearing him discuss HPF on the "hair mult" on bass guitar and to have him reference how he set it up on the latest Van Halen... it sort of makes you weep a little. And Pensado's Place! http://www.pensadosplace.tv/ Hearing Dave Pensado talk at the AVID booth was great. But his "show" is awesome as well. A lot of these guys are really passionate about recording and are only too happy to talk about it. And you were at the Avid booth for Dave Pensado? So were we! Oh well!! I didn't see any small kid with a drawn-on mustache, goatee, and glasses with a martini glass, but maybe you look different now. I liked the Tony Maserati talk at the Avid booth, but for me, I felt the Pensado talk was a colossal waste of time, which is how my friend felt as well (and we were surprised since we were really looking forward to Pensado's talk). I feel like he didn't talk about recording, the philosophy of recording, Pro Tools, or anything in-depth, and that the guy to his right kept talking about rather pedantic topics or pimping Pensado's TV show. Then, on top of that, I saw a couple of Pensado's videos, and I feel like there is too much frosting and not enough cake. Too much blabbing about nothing, not enough substance. I felt much like I did after watching him talk at Avid. Ronan Chris Murphy, who posts here, has a much superior set of videos on recording as well as a Home Recording Boot Camp, which I've also attended, and they are greatly superior to anything that Pensado's TV show does, in my opinion. If you want to see recording videos or learn about videos, Ronan's videos and HRBC do it extremely well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted January 29, 2012 Moderators Share Posted January 29, 2012 I can't believe you didn't recognize me?!?!? I was standing back at the mix/camera position. I figured you'd of at least recognized the martini glass... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted January 29, 2012 Members Share Posted January 29, 2012 Regrettably, no. But you didn't see anyone with a cathead in a flower? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 144dB Posted January 29, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 29, 2012 Hey all, Thanks for all of the replies. I live near Detroit, and there aren't many purpose-built studios in the area. You'll find many listings for recording studios, but out of that long list I've only seen maybe one or two that have a serious room or high-end speakers (you can tell from the photos in some cases). You can also tell because the room is seldom mentioned. The studio's gear list is emphasized much much more. But I did find a couple of listings that I might pursue. Or I may simply take a trip to an area that has a top-flight, purpose-built facility. I read as much as I can, and I've read Craig's books, F. Alton Everest's books, Bob Katz's book, and many books from Bobby Owsinski (I re-read the Mixing Engineer's Handbook about 3 times per year). And of course I read the magazines and do as much on-line research as I can. But I believe there is still a big difference in being there. I would absolutely love to sit in on a pro mixing session, but that takes the dream to another level. Without serious connections to the band or the engineer/producer, that isn't going to happen. But that would be a once-in-a-lifetime experience. That link to Pensado's Place is interesting. I'll have to watch some of those clips. I'm also going to order some DVD's from the Classic Albums series, which dissect classic albums and interview the people who made them. Usually they just solo the tracks and do a bit of impromptu level balancing, but it's still fascinating. And I'm pretty sure my fianc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted January 29, 2012 Members Share Posted January 29, 2012 I would absolutely love to sit in on a pro mixing session, but that takes the dream to another level. Without serious connections to the band or the engineer/producer, that isn't going to happen. But that would be a once-in-a-lifetime experience. I was luckily able to do this quite a few times because I played keyboard and guitar on someone's recording project who was recording at a couple of nice studios, including Track Records in North Hollywood and El Dorado in Hollywood. The experience is valuable and sometimes life-altering. That link to Pensado's Place is interesting. I'll have to watch some of those clips. Post what you think of it. Also check out Ronan Chris Murphy's recording videos and see what you think of those (my opinions are above). I'm also going to order some DVD's from the Classic Albums series, which dissect classic albums and interview the people who made them. Usually they just solo the tracks and do a bit of impromptu level balancing, but it's still fascinating. And I'm pretty sure my fianc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 144dB Posted January 29, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 29, 2012 Thanks Ken -- Will do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted January 29, 2012 Members Share Posted January 29, 2012 I should add that although recording in a top-notch facility is amazing and something I heartily recommend, you can really learn a lot if you can find a great, friendly engineer in a smaller facility. For example, I've recorded at Phil O'Keefe's recording studio quite a few times. It's a nice facility, but it's not one of these famous giant facilities that's been famous for decades. But I've nonetheless learned a lot by watching him, asking, and so forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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