Intonation - Low E can hardly be properly intonated

[Ancient Mariner]

I usually find I have to take the spring off the low E on strat trems to get acceptable intonation. Generally speaking, the lower the action the easier intonation becomes, and having less neck relief also seems to help (it moves the nut slightly further from the bridge).

 

If the trem is in the wrong place, and you just can't move the saddle back far enough then your best bet is to remove the trem, drill & plug the old screw holes, re-drill and relocate the trem backward a few mm.

[WRGKMC]

If you're maxing out your intonation, your action is majorly screwed up. Get a pro to look at it.

 

First off, measure your scale length from nut to 12th fret, then measure 12th fret to the string contact point of the 6th saddle.

It should be appox 1/8" longer than the nut to 12th. If its like 1/4" longer you got other issues.

 

They can be, bad strings, Flat Frets, Worn saddle, string height.

 

Bad strings usually cause flat intonation. Its rare for it to cause sharp intonation if everything else is set up right.

Heavy bottomk strings can cause more relief on the low side and thus sharpen intonation.

 

Flat frets is another. The center of the fret shopuld make string contact. If the frets are flat the edge makes contact forcing you to sharpen the intonation

to get it in.

 

Having too much relief or strings too high will also force you to make the string longer due to the string having to stretch more to make fret contact.

 

You should always measure your relief and string height before doing intonation. You can get a guitar so far wacked out that its impossible to intonate.

Remember, the neck is under tension. If you lengthen a string you also add more tension of the relief that raises the string. You may be adjusting to compensate for

relief and getting nowhere with a thin neck. If you make more than one turn longer on the lower strings, you may need to go back and tighten the truss to counterbalance

the string tension added by the longer string, then when you tighten the truss, you may need to incerase string height to keep the truss adjustment from lowering the strings.

[grumphh]

 

If you're maxing out your intonation, your action is majorly screwed up. Get a pro to look at it.

 

 

Sorry, but no.

 

Almost straight neck with just a tiny amount of relief (generally less than an .010 string) and medium high action.

 

And going by the number of people who answered that they too have experienced this, i am just not sure that all guitars are built correctly for the various aspects of peoples individual preferences...

 

Frets being slightly worn might be a better explanation - and certainly better than inferring that a bunch of us have no idea of how to set up a guitar.

[Ancient Mariner]

But he does have a sort of point, if you can ignore the silliness about action being screwed up. You mention you have a medium-high action: bringing that down to medium-low will reduce the amount of compensation required to intonate correctly, and that may be enough to bring it back into the range of adjustment.

[WRGKMC]

 

Sorry, but no. Almost straight neck with just a tiny amount of relief (generally less than an .010 string) and medium high action. And going by the number of people who answered that they too have experienced this, i am just not sure that all guitars are built correctly for the various aspects of peoples individual preferences... Frets being slightly worn might be a better explanation - and certainly better than inferring that a bunch of us have no idea of how to set up a guitar.

 

 

 

You only have three choices here -

1. The instruments out of specs,

2. You have a bad selection of strings for that instrument,

3. The problem hasnt be troubbleshot or corrected properly.

Take you choice as to which fits your problem because there no other possibilities.

 

If allot have the problem, then it simply means, allot of people cant determibe which of the three is the problem as well.

 

My choice is to choose the right strings for the instrument - spec it in for those strings - then adapt your playing to those strings and those specs.

If you try to work it the other way around and adjust the instrument to what feels good, you only have a small margin you can adjust things

to where it can no longer be speced in.

 

.010 is not a tiny amount or relief, its actually on the high end depending on the string gauge and guitar type.

It "can" be the cause of your problem and you dont realize it. Some dont realize how sensitive that adjustment can be.

.009 is a more normal relief setting. .001 doesnt seel like allot but it can have a huge impact on setup and feel playing.

 

Every guitar is unique though. With good level frets, If you do have worn frets, .010 may actually mean the fretboard is completely flat neck or backbowed.

The only way you know is to use the right tools to spec it out.

 

You can use a notched straight edge and see if the fretboard is level using a feeler gauges "on the fretboard", not the frets.

Next , If the frets arent level with the fretboard, you level and crown the frets so all frets are level with the Fretboard.

 

Then, with new strings "that intonate well", you adjust your relief, string height, and your intonation.

If you skip any of those steps, or try to compensate for something out of specs, you may never get it right.

 

You also cycle your Relief, Height and intonation adjustments till theres no longer any adjustments to be made.

While doing those adjustments, you also swap between using a meter and using harmonics to get the instrument in.

If you change string brand or want different action, you have to go through the whole adjustment proceedure again.

 

Lastly, Not all have good tool skills for specing a guitar in. Its something that can take many decades to become expert at.

So many think they can just use a meter to get a guitar into specs which is not how its done.

99% of the specing takes a highly developed ear and excelent string touch to get things really close,

ofthen more accurate then any meter made. You tune in tone, body resonance and playability at the same

time you bring in the intonation. A meter cant do all of that.

 

The other part is the instrument quality. I've seen plenty of cheap instruments you can spec in perfectly,

set it down and pick it up the next day and find the whole thing completely screwed up.

 

Wood moves with temp changes and tension and theres not alot you can do about it.

Some instruments can take a month of micro tweaks over several sets of strings till it settles down and stops changing.

Some are rock solid and never need adjustments. Still others will be a battel every day you own it.

Some necks drift daily and there isnt a dam thing you can do about it but sell the sucker and buy something better.

Its doesnt mean some instruments cant be specked and do fine for alot of stuff, it just makes them a super pain in

the ass and you shouldnt expect too much. Spec them and leave them alone.

[grumphh]

 

But he does have a sort of point, if you can ignore the silliness about action being screwed up. You mention you have a medium-high action: bringing that down to medium-low will reduce the amount of compensation required to intonate correctly, and that may be enough to bring it back into the range of adjustment.

 

I know that that would help - but as i have said before, it isn't way out high, so imo should be within the range of most guitars. The ones i have with respectively Steinberger FR and Edge trems have no intonation problems. And they are adjusted pretty much like the other guitars with regards to action.