Anybody have suggestions for sound blocking/absorption on a ceiling?

[UstadKhanAli]

Well, if you know how to tack up drywall and do construction, adding resilient channels is quite easy. Construction's not my thing, so this would a PITA to me.

 

I did do three roofs some time ago, so I sorta know how to do that. But no matter. NEVER again.

[roomjello]

 

Playing an electronic drum kit makes quite a bit of noise, in a quiet house. (So does playing an acoustic guitar.) It may not seem like much, but when trying to sleep, a little goes a long way. Actually, when we can't sleep for other reasons, we tend to blame whatever we can hear, no matter how quiet. As I said, start with the insulation. Even if you put up the drywall, you'll want the insulation between, and it's easy and not very expensive. Drywall would be my 2nd step. Or, do both at the same time to avoid having to figure out how to fasten the insulation in place. Hanging overhead drywall is a bit of a PITA, though.

 

Insulation doesn't stop sound from going through walls. It might tame reflections in a room but it doesn't serve the purpose you are saying it does here. Again this is a mix up between stopping sound traveling through walls and room treatment for the inside of a room.

Same with the old egg cartons; They can serve a purpose to treat a room but don't stop sound from leaving it.

The drywall will help, the insulation on its own will not. As Lee mentioned in the cavity between drywall it makes a large difference compared to an empty cavity, Many tests prove this, but please stop telling the op to put up insulation to solve this problem.

[Lee Knight]

Hah, people's idea of what's easy differ widely.

Well... if it doesn't have to be pretty, you can be done in an afternoon. Well, a day let's say.

[JeffLearman]

In case, like me, you didn't know what resiliant channels are:

 

http://jglacoustics.com/acoustics-rc_1.html

[JeffLearman]

After reading a bit about the resiliant channel, it looks like a good bet; it helps particularly well in the low frequencies (which abound in pedal thumps and whacks on a drum pad) -- frequencies where drywall screwed directly into joists/studs doesn't help all that much.

 

Roomjello, thanks for the corrections. I still contend that insulation helps, having done it. But I'm sure you're right that the right thing to plan to do is hang drywall from the ceiling.

 

If I were doing this and I were serious, I'd consider resiliant channel and 2 sheets of 1/2" drywall, possibly with "sheetblok" sandwiched between. My guess is it's just as cheap and more effective to sandwich remnant carpeting between the drywall sheets. The carpeting wouldn't need to fill the entire space; if you don't have enough, cut it in strips and use it where you'll screw in the drywall (through the first layer, into the resiliant channel).

 

In other words, glue strips of carpet to the first layer of drywall before hanging it. Glue it where you'll be screwing the drywall into the channels.

 

Then hang the second layer of drywall, the normal way -- just stagger the screws so you're not screwing into a screw from the first layer. Or hope for luck, which usually works pretty well.

 

One benefit to 1/2" drywall is that one person can move it around without too much difficulty. Also, it's half the trips, when carrying a load of it into a basement, since you can carry two sheets at once. I finished a basement, and a neighbor carpenter who helped suggested 24" centers and 1/2" drywall, rather than what I'd assumed (16" centers and 5/8" drywall). That saved a lot of work and a bit of coin, and the results were way good enough for a basement.

 

However I was doing walls only. The added stiffness of 5/8" might help when doing ceilings. I defer to anyone who's done it.

[Jimbroni]

Sorry man this is false information. Flanking noise, is significant. sound travels through structure like no ones business AND THROUGH WOOD FASTER THAN AIR.. And you are confusing absorption with stopping sound. Stopping sound travel between rooms requires mass that is air tight. 703 is for absorption to some degree and only at higher frequencies unless built into a trap of some sort. But that is not the same concept as stopping sound from traveling through a wall, absorption has to do with how the sound lives in the room it originated in. Blocking sound room to room requires mass and proper decoupling for a start. Just layers of drywall which is airtight will help but might not be the best approach for your dollar. At best a mass air mass system (double wall with layers of drywall on the outside layers and an air space and the cavity filled with insulation) preferably the 2 layers framed separately and at least only sharing a top and bottom plate. On the ceiling you are looking at more complicated stuff, hat track etc. Acoustic work requires study and time and lots of research, it is not intuitive, so don't waste a bunch on dough unless you are sure about the right way to do things.

 

 

As others pointed out cement has too much mass here. Unless we are talking low frequencies like a bass amp its a non factor. Alas we are not talking about that, which brings my second point. You guys are all going way overboard. You don't need all that for the sound levels he is talking about. And lastly I argue that a basement is not a place you would want to soundproof. Its insanely expensive to do what you are suggesting and completely overkill. Ceiling height is too small, and to do everything you are talking about is not really feasible to completely soundproof anyway. On top of that you will most definitely create new problems. Namely, since you have capped your room, you will now have some serious room modes to deal with especially if you were dealing with a bass. It doesn't work.

 

And BTW, I've built a couple studios at about 10-15k budget each and am an mechanical acoustic engineer albeit in the auto industry. Not some super expert and I don't claim to be. I think like an engineer and am looking at the best bang for the buck. And soundproofing is not it. I'm just saying don't blow a bunch of on this its not worth it cause you'll never get there anyway.

 

Even if he's with dealing loud volumes here, its not worth attempting to soundproof. It will be ridiculously expensive and will you cause you major headaches. I personally do not like drywalling the ceiling in basements with a band situation; too echoey, causes booms, requires more bass traps, and other treatments. Now if you have tall non flat ceilings we are talking a different scenario.

 

But in the case we are talking about here, if infragreen wanted to add drywall for asthetics its not gonna hurt. In fact, could give the room some life for the acoustic guitar.

 

Before providing solutions to people using conventional wisdom, you really need to ask what is it they are trying to accomplish and what is the input and environmental load.

So yeah just get insulation and ceiling tiles. Of course absorption doesn't stop sound just attenuates, and reduces room energy, but thats all he'll need. Just going by experience. And it'll will help keep those hardwood floors upstairs a little warmer in the winter.

 

Yeah flanking is important for the acoustic guitar, not structure wise but airborne. Not sure if infragreen has a door to block the upstairs from the downstairs or if the space is in a room. But if you can add a door or if you have one shut it. Either way the cheap lewan doors with solid wood filling at lowes or home depot actually don't work too bad. Finally acoustics is not rocket science its simple energy transfer at its core and quite intuitive thank you very much.

[Lee Knight]

Great post ^^^.

I will add though, that I attained very good isolation in my garage studio. The ceiling has 3 sheets of drywall, the original 1/2, resilient channel, then 5/8 then another 1/2. The walls are room with a room. Running monitor with sub, full drum kit, etc are not an issue for the bedrooms above. Mass + airspace. And seal it like it needs to be water tight. Spay cans of foam filler, caulk. Then divert your ventilation. It ain't rocket science but it does require a little understanding, a little $ (but not much), and some elbow grease.

But I agree, make sure that's what you really need, because it is no jaunt in the woods.

[Jimbroni]

Out of curiousity Lee, how tall are your ceilings, physical space do you have, did you have room mode issues and what kind of bass trapping did you employ in your design? Is the room alive or dead? Some of it is a matter of taste, too. For me, I prefer going for a great sounding room, lively but not boomy and ringy, over an acoustic test chamber. But some/alot do like a deader sound more controlled sound.

 

But your garage sounds cools as hell. For me the sealing and stuff is all the extras that start to nickel and dime you. When honestly for my experience the best isolation I got between the control room and live room, was a studio that had less sealing comparatively. But I had the physical space, 4 ft aisle between the two rooms. I did seal but not on the level your talking. Sure we caulked and spray foamed, put peel damper patches on the furnace ducts, etc. But I question how effective that is, the density of spray foam is not all that. I had drywall, with a layer of 3/4" hardwood panels on top (dude wanted wood walls), I can't say I blame him it sounded great in there once we tuned it with 703 panels.

[Jimbroni]

Regarding the fiberglass. It's been found that packing the cavity actually lowers your sound transmission loss. Some is good. But pack it, or even lightly fill it, and you are "shorting out" to a degree your isolation. Sealed air is the best. The pink stuff on;y kills the resonance inside and isn't really effective as a sound barrier. Once you fill the cavity, you're creating a path from the diaphragm of the rock, to the joists to the sub floor. The solution is to fill halfway and leave air.

 

 

This is an interesting point and true. What happens is the more dissimilar the layers the bigger the impedance to energy transfer., So yes packing the fiberglass to hyper density is hurtful in this case cuz it gets closer drywall density. I pretty sure difference is very little though. Make sure its lofty and has some air space, in effect this creates a third layer of impedance.