Members acefreely Posted February 23, 2012 Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 I went to my buddies house last night to check out his new Atomic Amp powered wedge speakers. http://www.atomicamps.com/products.htm He bought them to run his Axe FX through, stereo style. WOW, I must say it's the holy grail of modeling. The Atomic amps are able to add some of that tube warmth into the sound. I brought my POD HD Desktop along to see how it would sound. I know there is a lot of hate for PODs in general but I love it for recording and it sounds decent through a good PA. You have to realize the limitations of the product...it's meant to recreate the sound of a MIKED amp, not the amp itself. I ran the POD stereo style as well and played around with a variety of amp combinations...just amazing sound. My favorite rig on the POD is a JCM800 with a tube screamer, noisegate and EQ. I was able to get some just bad ass tone from those Atomic amps, real hair raising {censored} that you would expect from the "amp in the room" experience. Another thing that was really cool was the stereo part. Running one amp SIM through the left side and another through the right. Bottom line: I am saving up for a pair of my own and eventually the AXE FX. The two together are just an amazing amount of tone and versatility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members backtoblue Posted February 23, 2012 Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 Before you go spending $1700, I would suggest checking out Tech 21's Power Engines. They're made specifically for modelers and preamps and sound GREAT, for a fraction of what Atomics cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members acefreely Posted February 23, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 Before you go spending $1700, I would suggest checking out Tech 21's Power Engines. They're made specifically for modelers and preamps and sound GREAT, for a fraction of what Atomics cost. Thanks for that tip. I've never really been in the market as I've used my modelling gear for recording and occasionally through my PA and my amps/pedals for live stuff. I'm definitely interested in this stuff now...I had no idea it could sound so good live. Once I get some cash saved up I'll try those side by side with my buddies Atomics... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members backtoblue Posted February 23, 2012 Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 The Atomics probably DO sound better than the Power Engines (I've never played through an Atomic but I have had a Power Engine). Me personally, I couldn't justify spending $1700 for two of those wedges vs. about $650 for two Power Engine 60's. But, if you have the dough, by all means Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members acefreely Posted February 23, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 The Atomics probably DO sound better than the Power Engines (I've never played through an Atomic but I have had a Power Engine). Me personally, I couldn't justify spending $1700 for two of those wedges vs. about $650 for two Power Engine 60's. But, if you have the dough, by all means I hear that :-) I don't have the dough either...I'll just save up for a while. Just reading up on that Power 60, looks like it's a solid state amp...not sure how much better that would sound that my existing stereo PA system, which sounds good, just not as good as the real amp. I might try to trade one of my amps for one of those Tech 21s to test it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kit_strong Posted February 23, 2012 Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 The Atomics probably DO sound better than the Power Engines (I've never played through an Atomic but I have had a Power Engine). Me personally, I couldn't justify spending $1700 for two of those wedges vs. about $650 for two Power Engine 60's. But, if you have the dough, by all means And why spend $650 for a pair of Power Engines when a pair of Kustom powered wedges will run less than $300 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members acefreely Posted February 23, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 And why spend $650 for a pair of Power Engines when a pair of Kustom powered wedges will run less than $300 OK those are cheap enough that I can try out soon...somehow I don't think either will get me where I want to be in order to use modeling in a live situation. I have a nice PA that I can run through, that sounds good, but lacks that tube tone. I'm no electronics expert, but I think the reason the Atomics sound so good is because they are tube amplifiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RaVenCAD Posted February 23, 2012 Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 I can do the same thing with my Peavey Classic Chorus 212.. Just run stereo outs from the POD directly into the power amp of the Peavey.. I have an instant POD amp.. Simple and sweet, and the Peavey cost me $250. I've also ran a modeler direct to the PA and loved it. Not one single person came up to me and said "Dude, that guitar sound sucked since you were using a modeler!" Surprisingly (not), the audience is mostly oblivious to your gear and as long as it sounds good, and you play the parts correctly, they really don't care if it's a modeler or a 500lb stack. They will, however, comment on headstocks.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RaVenCAD Posted February 23, 2012 Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 OK those are cheap enough that I can try out soon...somehow I don't think either will get me where I want to be in order to use modeling in a live situation. I have a nice PA that I can run through, that sounds good, but lacks that tube tone.I'm no electronics expert, but I think the reason the Atomics sound so good is because they are tube amplifiers. No, they sound so good because you aren't sending a preamp into another preamp. When you send the output of a POD into the guitar input of a guitar amp, it's like applying a phaser to your flanger. It MIGHT come out cool, but it's probably going to sound like crap. Never, ever run a POD into the input. That's why most people say they suck. Ignorance of the tool ruins it for a lot of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members etawful Posted February 23, 2012 Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 No, they sound so good because you aren't sending a preamp into another preamp. When you send the output of a POD into the guitar input of a guitar amp, it's like applying a phaser to your flanger. It MIGHT come out cool, but it's probably going to sound like crap. Never, ever run a POD into the input. That's why most people say they suck. Ignorance of the tool ruins it for a lot of people. Bingo. Run it into the effects return and it will usually sound pretty decent (because you're going straight to the power amp and bypassing the pre-amp and tone stack). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cratz2 Posted February 23, 2012 Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 Yeah, I got the best results from my Tonelab by running it right into the FX Return of a Peavey Prowler which is a tube amp, but I think until the volume gets up pretty loud, the big reason it sounds so good is because it's bypassing the preamp, not because of the presence of tubes. I still have that Tonelab though I don't use it a lot. I also have a Vox AD60VTX which is basically the same thing in a combo amp version. I've thought about getting one of those Atomic 18W 1x12 combos. There's even one for sale on my local Craigslist, but I'm not really in a spending mode and probably wouldn't use it enough to justify it. Bet it would sound great though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members acefreely Posted February 23, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 Great tips guys! I have pretty much only used my POD for recording, which it's awesome for that. The POD sounds great through my PA, but nothing like it did through my buddies Atomics. Might just be my PA. I'll try some of these other suggestions...I am hoping something like the dual Kustoms or Tech 21s might give me the sound and stereo effect I am after. That'd save me a ton of coin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dunning-kruger Posted February 23, 2012 Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 If you want cheap tube power but have a really great valued piece of gear. Look into Peaveys old Classic line of power amps. They made 2 of them i think, a Classic 50 watt power amp, and a 120 watt classic power amp to run those old rack mount units. You can pretty much just plug in your POD HD500. Wich should work the same and give you that awesome tube warmth, glass, and dynamics. I run my POD xt bean trough my Kustom COupe 36s effects loop and it sounds awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cratz2 Posted February 23, 2012 Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 I, for one, really believe that a modeler sounds best through a guitar speaker. I think through a PA system, esp a really high quality example, lends a hi fi quality to the sound whereas running the same modeler into the FX return of an amp with a decent speaker still gives that raw, aggressive sound most of us expect from guitar amps. Having said that, I could get along with either one, esp if it means not schlepping a heavy amp around. It also depends on what kind of what kind of tones you are going for. I've long held that I can get a decent clean tone and a decent high gain tone out of almost every modeler I've ever used, but those more raw, edge of breakup AC15, Tweed Deluxe, cranked Blackface, 18W Marshall, JTMs, Super Lead type tones are the hardest to get through a modeler and I think a LOT of that has to do with the speaker breakup that is often an integral part to getting those tones really right... Not 'ballpark right', but 'I've played through those amps for years and this modeler does them very well' right. I think a jazz guy on a gig, esp with a bigger ensemble, can sound fantastic with a modeler through a PA. A high gain, Vai/Satch/Timmons liquid sustain kinda guy can also sound great through a modeler. If your main tone is a Tweed Deluxe, AC15 or 1974x turned up pretty loud and you've played through those amps for the past several years, I think you might be disappointed with most modelers, regardless of if it's through through a PA or a very high headroom type amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dunning-kruger Posted February 23, 2012 Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 I think a jazz guy on a gig, esp with a bigger ensemble, can sound fantastic with a modeler through a PA. A high gain, Vai/Satch/Timmons liquid sustain kinda guy can also sound great through a modeler. If your main tone is a Tweed Deluxe, AC15 or 1974x turned up pretty loud and you've played through those amps for the past several years, I think you might be disappointed with most modelers, regardless of if it's through through a PA or a very high headroom type amp. alot of good stuff here. VOX and JTM models on my POD XT bean are tricky to nail, but i can dial in the general mojo of the amps trough running it in trough the FX loop, especially on the JTM models and Voxac15. I have to say tough Tweed and Fender sounds are really hard to nail or even get at all, they sound good, get close but no cigar IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members acefreely Posted February 23, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 Just reading around...I've always been happy with my POD as a recording tool and my amps/cabs for live stuff. This is the first time I've really looked into this. Looks like what I need is a good FRFR powered speaker solution, similar to what people are using for their AXE FX. I've found several that look promising, might have to some options. If I can get 90-95% of the same tone as my amps then I'll probably be happy with that and be able to save a lot of gear hauling and cabling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted February 23, 2012 Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 I can do the same thing with my Peavey Classic Chorus 212.. Just run stereo outs from the POD directly into the power amp of the Peavey.. I have an instant POD amp.. Simple and sweet, and the Peavey cost me $250. I've also ran a modeler direct to the PA and loved it. Not one single person came up to me and said "Dude, that guitar sound sucked since you were using a modeler!" Surprisingly (not), the audience is mostly oblivious to your gear and as long as it sounds good, and you play the parts correctly, they really don't care if it's a modeler or a 500lb stack. They will, however, comment on headstocks.. You know, I like the Chorus 212 and all, and I mostly bought it based on your review, but I'm just gonna say... its tone is not convincing compared to my Bandit 65, even using the Power Amp input in the back. I really think that the cabinet design is to blame here. Thin 212 cabinets just don't do it for me. It has that anemic response that I remember from my old JC-120. Also, having looked inside, my Bandit just has greater quality of wiring as well. I bought the amp for my roommate and he likes it, but honestly, I'd take two Bandits 65s over a single Chorus any day. Scorpion speakers are great, though. I just think the cab is holding it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RaVenCAD Posted February 23, 2012 Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 You know, I like the Chorus 212 and all, and I mostly bought it based on your review, but I'm just gonna say... its tone is not convincing compared to my Bandit 65, even using the Power Amp input in the back. I really think that the cabinet design is to blame here. Thin 212 cabinets just don't do it for me. It has that anemic response that I remember from my old JC-120. Also, having looked inside, my Bandit just has greater quality of wiring as well. I bought the amp for my roommate and he likes it, but honestly, I'd take two Bandits 65s over a single Chorus any day. Scorpion speakers are great, though. I just think the cab is holding it back. Convincing? Of what? A tube amp? Ok, I'll buy that.. But I don't care. Tubes aren't the be all end all of guitar sound as far as I'm concerned. I'll take a nice SS amp all day long because I know the amp will sound the same regardless of the weather, phase of the moon or time of the month.. Tube amps, however, tend to vary based on a lot of different variables.. I like turning my amp on and knowing how it's going to sound, every single time. And I'm not a wire sniffer, so I couldn't tell you JACK about the quality of the wiring inside the amp. I just play it and enjoy the sound it makes, and I'm a huge fan of a JC-120, so that might explain why I've never had a problem with the CC212. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Radar-Love Posted February 23, 2012 Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 The Atomics probably DO sound better than the Power Engines (I've never played through an Atomic but I have had a Power Engine). Me personally, I couldn't justify spending $1700 for two of those wedges vs. about $650 for two Power Engine 60's. But, if you have the dough, by all means If they do sound better than a Tech21 Power Engine, it would likely be insignificant. The Power Engine series (there used to be a 100 watt version also) were designed over 15 years ago specifically for amplifying modeling gear. The speakers and amp of the Power engine were designed to NOT alter the tone of the modeler, just faithfully reproduce the tone at stage volume. Power Engines come in a convenient combo form factor with wheels that you can quickly roll onto stage and setup -- that's why plenty of pro players with modeling gear use them on tours. http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/powerengine/powerengine60.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members acefreely Posted February 23, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 If they do sound better than a Tech21 Power Engine, it would likely be insignificant. The Power Engine series (there used to be a 100 watt version also) were designed over 15 years ago specifically for amplifying modeling gear. The speakers and amp of the Power engine were designed to NOT alter the tone of the modeler, just faithfully reproduce the tone at stage volume. Power Engines come in a convenient combo form factor with wheels that you can quickly roll onto stage and setup -- that's why plenty of pro players with modeling gear use them on tours. http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/powerengine/powerengine60.html Thanks for the input. I am leaning towards those Tech 21 Power Engines to test out first. Two of the 60 watt models would be all I'd need to accomplish what I need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members backtoblue Posted February 23, 2012 Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 Regarding running thru an FX return, don't forget that a guitar amp's speakers and speakers found on the Power Engines, etc. are tuned differently. The modeling amps - much like PA's - are designed for full frequency response, whereas a typical guitar amp has a definite response curve. Something to keep in mind if you want to be able to create your patches and have them somewhat sound the same in different situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members acefreely Posted February 23, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 Regarding running thru an FX return, don't forget that a guitar amp's speakers and speakers found on the Power Engines, etc. are tuned differently. The modeling amps - much like PA's - are designed for full frequency response, whereas a typical guitar amp has a definite response curve. Something to keep in mind if you want to be able to create your patches and have them somewhat sound the same in different situations. Is that true for the Power Engines as well? I thought they were made for this sort of thing? Guess I need to look for a true FRFR powered speaker... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members etawful Posted February 23, 2012 Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 Is that true for the Power Engines as well? I thought they were made for this sort of thing?Guess I need to look for a true FRFR powered speaker... The Power Engine speaker is tuned identically to the speaker found in the Trademark 60. It's the same speaker. The PE60 is actually marketed as an extension cab. for the TM60. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Radar-Love Posted February 23, 2012 Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 Is that true for the Power Engines as well? I thought they were made for this sort of thing?Guess I need to look for a true FRFR powered speaker... The speakers used in Power Engines are neutral sounding as far as frequency response goes and are not designed to purposely break up when overdriven like "conventional" guitar speakers (e.g. -- the famous Marshall greenback speaker tone). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted February 23, 2012 Members Share Posted February 23, 2012 Convincing? Of what? A tube amp? Ok, I'll buy that.. But I don't care. Tubes aren't the be all end all of guitar sound as far as I'm concerned. I'll take a nice SS amp all day long because I know the amp will sound the same regardless of the weather, phase of the moon or time of the month.. Tube amps, however, tend to vary based on a lot of different variables.. I like turning my amp on and knowing how it's going to sound, every single time. And I'm not a wire sniffer, so I couldn't tell you JACK about the quality of the wiring inside the amp. I just play it and enjoy the sound it makes, and I'm a huge fan of a JC-120, so that might explain why I've never had a problem with the CC212.Well, all my amps are SS amps, so I'm no tube sniffer. The thing about the CC (and the JC) I don't like is how it seems to dissipate sound, rather than project it, and that's what I mean by it's not convincing, it just doesn't sound like it's hitting your face that hard. I attribute that to the cabinet design. I also am not a huge fan of how if I'm sitting in front of it, even with the chorus off, I hear two distinct sounds as it is a stereo amplifier, and I think that gives it a slight phasiness I can't get rid of. Of course, I can plug in a jumper in the back to mute one of the speakers, but then that's not entirely optimal either. Meanwhile, if I am playing the Bandit, it really hits hard, projects, yet fills space very well, with cleans as well as dirt. Mine didn't come with a Scorpion speaker, unfortunately, it came with a crappy off-brand speaker, but it still had these qualities right off the bat. Now that I have an Eminence Man O' War in it, I don't think anybody with ears could say the Classic Chorus sounds better. Don't get me wrong, I love the JC-120 and the CC 212 for cleans. However, I disagree with them being a good platform for pedals and modelers. They have a lot of their own character (bright!) and you never lose it when you plug other stuff in. Dirt pedals always sound like they're still coming through the JC/CC circuit, never like they are coming through a generic amp. I only know about the quality of wiring because I opened both of them up to clean the scratchy pots. The CC is very well wired and made, certainly better than anything under $800 today, it's just not quite on the same level as the older Bandit 65, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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