WAY OT: Health Care Reform

[twosticks]

Sorry to bring this up, but have you ever had a feeling in your gut when something didn't sound or seem right??

 

It just seems odd to me that a president would work so hard to push something through the legislative branch.

 

Also rather than reworking or welcoming input from others, is more of this "Take it the way it is" attitude.

 

It just reminds me of the old "Look, you're getting a record deal, just sign it and don't worry about not having creative control"

 

Again, is just a gut feeling that things aren't matching up with THIS reform plan.

[irnbru83]

Well, seems like we are no longer going with the public health care route. I'm in favor of sharp change, but 100% government control on anything is bad. Take it from a Brit...

 

 

 

What annoys me about the current health care issue is the absolute lack of constructive debate taking place. Instead of seeking a win-win compromise (which let's face it, is probably achievable considering the current state of things), Democrats promise outrageous ideas and Republicans sit inside their little bubble and yell across the aisle.

 

Why can't either side be even remotely productive?

[boxofrocks]

I like the talk about non profit co-ops to compete, that should drive down costs a lot, and yeah the savings will go right into the economy. So I can see why they want to get it done so badly. Can see how important it could be in an economic recovery plan.

Could care less if there is a public option or not. I like the not for profit ideas.

Whatever they do, they need to READ the bill in whole before they pass it. I'd also like to know who wrote the damn thing, probably written by special interests, like Phillip Morris set up the tobacco FDA bill.

[agogobill]

Rest assured, everyone involved is looking out for us, no matter what. *

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* this post is dripping with sarcasm ... for those that may not "get it".

[slap happy drums]

Some things should just simply not be done for profit.

Healthcare and Sex to name a few.

 

The idea of Hospitals and Insurance companies working along the same guidelines of a normal business like McD's or the GAP has always seemed wrong to me. Call me a Socialist , but it's just wrong to make a profit on sickness and death.

 

 

Also why the hell aren't we just copying France?

If they've got the best healthcare in the world why don't we just copy their system?

 

 

If I was an American Tulip farmer , and the Dutch came up with a new way to grow Tulips that ended up being widely recognized as the best method in the world , and I was able to use this method should I choose , how friggen stupid would I have to be to not copy their methodology.....? Sure I could look for an even better way to do it , but again how stupid would I have to be to continue using a flawed method with the hopes that my R&D would eventually come up with something better.

 

I say copy France.......We could call it "Freedom Care"

[sleepykeith]

[D Carroll]

I have insurance, I make my own way in this world. I went to pick up some medicine, and was told "That will be $192." Now, I've worked in a pharmacy before, so, I know they can't do anything about it, so, I call my insurance compony, who then replies with "It says we saved you $42!"

[twosticks]

I keep hearing the same things too. Let's do it like the UK, France, Canada Etc....Problem is, we're not those countries. I think it's really great that those countries have their own health care system, but I think the US should look for a way that really works for the US, not just a copy of another country.

 

About ten years ago, I was really for gov't run healthcare, but now not so much. It just doesn't add up when you think about it. We can't afford it, nobody's read the bill or knows how it really works. In a country where it should be "of the people, by the people, for the people" it seems we never got a say in what we would like to see happen. It just reminds me of those memos you see at work that start "from now on, these rules will be in place".

[slap happy drums]

What is wrong w/ copying France?

 

Have we completely lost the ability to look beyond our borders for good ideas?

If we're ranked something like 37th and the French are sitting in the #1 spot , wouldn't it make sense to borrow from our Butter loving friends overseas?

 

If we were in the top 5 , sure lets figure out "our method" but we're not even in the running for the top 20.

Doesn't that just piss you off? Isn't it time to do something? The problem isn't getting any better , and it certainly isn't treading water , our current system is {censored}ed and getting {censored}ed'er.

But hey , at least we're better off than Slovenia

[Cross Eyed Mary]

It's simple. Give the free healthcare to us normal folk, rich {censored}s can still buy their pricey insurance that doesn't cover anything.

 

Problem solved.

 

"Oh no, we can't have the government running such a huge part of America!".

Do you think people freaked out like this when USPS was invented?

 

 

I'd rather at least give it a shot and see how it works, people are {censored}ing sick, after all. My wisdom teeth are growing in {censored}ed up, causing me pain, i have chest pains sometimes, when i {censored} it's like a broken soft serve machine. {censored}ing bring on the evil commie socialist satan loving healthcare.

[Longfuse]

...satan has firm stools...

[Targ]

Saudi Arabia has free health care, where does the royal family go for treatment?

 

America. I know, I worked on them. And they have ALL the money they need to go ANYWHERE they choose.

 

Canadians have free health care, where do they go when they need good health care? you guessed it, America. Why? cause when it comes right down to it, we do a better job and they know it. I have multiple references on the subject, I worked with a hands/plastic surgeon from Canada who picked up shop and came here. My father in law is Canadian with cancer. where do you think he went for treatment?

 

France, wow, what can we say about France... We have {censored} fits when our unemployment rate hits their norm.

 

We already have a Government health care system here, its called the V.A. wonderful place, you should visit. As a matter of fact, maybe we should ALL go there for some enlightenment.

Lets see now, what happens when we let the all knowing government runs things.

 

Social Security: an unlawful tax to take care of the elderly who didn't or couldn't save up for there own retirement. They (congress) used it as there personal piggy bank, stole the money and stuffed it with I.O.U.s that YOU have to pay back. Nice huh?

 

Medicare: going bankrupt as we speak. Forcing hospitals to take reimbursement of 25 cents to each dollar billed. thus, you guessed it, passing the bill back to you in the form of higher medical care.... just remember, you were already taxed to pay for medicare the first time around. Now you get to pay again...

 

Housing loans, Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae: "Lets make it easier for the people who don't make enough money to pay for a mortgage, to get one anyway" no credit, no problem. No income no problem. No down payment, "we" will make one for you... you may ask who is we? that would be me and you. All they needed to do was LEAN on the lending institutions and mandate they stop being so picky about who they lend to.

What happens when (pause for effect) they don't make their payment? "we" (me and you again) pick up the tab. Thank you Barny Frank and Chris Dodd.

 

By the way, Barney had another brilliant idea... He wants to take the TARP money we (the tax payers) had to pay for bailing out the financial crisis he partially helped create (see above), and instead of paying it back, he wants to make that money available for ... you guessed it, people who can't afford housing to get loans for housing... and the definition of insanity is?

 

What else did they master mind> ahh yes, cash for clunkers: but now there is another mess... the dealerships are saying that they were promised 10 days turnaround to get their money back on the deal, it's been three weeks, and only about 5% of them have been reimbursed with about 4 out of 5 being rejected do to paperwork and red tape errors...

 

Forgive me for not trusting these incompetent idiots with my health care. They have a VERY bad record. Could we do better? sure, I'm first in line. It has never been proven that adding a layer of government bureaucracy will make things cheaper, or better.

 

Someone mentioned the USPS, case in point it runs in the red every year to the tune of millions, competing with private mail servers... so why do we keep it? because the government can never give up control of something once it has it. Just like Amtrak, the tax payers get to subsidize a {censored} service that can't compete.

[twosticks]

 

It's simple. Give the free healthcare to us normal folk, rich {censored}s can still buy their pricey insurance that doesn't cover anything. Problem solved. "Oh no, we can't have the government running such a huge part of America!". Do you think people freaked out like this when USPS was invented? I'd rather at least give it a shot and see how it works, people are {censored}ing sick, after all. My wisdom teeth are growing in {censored}ed up, causing me pain, i have chest pains sometimes, when i {censored} it's like a broken soft serve machine. {censored}ing bring on the evil commie socialist satan loving healthcare.

 

 

okay, you have insurance on your car to pay for it when you hit somebody, If you own your own place and the well pump goes out, who should pay for that? THe engine goes out on your car, who should pay for that? I smoke like a frieght train and party like a rock star and now that I'm 40 I need cholestrol medicaction, a heart bybass surgery, and a smoking cession program, so is it okay to tax part of "Cross Eyed's" check to pay for my medicine or surgery?

 

Seriously If you are having chest pains, go to the ER now. The county hospitals have to see you and can't turn you away. I just do not see the need to overhaul the whole system and put it all under gov't control.

 

Yes I agree there needs to be things changed. I think most of this can be solved if you able the working poor to be able to have health insurance that don't have it now. The system now covers now those who can't or don't work. These are just my thoughts.

[fusionfunk]

Saudi Arabia has free health care, where does the royal family go for treatment? America. I know, I worked on them. And they have ALL the money they need to go ANYWHERE they choose. Canadians have free health care, where do they go when they need good health care? you guessed it, America. Why? cause when it comes right down to it, we do a better job and they know it. I have multiple references on the subject, I worked with a hands/plastic surgeon from Canada who picked up shop and came here. My father in law is Canadian with cancer. where do you think he went for treatment? France, wow, what can we say about France... We have {censored} fits when our unemployment rate hits their norm. We already have a Government health care system here, its called the V.A. wonderful place, you should visit. As a matter of fact, maybe we should ALL go there for some enlightenment. Lets see now, what happens when we let the all knowing government runs things. Social Security: an unlawful tax to take care of the elderly who didn't or couldn't save up for there own retirement. They (congress) used it as there personal piggy bank, stole the money and stuffed it with I.O.U.s that YOU have to pay back. Nice huh? Medicare: going bankrupt as we speak. Forcing hospitals to take reimbursement of 25 cents to each dollar billed. thus, you guessed it, passing the bill back to you in the form of higher medical care.... just remember, you were already taxed to pay for medicare the first time around. Now you get to pay again... Housing loans, Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae: "Lets make it easier for the people who don't make enough money to pay for a mortgage, to get one anyway" no credit, no problem. No income no problem. No down payment, "we" will make one for you... you may ask who is we? that would be me and you. All they needed to do was LEAN on the lending institutions and mandate they stop being so picky about who they lend to. What happens when (pause for effect) they don't make their payment? "we" (me and you again) pick up the tab. Thank you Barny Frank and Chris Dodd. By the way, Barney had another brilliant idea... He wants to take the TARP money we (the tax payers) had to pay for bailing out the financial crisis he partially helped create (see above), and instead of paying it back, he wants to make that money available for ... you guessed it, people who can't afford housing to get loans for housing... and the definition of insanity is? What else did they master mind> ahh yes, cash for clunkers: but now there is another mess... the dealerships are saying that they were promised 10 days turnaround to get their money back on the deal, it's been three weeks, and only about 5% of them have been reimbursed with about 4 out of 5 being rejected do to paperwork and red tape errors... Forgive me for not trusting these incompetent idiots with my health care. They have a VERY bad record. Could we do better? sure, I'm first in line. It has never been proven that adding a layer of government bureaucracy will make things cheaper, or better. Someone mentioned the USPS, case in point it runs in the red every year to the tune of millions, competing with private mail servers... so why do we keep it? because the government can never give up control of something once it has it. Just like Amtrak, the tax payers get to subsidize a {censored} service that can't compete.

 

I believe you hit the nail on the head, Targ. Well done!

[DaVinci]

Targ, you da man....laid it out simply and precisely....I'd suggest anyone who wants France's healthcare system to move to France but that's a bit extreme.

[boxofrocks]

Really getting right down to it, all that really needs done, is a few things...

Lower the cost by at least 50% I was paying 500 a month with a 5k deductible no eye or dental and that's the best I could get, my wife's was 800 a month so we used mine. So thats one thing that needs done ASAP..

Two, get rid of the pre existing condition crap, it's total BS and everyone knows it.

Three cover all procedures dictated by your physician not the insurance company.

Four, extend FMLA, and quicker access to disability insurance for when you do get sick, you're not stuck paying the whole premium of 1500 bucks a month while you can't work..

And finally, make that all available to everyone, not just those who are employed.

They can fix what we have already in place. Just retrofit it a little bit.

The way it's designed, if you get sick, you lose job, you lose insurance.

Or if you get sick, you have to pay 100% of the premiums, while you can't work because you're sick.. My premium was 1500 bucks a month. If I did come down sick, and couldn't work, insurance would be gone.

Yeah the system is screwed, but they can fix it without screwing it all up.

I still owe 700 bucks for an ER visit, and 2k for an MRI from 4 years ago, still paying on it. It's on my credit report. So if you're poor and no insurance, it automatically gives you bad credit, so now you can't buy a house or car, and can't even rent in some places, some jobs wont even hire you with bad credit. I can go on forever but I wont.

I can totally see why they want to get something done fast, it would help bring the economy back in a big way.

[JimmyNZ]

Wow, this has got some of you very animated.

 

I don't pretend to know much about your system, but I agree that you should do what's right for the US.

Sure, look at other systems around the world, nothing wrong in that, but ultimately it needs to be right for your country.

Fully funded government public health systems do have limitations.

[irnbru83]

Waiting lists for surgery are good fun.

[boxofrocks]

 

Wow, this has got some of you very animated. I don't pretend to know much about your system, but I agree that you should do what's right for the US. Sure, look at other systems around the world, nothing wrong in that, but ultimately it needs to be right for your country. Fully funded government public health systems do have limitations.

 

It's the talk of the nation right now. They'll change some stuff around, make it look pretty, and in the end, we will still get screwed somehow. Somethings will never change.

The price needs reduced, and restrictions and cap need to be set to protect people, that's all really. The common working man makes 10-12 an hour 40 hrs a week, in my state, 500 a month for insurance and the rest of the paycheck is food. That about sums it up for us working folks. We are getting squeezed to death. Stuck between a rock and a hard place. Two working parents and the budget is almost impossible anymore.

[cdawg]

listen, it's not so simple. it's not just one thing. example: indian hospitals have reduced costs dramatically by being sensible. they control waste. they control every bandage, every asprin, every sheet. simple inventory control=cost savings for all. the last time i was in a hospital, there were all of these things readily available to the public. theft has to be a problem, let alone regular abuse. so, take the simple things of running a hospital, and add that to everything above, and there you have it. a total overhaul. this is gonna take a while, folks. you gotta start somewhere...

[slickrick1688]

Targ pretty much said anything and everything i would have said. I honestly don't think the gov't needs to put their hands in yet another part of our lives. I think its unconstitutional what they are doing. The gov't' only job should be to run this country. Nothing more. And if you guys are worried about the financial aspect of this program, then you should be very scared. We are already in the {censored}ter with all the debt from medicare, social security, and the prescription drug program that bush signed into effect a couple years ago (this video explains the inescapable amount of debt we are facing in the next 10to 20 years:

). I also think that if there was universal healthcare, the unemployed (exempting those laid off of course) should not receive any benefits. Why should some crack whore with 5 kids get healthcare while i have to work 40 hours a week to get the same thing. Doesn't seem very fair to me...

[cdawg]

 

I also think that if there was universal healthcare, the unemployed (exempting those laid off of course) should not receive any benefits. Why should some crack whore with 5 kids get healthcare while i have to work 40 hours a week to get the same thing. Doesn't seem very fair to me...

 

 

semi-true, but overgeneralization.

 

there are a lot of innocents that have no care. {censored} them, too, rick?

[Longfuse]

 

Seriously If you are having chest pains, go to the ER now. The county hospitals have to see you and can't turn you away. I just do not see the need to overhaul the whole system and put it all under gov't control.

 

 

An estimated 16 000 US citizens die each year because they can't afford the medication/treatment to keep them alive. Surely that's reason enough to overhaul the system?

 

There's much that I admire about the US, but I don't think you realise how bad that statistic looks to the rest of the Western world. You're the wealthiest nation on earth, yet you're prepared to let people suffer/die like that? The attitude of, "Well, they didn't save enough or were too poor, so screw 'em" seems incongruous. It contradicts the good-natured image that Americans are known for. It also contradicts basic Christian values: and Jesus said unto the leper, "F*ck you, get a job!" I'm not religious, but such a cold attitude does seem at odds with your belief system(s). The American dream isn't achievable for all. If you could all be millionaires, your currency would devalue overnight. "Oh, so you're also a millionaire now? So, how much will it cost to get my garbage taken away?

[slickrick1688]

 

semi-true, but overgeneralization. there are a lot of innocents that have no care. {censored} them, too, rick?

 

 

Yeah. Get a job. At least try. I feel no remorse for the bums who have no job and don't try and get one. Most of the people that do want a job got laid off from one they had. As i said, don't include those laid off. If you haven't had a job in 2 or 3 years, that means you aren't trying.

[marko46]

I have to go with less government, is better government. I realize I'm one of the fortunate ones that have health insurance. There are parts of it that are BS, but I'm grateful for it. While I was in the emergency room yesterday I heard at least two people state that they had no insurance, but they got care. You can go to a DR. and set up a payment plan. I've done it before I had insurance. If the Government gets into the insurance business as far as I'm concerned, we will all be screwed one way or the other within 5 years. Right now it looks like everything is being looked at with rose colored glasses.

 

Name me one thing that the government runs "for us" that isn't {censored}ed up is some shape or form. They are politicians, NOT business/cooperate managers and have no business attempting to manage our health care system.