What do you think a domestically produced $539 Fender would look like?

[Deadbeat Son]

Since Operation: {censored}storm has made it so blatantly obvious Gibson is doing it wrong, what do you think an equivalently priced Fender would look like?

 

Here are some points of reference:

 

The lowest priced Fender guitar has a MAP of $400, and, as is commonly known, is built in China.

 

The lowest priced domestically produced Fender is the American Special series and carries a MAP of $850.

 

 

What do you think they would produce in the US (not from bodies and necks made in Mexico and then shipped to the US for finishing) for a $539 price point? What accessories would it come with (gig bag, case, etc)?

[BB123]

Dear lord...enough already...

[honeyiscool]

Probably no accessories. I mean, honestly, it's not features or body shapes that determine manufacture price.

 

I think a $539 American fender could be something like a hardtail bridge humbucker Strat, and to be honest, I'm getting wood just thinking about it.

[BG76]

Honestly?

 

String through the body Esquier

 

multi-core poplar body

Top loading Strat non-trem bridge

humbucker

one volume control

maple neck

no case

 

I think that could be done.

[Tone Deaf]

Therein lies the rub. Fender doesn't have to produce a $539 guitar domestically. They choose to produce them abroad at that price point and still appoint the guitar with the "Fender" name. Gibson's business model is such that they won't (thus far) produce a guitar with the "Gibson" name anywhere but in the US. In order to do so, they have to cut corners to the point that the guitars they produce at that price point aren't so hot.

 

I hear forumites speculate that Gibson fans are paying only for the name. I would answer by saying that a majority of those buying the sub-$1000 Gibsons of questionable quality are perfectly willing to pay for the name. Those that are buying the $1500 and up Gibsons are paying for Gibson quality, and are getting it.

[Jkater]

Very interesting question and not at all a "parody" thread. It complements the other thread well. In the case of fender guitars, it's harder to convey the difference between a MIC and MIA guitar because construction types don't differ that much, at least in a discernable way on the internet (pics and descriptions).

[BG76]

^ Yeah, and the people buying the Chinese, Mexican and Indonesian Fender guitars are not buying for the name, right? It's not like those guitars (or the regular American Fenders) are all that hot.

[wagdog]

It would be a cigar box, with a broom stick handle and rubber band string.

 

And I'd want one, 'cause it would have great tone.

[DavidMgT]

 

^ Yeah, and the people buying the Chinese, Mexican and Indonesian Fender guitars are not buying for the name, right? It's not like those guitars (or the regular American Fenders) are all that hot.

 

 

Indeed.

[Deadbeat Son]

 

Very interesting question and not at all a "parody" thread. It complements the other thread well. In the case of fender guitars, it's harder to convey the difference between a MIC and MIA guitar because construction types don't differ that much, at least in a discernable way on the internet (pics and descriptions).

 

 

Thanks, this was not intended to be a parody. A MIM standard Strat or Tele has a multiple-piece body, a nice poly finish, and a standard level of appointments. It sells for $500. What concessions would have to be made to produce it domestically at a price point of only $40 additional?

 

I use Fender as a manufacturer because the are a direct competitor of Gibson and seem to be less controversial.

 

BG76 is on the right track and I appreciate the reply.

[honeyiscool]

Thanks, this was not intended to be a parody. A MIM standard Strat or Tele has a multiple-piece body, a nice poly finish, and a standard level of appointments. It sells for $500. What concessions would have to be made to produce it domestically at a price point of only $40 additional?

Zinc instead of steel tremolo, using multiple pieces of locally available timber like poplar, solid finishes to hide the ugly woods, that's about it, I'd imagine. If you look at an Affinity Strat, you can see that the basics of a Strat can be made for close to no money at all. The rest is in the details.

[xrleroyx]

I would pay $540 for a USA Fender. It'd probably be an Esquire, one pickup and a string through bridge. No knobs or electronics. Modders dream.

[DaleH]

I think the Chinese Fenders are going to kick ass. Make the Koreen light ash stuff they tried look pretty bad.

 

Be like the new epiphones state of the art manufacturing.

[thecornman]

For that price range I can get a great guitar that is made domestically for me! Made by people that do not work in poor conditions, use good quaility parts and don't cut corners! That company is Godin! For myself some of what you do pay for with Gibson and Fender is the name for sure! That is not to say they don't make great stuff, because they do! I love Strats and Teles! If people want to pay the prices they charge then they should and get all the pleasure in the world from them! I just think its silly when people always say that they are priced the way they are because they are made in a certain country and you can't get the same quaility for the same price anywhere else!

[DaleH]

Highway ones can be had for $699

[Beyer160]

A $539 US made Fender would have to cut so many corners that it'd get its clock cleaned by the CV Squiers.

[mymindsok]

QUOTE=Tone Deaf;44282907]Therein lies the rub. Fender doesn't have to produce a $539 guitar domestically. They choose to produce them abroad at that price point and still appoint the guitar with the "Fender" name. Gibson's business model is such that they won't (thus far) produce a guitar with the "Gibson" name anywhere but in the US. In order to do so, they have to cut corners to the point that the guitars they produce at that price point aren't so hot.

 

I hear forumites speculate that Gibson fans are paying only for the name. I would answer by saying that a majority of those buying the sub-$1000 Gibsons of questionable quality are perfectly willing to pay for the name. Those that are buying the $1500 and up Gibsons are paying for Gibson quality, and are getting it.

 

Lets be realistic. Gibson is also exporting what they claim to be 60% of their production. That tells me that "Gibson" and "Made in the USA" are still strong selling points in the rest of the world, no matter the cost or quality.

 

 

Zinc instead of steel tremolo, using multiple pieces of locally available timber like poplar, solid finishes to hide the ugly woods, that's about it, I'd imagine. If you look at an Affinity Strat, you can see that the basics of a Strat can be made for close to no money at all. The rest is in the details.

 

Yeah, if they refused to accept a somewhat lower profit margin going in, they'd do it that way for sure but they wouldn't have to.

 

OTOH, Fender could easily produce a decent, domestically produced guitar,at a reasonable price but we consumers have let them prove to themselves that we'll accept whatever they throw in front of us. And once again, most of Fenders guitars are sold outside of the US.

 

As far as I can tell, the same people who are verbally thrashing the Koreans are some of the same guys trying to tell us that their MI Strat is comparable to any US built instrument! Those of you who really believe that, need to visit some music stores and play some US built Fenders. Every so often, they build some nice guitars but unfortunately, they charge an arm and a leg for em.

[Deadbeat Son]

 

Highway ones can be had for $699

 

 

They're discontinued and didn't use 100% MIA parts. So what would have to be cut to shave $160 off the price and have the entire instrument MIA?

[photon9]

I think BG76 is on the right track in that it wouldn't likely have a trem. To domestically produce a Strat or Tele at the given price point, they would have to shave bucks wherever they can. Top loading bridge means less machine time on the CNC to cut the body. Plus, no springs, no block, no trem arm, etc .

 

Uhm... Teles don't have a trem.

 

Oddly enough they are priced the same as a comparable Strat.

 

So I guess you're in the Esquire Tele crowd.

[honeyiscool]

I really don't think it's trem or body design that make guitars expensive or inexpensive. It's human time. Given that, I don't think a trem or no trem makes much difference.

[Welladjusted]

As far as I can tell, the only corner Godin cuts is using Poplar on their cheapest models, but even those are well-built guitars. $500 still gets you a mahogany Exit 22, which is probably the best guitar at that price on the market.

[Deadbeat Son]

Uhm... Teles don't have a trem. Oddly enough they are priced the same as a comparable Strat. So I guess you're in the Esquire Tele crowd.

 

Although the Tele doesn't have a trem, it does have that large honking bridge plate and the body is drilled through to be strung from the rear. They probably don't cost the same to produce, but Fender has elected to price them the same.

 

I'm not in any camp. So many people were crapping on the least expensive domestically produced guitar on the market, I was just curious how they though a less controversial brand would do at the same price point, and what kind of features they expected at that price.

[Deadbeat Son]

 

I really don't think it's trem or body design that make guitars expensive or inexpensive. It's human time. Given that, I don't think a trem or no trem makes much difference.

 

 

Machine time does factor in to cost. It may not be much, but it does make a difference in overhead allocation.

[brianeharmonjr]

 

They're discontinued and didn't use 100% MIA parts.?

 

 

Highway One guitars are on the Fender website, in stores, and in the last price list. They discontinued some finish options after the American Specials came out, but they're not discontinued completely.

[Deadbeat Son]

Highway One guitars are on the Fender website, in stores, and in the last price list. They discontinued some finish options after the American Specials came out, but they're not discontinued completely.

 

The Tele is gone completely; it's not even on Fender's site. Strat shows available in black only. I read elsewhere that the whole line was discontinued in 2011 (ie recently), so maybe once the factory is out of black Strats, there will be no more H1.