Members Dash4814 Posted August 29, 2011 Members Share Posted August 29, 2011 I've got a Les Paul BFG with locking tuners. Recently I noticed that an open D chord sounded godawful -- in fact, anything with a fretted B and e string sounds terrible, including double-stops. Got that classic out-of-tune-somewhere sound my middle school band teacher used to call "Mr. Wobbles." So I check intonation. Off a bit, on the flat side, but not terribly so. I adjust saddles, check again, everything looks good, play a D chord and wawawawawawawawawa. So I play each component of the D chord with a chromatic tuner and each string is ridiculously close to pitch, within mere cents. Strum them all and it sounds terrible. Lubed the nut, lubed saddles, checked the tuner locks, everything is solid as a rock. So what the hell is happening? It's driving me nuts. I love this guitar and it makes me not want to play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Belva Posted August 29, 2011 Members Share Posted August 29, 2011 Is the neck loose? Are you checking intonation while it's in your hands ready to play? Or are you checking it with it on a stand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dash4814 Posted August 29, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 29, 2011 Is the neck loose? Are you checking intonation while it's in your hands ready to play? Or are you checking it with it on a stand? The neck is tight. I check intonation with the guitar in my lap in playing position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grumphh Posted August 29, 2011 Members Share Posted August 29, 2011 . Fat fingers? Too much workout? Or just tune the e and b by ear till it sounds right when fretted. Sometimes perfect tuning does not sound all pleasant (hence tempered tunings). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dash4814 Posted August 29, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 29, 2011 Fat fingers? Too much workout? Or just tune the e and b by ear till it sounds right when fretted. Sometimes perfect tuning does not sound all pleasant (hence tempered tunings). I'm a wuss and fret like a baby. My other guitars (including another LP) will attest to that. And I have done the "tune till it sounds okay" thing...and it then knocks the open strings out of tune. I guess I could sort of meet halfway with the B and e strings. Out of curiosity, does anybody else have a guitar with quirky tuning issues that you deal with/compensate for? This is the only one I have like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gas Hed Posted August 29, 2011 Members Share Posted August 29, 2011 Check you string height at the nut. I had similar issues with a Standard. It was really upsetting me for a while until I found a Luthier that took it upon himself to cut my nut lower. Solved the problem and taught me what a good set up really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lz4005 Posted August 29, 2011 Members Share Posted August 29, 2011 I I have done the "tune till it sounds okay" thing...and it then knocks the open strings out of tune. I guess I could sort of meet halfway with the B and e strings. Sounds like the nut is cut incorrectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dash4814 Posted August 29, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 29, 2011 Sounds like the nut is cut incorrectly. Possibly too high on the B and maybe e, yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Belva Posted August 29, 2011 Members Share Posted August 29, 2011 Has this guitar done this from day one or is this a recent issue? If it just started, how old are the strings? If it's been a while, put on a new set. If it's been happening all along, check your nut. With your finger on a string at the 3rd fret see how much gap there is between the 1st fret an the bottom of the string. Anything more than 3 or 4 business cards = too shallow of a slot. Do this with all strings and report back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lz4005 Posted August 29, 2011 Members Share Posted August 29, 2011 Possibly too high on the B and maybe e, yes? Yes. The slot could also be angled wrong, but that would probably give you a sitar-like sound on the open notes as well. The good news is that filing nut slots is something a good repair person can do in a few minutes. If that's all that's wrong with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Into Nation Posted August 29, 2011 Members Share Posted August 29, 2011 What is strange is that you say you play each string of the D chord and the tuner says it's okay, but the strummed chord is goofy. If it was a high nut, then tuning open strings correctly would make the D chord strings sharp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grumphh Posted August 29, 2011 Members Share Posted August 29, 2011 Out of curiosity, does anybody else have a guitar with quirky tuning issues that you deal with/compensate for? This is the only one I have like this. Well, most guitars that do not have compensated nuts are actually always slightly off.I can just say that especially the E string often is one where i do have to tune it by ear to get it to sit right - meaning a slight compromise in both open and fretted notes. But to me that is not quirky, but rather normal tuning behaviour across the board ( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted August 29, 2011 Members Share Posted August 29, 2011 What kind of strings are you using. The number one problem with setups occurs when someone changes string gauges or use a crappy manufacturer brand. I find particular string brands on my Paul sound great. Others sound like garbage. Whatever you choose, you have to set the instrument up for those strings and stay with them.the neck is 24.75" scale so the instrument has a much tighter tolerance on its setup. There can be NO + or - cents on a tuner if you want it to play well. You cant just trust a tuner 100% for a setup. Guitars are tempered instruments. You "have" to set them up sosome frets are a little sharp and some are a little flat The last thing you want to do is go jacking with the nut. Gibson sets them fire good specs designed to get goodoverall tuning. Gibsons ship with 10's I believe. This means you have to ease off on the truss a little if you go to 9'sIf you go to 11's or 12's you're going to have to tighten the truss. A Paul is set up for 5/64ths" between the 12th and bottom of the 6th string and 3/64ths" between the 12th fret and 1st string. I set mine for 4/64ths on the high E cause I bend alot of strings and like the clearence. You should use harmonic chimes to check your intonation as well as a tuner. If you have a Chromatic tuner, check the intonation at the very last fret in the upright sitting position, Chack and see iif the strings are sharp. If they are, you may have shortened the strings with intonation when you should have eased off on the truss. The truss is checked with a straight edge and feeler gauges at the 5~7th frets. On a bran new less Pail you will find the ideal relief is between .007~.009" Making the Wrong adjustment to correct a problem is very common mistake made by those who dont know how to setup an instrument. Relief issue makes it look like intonation is off is all you're staring at is a meter.It takes an educated mind in back of that meter knowing which of the three adjustments, saddles, height or reliefis needed to fix the problem. Lastly the key clue here is you went to locking tuners. Not having enough wraps on the tuning shafts will reduce the downward pressure on the nut and neck and thereforereduce the truss tension flatening out or even backbowing the neck. Strings are normally wrapped on a gibson headstock so the wraps mimick the breakaway angle of the headstock. If you use locking tuners and have little or no wraps and the nut has light pressure from the strings, then you have to really tweak the guitar to play right. My advice is get a pro to tweak it. You didnt identify the cause of your issue, and you're doing the wrong adjustments to fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dash4814 Posted August 29, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 29, 2011 Well, after a little tinkering... I think it's me. Apparently I was wrong earlier, and I have a ham-fisted, bludgeon-styled playing technique that is not conducive to Gibsons. When I eased up on my fretting, pushing the strings only until they were just fretted, it came out fine. I noticed i have a similar problem with the Les Paul Jr, but it seems more forgiving. My Fenders are also, apparently, more forgiving, perhaps due to fret sizes...? This must have developed recently, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grumphh Posted August 29, 2011 Members Share Posted August 29, 2011 playing technique that is not conducive to Gibsons. Get a Les Paul Custom with the flat wide frets - that should help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dash4814 Posted August 29, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 29, 2011 Good idea! Who's got one they'll trade me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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