Atomic Amplifiers + Axe FX = :-)

[LaXu]

The reason why the Atomic FR works so well is because it's essentially a PA speaker and tweeter. The tube amp part has little to do with this. You can even try running your favorite song thru it and it will sound very much like you'd expect a PA speaker to sound instead of the limited frequency range you get with a guitar speaker.

 

But the real kicker is that thanks to the full range speakers you can now use your amp modeler's cab simulation. On Axe-Fx this makes a huge difference in versatility. Before I got the Atomic FR combo I used my guitar tube amp's power amps and guitar speakers without cab sim and while the sound was good, I felt the amp models sounded much more similar than they do thru the Atomic FR with cab sims.

 

The only reason why the Atomics are tube amps is that the designers knew how to build those well. The amps themselves are rather neutral sounding and probably more akin to hifi tube amps than guitar poweramps.

[dunning-kruger]

 

. Before I got the Atomic FR combo I used my guitar tube amp's power amps and guitar speakers without cab sim and while the sound was good, I felt the amp models sounded much more similar than they do thru the Atomic FRt with cab sims .

 

 

so yeah ive notice that with alot of modelers.

 

Why is it that the Amp sim sounds more spot on in the amp its trying to emulate with cab sims.

 

Not only Cab sims but the specifically the designated cab for what ever amp model your using.

 

Like my black face amp models on my line 6 POD bean xt sound more like whats its trying to emulate when its used with the Black face cab sim. 2x12 or 1x12 cab sim models.

 

Or is it just me and my minds playing tricks on me?

[acefreely]

 

The reason why the Atomic FR works so well is because it's essentially a PA speaker and tweeter. The tube amp part has little to do with this. You can even try running your favorite song thru it and it will sound very much like you'd expect a PA speaker to sound instead of the limited frequency range you get with a guitar speaker. But the real kicker is that thanks to the full range speakers you can now use your amp modeler's cab simulation. On Axe-Fx this makes a huge difference in versatility. Before I got the Atomic FR combo I used my guitar tube amp's power amps and guitar speakers without cab sim and while the sound was good, I felt the amp models sounded much more similar than they do thru the Atomic FR with cab sims. The only reason why the Atomics are tube amps is that the designers knew how to build those well. The amps themselves are rather neutral sounding and probably more akin to hifi tube amps than guitar poweramps.

 

 

I've found some similar but cheaper than Atomics...looks like the Mackie Thumps are popular.

[RaVenCAD]

 

Well, all my amps are SS amps, so I'm no tube sniffer. The thing about the CC (and the JC) I don't like is how it seems to dissipate sound, rather than project it, and that's what I mean by it's not convincing, it just doesn't sound like it's hitting your face that hard. I attribute that to the cabinet design. I also am not a huge fan of how if I'm sitting in front of it, even with the chorus off, I hear two distinct sounds as it is a stereo amplifier, and I think that gives it a slight phasiness I can't get rid of. Of course, I can plug in a jumper in the back to mute one of the speakers, but then that's not entirely optimal either. Meanwhile, if I am playing the Bandit, it really hits hard, projects, yet fills space very well, with cleans as well as dirt. Mine didn't come with a Scorpion speaker, unfortunately, it came with a crappy off-brand speaker, but it still had these qualities right off the bat. Now that I have an Eminence Man O' War in it, I don't think anybody with ears could say the Classic Chorus sounds better. Don't get me wrong, I love the JC-120 and the CC 212 for cleans . However, I disagree with them being a good platform for pedals and modelers. They have a lot of their own character (bright!) and you never lose it when you plug other stuff in. Dirt pedals always sound like they're still coming through the JC/CC circuit, never like they are coming through a generic amp. I only know about the quality of wiring because I opened both of them up to clean the scratchy pots. The CC is very well wired and made, certainly better than anything under $800 today, it's just not quite on the same level as the older Bandit 65, IMO.

 

 

Today I'm primarily a clean player, but back in the day... I was a lot like my little avatar dude, and I used my CC212 for metal all the time. The slight phase you describe is pretty typical of a true stereo amp. Some people dig it, some people don't. I fall into the group that does dig it. YMMV..

[LaXu]

 

so yeah ive notice that with alot of modelers. Why is it that the Amp sim sounds more spot on in the amp its trying to emulate with cab sims. Not only Cab sims but the specifically the designated cab for what ever amp model your using. Like my black face amp models on my line 6 POD bean xt sound more like whats its trying to emulate when its used with the Black face cab sim. 2x12 or 1x12 cab sim models. Or is it just me and my minds playing tricks on me?

 

 

I think it's more that you're used to that particular combination being equal to what you think that amp should sound like.

[acefreely]

I think I figured out why my PA doesn't sound as good. Looks like it's makes everything that's plugged into it come out through both speakers. It's got stereo inputs but no matter how I set it up it doesn't output in stereo. It's a Phonic Powerpod 620...cheap amp...the speakers are probably FRFR though, so I should probably just get a regular 2 channel/2 input amp and try it that way.

[honeyiscool]

Your PA doesn't sound as good because it's a Phonic, that's all, period. My QSC K10s sound amazing with modelers, but they cost me $1500.

[acefreely]

 

Your PA doesn't sound as good because it's a Phonic, that's all, period. My QSC K10s sound amazing with modelers, but they cost me $1500.

 

 

I'm sure you're right :-)

[Mo' Cowbell]

 

No, they sound so good because you aren't sending a preamp into another preamp. When you send the output of a POD into the guitar input of a guitar amp, it's like applying a phaser to your flanger. It MIGHT come out cool, but it's probably going to sound like crap. Never, ever run a POD into the input. That's why most people say they suck. Ignorance of the tool ruins it for a lot of people.

 

 

x 1000. This is sig worthy information. It should be printed on every POD box in bold letters, underlined, flashing lights, flames, the whole nine yards. How many times I've read POD reivews that say "it sounded great through my PC. When I plugged it into my amp it sounded like crap". Then, the poor sap returns it without even knowing what he did. On the plus side, it makes it much easier to buy PODs for cheap on e-Bay.

[Ben Randolph]

Hey all,

 

Long time lurker here. This thread is very interesting because I'm an Axe-FX Ultra user. I've owned both the Tech 21 Power Engine and the Atomic powered cab so I've played through both. The Power Engine is very good for what it does. It's a great value for the price. However, when I got the Atomic Reactor powered cab it was like night/day. It was like a blanket had been taken off my tone. Both myself and my guitar teacher agreed.

 

One thing that I noticed with the Reactor is that the Cab/Mic sims become much more differentiated. You can really hear the tonal characteristics of each mic and cab model MUCH better through the Atomic. The Power Engine is not technically FRFR whereas the Atomic is. I think therein lies the big difference.

 

I also noticed how much louder Atomic sounded vs. the Power Engine. For the record I was comparing the Atomic powered cab vs. the 4*10 Power Engine, so where I had to really crank the Power Engine, I just had to nudge the Atomic to get to the same loudness. To me the Atomic sounded much fuller and richer. Nuances I didn't know where there suddenly came to life. By comparison the Power Engine sounded boxy to me.

 

I sold the Power Engine and now run 2 Atomic powered FRFR cabs and am happy as a lark ;-)

 

This is purely non-scientific. I didn't measure waveforms or anything. It's purely subjective. I don't own stock in either company (hypothetically if they offered stock ;-) and have no bias towards either other than my ears.

 

I think both products are fantastic quality-wise, but with the Atomic and the Axe-FX the FRFR difference became clear.

 

Oh, and addendum, I was originally going to buy an Atomic Reactor cab, then I had tooth crown fall out. Insurance refused to pay, as it was less than 5 years that the crown had been put in. So, I was stuck with the $1000 tooth bill with money that was slated for the amp fund, so I decided to save some cash by going with the Power Engine. I wound up selling the Power Engine at a loss and buying the Atomic. I would have been better served just putting the Atomic on a credit card in the first place. Ah, the foibles of gear acquisition can really hurt the wallet ;-)

 

Ben

[acefreely]

 

Hey all, Long time lurker here. This thread is very interesting because I'm an Axe-FX Ultra user. I've owned both the Tech 21 Power Engine and the Atomic powered cab so I've played through both. The Power Engine is very good for what it does. It's a great value for the price. However, when I got the Atomic Reactor powered cab it was like night/day. It was like a blanket had been taken off my tone. Both myself and my guitar teacher agreed. One thing that I noticed with the Reactor is that the Cab/Mic sims become much more differentiated. You can really hear the tonal characteristics of each mic and cab model MUCH better through the Atomic. The Power Engine is not technically FRFR whereas the Atomic is. I think therein lies the big difference. I also noticed how much louder Atomic sounded vs. the Power Engine. For the record I was comparing the Atomic powered cab vs. the 4*10 Power Engine, so where I had to really crank the Power Engine, I just had to nudge the Atomic to get to the same loudness. To me the Atomic sounded much fuller and richer. Nuances I didn't know where there suddenly came to life. By comparison the Power Engine sounded boxy to me. I sold the Power Engine and now run 2 Atomic powered FRFR cabs and am happy as a lark ;-) This is purely non-scientific. I didn't measure waveforms or anything. It's purely subjective. I don't own stock in either company (hypothetically if they offered stock ;-) and have no bias towards either other than my ears. I think both products are fantastic quality-wise, but with the Atomic and the Axe-FX the FRFR difference became clear. Oh, and addendum, I was originally going to buy an Atomic Reactor cab, then I had tooth crown fall out. Insurance refused to pay, as it was less than 5 years that the crown had been put in. So, I was stuck with the $1000 tooth bill with money that was slated for the amp fund, so I decided to save some cash by going with the Power Engine. I wound up selling the Power Engine at a loss and buying the Atomic. I would have been better served just putting the Atomic on a credit card in the first place. Ah, the foibles of gear acquisition can really hurt the wallet ;-) Ben

 

 

You're right about the Axe with the Atomics. Hearing it in person, I felt like I could live with that rig from here on out. I'm likely just going to save up for the Atomics. I've played my Pod through PAs many times and it's never sounded so good as it did with those Atomics.

[Radar-Love]

 

The Power Engine is very good for what it does. It's a great value for the price. However, when I got the Atomic Reactor powered cab it was like night/day. It was like a blanket had been taken off my tone. Both myself and my guitar teacher agreed... The Power Engine is not technically FRFR whereas the Atomic is. I think therein lies the big difference... For the record I was comparing the Atomic powered cab vs. the 4*10 Power Engine...

 

 

 

As far as I know, the 4x10 PowerEngine was for bass. I've never seen a 4x10 PowerEngine for guitar, just the 2x12 PowerEngine.

 

I'll agree that the Tech21 PowerEngine is not a true FR/FR (Full Range / Flat Response) sound radiator, as the speakers roll off much of the unusable high frequency range. Instead, the PowerEngine reproduces a generally flat and clean 40Hz ~ 8kHz.

 

Also, Tech21 quit using an Eminence speaker in the PowerEngine a few years back and began using a Celestion CT2112-8 loudspeaker.

 

 

 

 

[acefreely]

Just an update...

 

I was able to try out several FRFR powered speakers last night as well as the Power Engine 60. The QSC stuff was definitely tops, but expensive...the cheaper stuff, Behringer, Harbinger, etc was just OK. I really liked the Power Engine. It does color your sound a bit, but I'm not sure it's a bad thing for me...seemed to add a guitar combo amp-like sound and I was able to tweek my EQ and the on board EQ to compensate. Nothing I tried was as good for me as the Atomic powered wedges, which I feel are the best choice for what I want, but a little too much money for me at this time.

 

So for now I am going to get 2 Power Engines and run them stereo and see how I like it. The Atomics are probably in my future though...

 

Another note...I have been messing with my cheap PA and I've actually got it to sound good with my POD. Took a lot of EQing and experimentation with the various inputs, but it sounds pretty damn good now. Nothing I'd try to use live, but for messing around it's fine.

[Ben Randolph]

The 1X12 Power Engine is by far the most popular model. It looks like all Tech 21 offers now is the 1X12 Power Engine, so I guess the others were not successful in the marketplace.

 

This is the one I had, though it looks like it's been discontinued: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/tech-21-power-engine-pe-60-410-60w-4x10-powered-extension-speaker-cabinet

 

I don't think it was specifically marketed for bass, though 4X10 is more popular in the bass world than guitar. It says here it's an all-purpose extension cab. I know I sold it to a guitarist out in California who apparently already had a PE 4X10 and wanted to run them stereo. Maybe it was made with bass in mind, though.

 

Atomic will be releasing the new "Coincident Linear Reference" solution soon. I had a chance to hear the prototypes at the Fractal DFW meetup where the designer, Jay Mitchell, gave us a demo. They sound very, very nice.

[scott944]

 

If you want cheap tube power but have a really great valued piece of gear. Look into Peaveys old Classic line of power amps.

 

 

Yep. There were several tube power amps on the market back when everybody had to have a rack rig (even basement rockers, like me). Peavey, Mesa/Boogie (I had a 20/20), Marshall and Carvin (who still make one) all made 'em.