If you have $199 to spend, you NEED to get this. (Demo)

[RaVenCAD]

U mad bro?

 

Not at all.. I'd be typing much bigger posts if I were mad. Tick me off and I'll write a novel for ya

[JRicoC]

Well, saying the product is great as long as you're using an Apple device is quite the qualifier. All this means is that five years from now that product may not be supported on the OS. That probably would not be the case with a Windows-supported product ...

[RaVenCAD]

A fact I confirmed just last night, in fact

 

Wait, you mean there is a subject that Honey isn't the be-all-end-all-know-it-all-master of?

 

Love that Ratae quote in yer sig, btw

[warriorpoet]

Ooh! Ooh!

 

[honeyiscool]

Well, saying the product is great as long as you're using an Apple device is quite the qualifier. All this means is that five years from now that product may not be supported on the OS. That probably would not be the case with a Windows-supported product ...

While Apple does have a rep for not supporting products that they consider old, Apogee isn't Apple. The Duet's been around for ages and they still work fine on modern computers.

[nicholai]

Raven your penis is the size of a small flea, and i'm not talking about proportions, yes, I know they are the most endowed creatures in the world, your penis is just that small (can I have a novel please? I'm really bored).

 

On subject, thanks for the review Honey. I appreciate all points made and I think you guys covered it well, there are many options all with advantages and disadvantages. If it works for you, use it. A+. I doubt it's something we all need to buy, but that would be true of anything.

[bdegrande]

 

1) If he meant Android, then he should have said Android. Windows can run (insert program name) just as well as OSX can run (insert same program name). 2) The only people who assume Android would cripple anything are non-Android users. Those of us that have Android devices know differently. My Asus Transformer would do anything an iPad would do, if companies would just make a plug to fit the Transformer's port like they do the iPad's port.

 

 

1)In general, I agree, Windows will run pretty much anything well, with a minor quibble. Windows is a lot less efficient in terms of memory use than Unix-based systems like OS X or Linux, which is why trying to run Vista or Win 7 on a netbook was disastrous. If you are running a modern version of Windows with enough memory, no problems. If you are running an older version which limits you to 4GB of RAM, for example, there may be some issues running higher end software which would run better on OS X with the same memory.

 

2)No, simply no, and I have used Android from the very first version to a current tablet running Ice Cream Sandwich. There are simply all sorts of things that iOS does better, not only some very good niche applications, but a lot of musical apps as well, audio and video editing, Markdown, etc. Android is catching up in terms of software but it is a long way from being on par. Android has some advantages over iOS, and the hardware also has some advantages - SD card slot, HDMI out on some tablets, etc., but there are MANY things I can do more easily on my iPad.

 

I do agree that the original poster's comment was a cheap shot - and I am very interested in this mic.

[honeyiscool]

 

I've not tried that specifically, but ASIO4ALL supports multiple audio devices from different manufacturers and depending on your software (Reaper in my case) you can route in and out to your heart's desire. I've done it plenty of times with my MAYA44 and a external USB device.

Oh, ASIO4ALL, I remember using that at some point. How native is this whole process? But my question really is can you combine inputs and outputs together and use them in, say, Reaper at the same time? I'm not talking about routing, I'm talking about combining. I'm genuinely curious. I couldn't do this when I was recording in XP but I know XP is old now, and it's been an Apple feature for a while, now.

 

Even if you can route, the MiC is just a single channel device. It's not as useful as when you can sing into it and grab a direct input from your guitar at the same time.

[warriorpoet]

honey,

 

While I have some reservations about your platform enthusiasm, I enjoyed your review. As a Linux/Windows user, I cannot use this product, and wouldn't if I could simply because I have better sitting next to me. For what it is, it seems pretty cool. Thanks for sharing.

[RaVenCAD]

 

Oh, ASIO4ALL, I remember using that at some point. How native is this whole process? But my question really is can you combine inputs and outputs together and use them in, say, Reaper at the same time? I'm not talking about routing, I'm talking about combining. I'm genuinely curious. I couldn't do this when I was recording in XP but I know XP is old now, and it's been an Apple feature for a while, now. Even if you can route, the MiC is just a single channel device. It's not as useful as when you can sing into it and grab a direct input from your guitar at the same time.

 

 

I can sing into and get a direct guitar out of my POD X3.. Then I can take either of those outputs and assign it to a channel in Adobe Audition without any latency issues.

 

Probably not the same thing though.

[warriorpoet]

Oh, ASIO4ALL, I remember using that at some point. How native is this whole process? But my question really is can you combine inputs and outputs together and use them in, say, Reaper at the same time? I'm not talking about routing, I'm talking about combining. I'm genuinely curious. I couldn't do this when I was recording in XP but I know XP is old now, and it's been an Apple feature for a while, now. Even if you can route, the MiC is just a single channel device. It's not as useful as when you can sing into it and grab a direct input from your guitar at the same time.

You're describing an interface. Unless I'm missing something, this simply combines an interface with a mic and throws a proprietary plug on the end.

[honeyiscool]

http://jackaudio.org/jack_on_windows

 

This does seem interesting, although I'm not exactly sure what the extent of this is. But even if this is just as good, honestly, if it means you have to install a pair of non-native drivers to sort of do something that can be done natively in OS X, it only supports Apogee's position even further.

 

It does answer the question, but I think they could just as easily make one that works with Windows and Mac. You can't expect both systems to use the same drivers.

But driver writing in Mac takes less time and money than doing the same for Windows. This has nothing to do with which is better, it starts out with Mac only having a few hardware configurations to consider.

 

As long as Mac and their smaller market share are your target market, then sure. Ignoring Windows is a fine way to go. Why tap into that much larger user pool? Let someone else find a use for all that revenue..

Logic only runs on Apple, and it's still one of the most popular programs in the business. A lot of people in the field are on Apple, and look around dude, there is plenty of Apple only software and hardware in the industry, just like there are plenty of Windows only games out there.

[JRicoC]

 

While Apple does have a rep for not supporting products that they consider old, Apogee isn't Apple. The Duet's been around for ages and they still work fine on modern computers.

 

 

I don't doubt that Apple will support it with newer hardware and OSes; I think that's the major drawback. The older stuff will get left behind, and when that happens you'll have adevice that you can't use in Windows 7, 8, or Linux ...

[honeyiscool]

 

You're describing an interface. Unless I'm missing something, this simply combines an interface with a mic and throws a proprietary plug on the end.

 

In OS X, if you have a two-channel MBox, and you have an Apogee MiC, you can grab two channels of digital input from the MBox and the digital input from the Apogee MiC all at the same time, by creating an Aggregate Device, which to any program on your computer just appears as a standard interface but might consist of many different devices.

[xrleroyx]

I don't use windows anymore, and I spend quite a bit of time at work on them. I work IT and marketing, and I have had to deal with so many issues with windows that's it is simply baffling. Same when I used windows to record music,othing seemed to work,NAND I am very competent with computers, as that's what I do for a living. I use old apple products, because I can't afford to have the latest and greatest, and they all work PERFECTLY.

 

You have the same ability of choice using apple products as you do with windows products, all you have to do is know how.

[honeyiscool]

 

I don't doubt that Apple will support it with newer hardware and OSes; I think that's the major drawback. The older stuff will get left behind, and when that happens you'll have adevice that you can't use in Windows 7, 8, or Linux ...

That's a drawback and an advantage. I think backwards compatibility is something that is initially nice but becomes a lot of deadweight after a while. I understand its need, but I also understand its drawbacks. It is a different mindset than Microsoft, that's for sure, but with Windows 7, even Microsoft showed that it's willing to cut some of that deadweight out.

 

Regardless, I have a first generation iMac (candy colored) sitting in the living room that can run OS X 10.3, and as far as the Intel Macs go, I can't think of a single one that wouldn't be able to use the latest Apogee interfaces. You're exaggerating the problem a bit, but I understand your point.

[warriorpoet]

 

http://jackaudio.org/jack_on_windows This does seem interesting, although I'm not exactly sure what the extent of this is. But even if this is just as good, honestly, if it means you have to install a pair of non-native drivers to sort of do something that can be done natively in OS X, it only supports Apogee's position even further. But driver writing in Mac takes less time and money than doing the same for Windows. This has nothing to do with which is better, it starts out with Mac only having a few hardware configurations to consider. Logic only runs on Apple, and it's still one of the most popular programs in the business. A lot of people in the field are on Apple, and look around dude, there is plenty of Apple only software and hardware in the industry, just like there are plenty of Windows only games out there.

 

I used jack audio for years in Ubuntu. It gets the job done.

 

I don't know where you get the idea that having drivers outside the kernel is a bad thing, but it's wrong. Windows intentionally decouples drivers from its base kernel allowing companies to update their drivers more often and with less interference/ fuss from Microsoft. It's one of the reasons Windows is and has been such a fertile development platform.

 

That said, there are advantages to the way Apple does it, too. One of the biggest being 100% guaranteed compatibility. Unfortunately if you miss on that promise it can be a pretty long time until the next kernel update.

 

Apogee's "position" is that they only develop for one set of hardware. I'm not exactly sure why you feel the need to defend that; it's a dying industry standard that's been eroding like crazy since Apple switched to x86 processors and increased their user base. Good riddance.

 

Logic is so far down the line from ProTools; that's a bad example. A better example might be ProPresenter, but that was recently ported to Windows.

[warriorpoet]

 

In OS X, if you have a two-channel MBox, and you have an Apogee MiC, you can grab two channels of digital input from the MBox and the digital input from the Apogee MiC all at the same time, by creating an Aggregate Device, which to any program on your computer just appears as a standard interface but might consist of many different devices.

 

 

So it's an interface. I said that.

[honeyiscool]

 

honey, While I have some reservations about your platform enthusiasm, I enjoyed your review. As a Linux/Windows user, I cannot use this product, and wouldn't if I could simply because I have better sitting next to me. For what it is, it seems pretty cool. Thanks for sharing.

Linux has many great audio architectures available, and if it had the industry support that Apple has, it'd be a fine OS for recording, but unfortunately I need my Addictive Drums and my Guitar Rig and all those things.

 

It's Windows I have a problem with. I mean, the very fact that you need a third party, community supported project like Asio4All to even attempt to do a lot of things that Linux and Mac OS X has out of the gate is the kind of thing that made me switch in the first place. I have used Asio4All before, but I wasn't using it much because I always thought that just using the factory drivers for my, what was an Echo interface at the time, should be fine, since Echo is a well regarded company, so I figured their drivers were not written by tomatoes as so many Windows drivers are. Maybe I thought wrong and should have been using Asio4All the whole time. Also, USB devices generally worked fine on Windows, but Firewire was a different story altogether, and most of my devices were Firewire, it's probably contributed to a lot of my nightmare stories about recording on Windows, blue screens and all. Yeah, yeah, Firewire chipsets matter, but it's not like all Windows users have a choice on those things, sometimes you're stuck with what you have.

[warriorpoet]

...but with Windows 7, even Microsoft showed that it's willing to cut some of that deadweight out...

You missed by one release

 

Vista was the biggest deadweight-cutter, and then it was mostly because the device makers (nVidia and Creative in particular) refused to heed Microsoft's warning that drivers were a'changin'. There's another disadvantage to decoupled drivers: you're left at the mercy of third party developers for driver maintenance. Of course, you don't need to devote resources to that development either...

 

It's all a trade-off. I understand your Mac zealotry, but it's not a tenable position long-term. Frankly I don't think this line of argument has any purpose other than creating dissent and ill-will. There is no superior platform at the moment, and Apple has done very well to make it this close.

[warriorpoet]

 

Linux has many great audio architectures available, and if it had the industry support that Apple has, it'd be a fine OS for recording, but unfortunately I need my Addictive Drums and my Guitar Rig and all those things. It's Windows I have a problem with. I mean, the very fact that you need a third party, community supported project like Asio4All to even attempt to do a lot of things that Linux and Mac OS X has out of the gate is the kind of thing that made me switch in the first place. I have used Asio4All before, but I wasn't using it much because I always thought that just using the factory drivers for my, what was an Echo interface at the time, should be fine, since Echo is a well regarded company, so I figured their drivers were not written by tomatoes as so many Windows drivers are. Maybe I thought wrong and should have been using Asio4All the whole time. Also, USB devices generally worked fine on Windows, but Firewire was a different story altogether, and most of my devices were Firewire, it's probably contributed to a lot of my nightmare stories about recording on Windows, blue screens and all. Yeah, yeah, Firewire chipsets matter, but it's not like all Windows users have a choice on those things, sometimes you're stuck with what you have.

 

A regular old ASIO driver will do fine if you use the right hardware/ software. I've been using Presonus Studio and a simple mixer for the last year, and have had absolutely zero issues. In Windows your issues are 75% DAW, 20% interface and 5% user error. The best DAWs and interfaces reduce the last number to zero with any kind of competence.

[honeyiscool]

 

That said, there are advantages to the way Apple does it, too. One of the biggest being 100% guaranteed compatibility. Unfortunately if you miss on that promise it can be a pretty long time until the next kernel update. Apogee's "position" is that they only develop for one set of hardware. I'm not exactly sure why you feel the need to defend that; it's a dying industry standard that's been eroding like crazy since Apple switched to x86 processors and increased their user base. Good riddance.

Dying? I think it's coming back in a big way. Just refer to all the hardware and software that have been iPod/iPhone only, and if that's really the future of computing, and I think it is, I think proprietary is back. Developing for more than one set of hardware costs money to manufacturers because they need to provide drivers and support for each set of conditions their products might be used for, and if you already have a niche market like Apogee does, the added sales might not result in added profit. It makes business sense. And in the case of Apogee, they get mad love from Apple for being an Apple-only company, and they get a lot of visibility on the Apple Store, and this might actually offset a lot of that.

 

I don't find that Apple leaves things broken for a long time, they're quite prompt with their updates. The audio architecture in particular, which is really the thing I care about the most, has never been broken in the few years I've used it.

[kit_strong]

What's sad is this whole mess could have been avoided by simply omitting the one statement in parenthes. Yes, apogee makes fine products and they are apple only products. But, the way you phrased the one statement just came off as an unnecessary rip on windows. It may not have meant the way you meant it but its definitely how it came off.

 

As for the demo itself. Sounds great and it definitely looks like a great product at a very reasonable price.

[honeyiscool]

 

A regular old ASIO driver will do fine if you use the right hardware/ software. I've been using Presonus Studio and a simple mixer for the last year, and have had absolutely zero issues. In Windows your issues are 75% DAW, 20% interface and 5% user error. The best DAWs and interfaces reduce the last number to zero with any kind of competence.

 

 

Well, I would say that your issues are 30% system hardware, 30% interface, 30% DAW, 10% user error, but that's just me. If you have a poor Firewire chipset, you're boned no matter what. It all starts with the motherboard, and so many computers from manufacturers like HP just skimp the {censored} out of them.

 

Thanks to Apple taking the hardware and the audio architecture out of the picture, I find that on Mac, your issues are pretty much all the interface and sometimes the DAW. I think the very fact that GarageBand is so good (free) and that Logic is so affordable ($199) makes people realize that you can't sell a {censored}ty DAW on Mac OS X, so all the available options tend to be really good. So on Apple, it's really all the interface IMO, with maybe small bits of user error here and there.

[honeyiscool]

What's sad is this whole mess could have been avoided by simply omitting the one statement in parenthes. Yes, apogee makes fine products and they are apple only products. But, the way you phrased the one statement just came off as an unnecessary rip on windows. It may not have meant the way you meant it but its definitely how it came off. As for the demo itself. Sounds great and it definitely looks like a great product at a very reasonable price.

I can see your point, but you're very optimistic on that regard. An Apple only product is going to devolve into platform wars no matter what. And I wasn't necessarily ripping on Windows as much as pointing out that this device in particular would be crippled on Windows, and I've explained what I meant by that, since apparently that touched a nerve, even though the biggest issue is the Apogee MiC's limited feature set that relies on Mac OS X to do a lot of the heavy lifting. An MBox isn't crippled on Windows, where this device is.