Members ryanstanley Posted August 20, 2006 Members Share Posted August 20, 2006 so im curious about your opinions on this do you think that its best to have lofty aspirations, and work hard to achieve them? or to just not worry about making it big, or "making a difference" in the music world, and play your music because if youre good enough fame will come? because it seems like there are a whole lot of people that give up and i really feel like anyone who really wants it enough and actually takes the initiative to do it can accomplish their goals in music. just seems like nobody actually tries.. there are just so damn many sloppy, bad sounding bands out there, who honestly think they'll make it one day by playing their bad blink182 ripoffs... and equally as many bands filled with people who think all you need is a lot of theory knowledge and solid experience, and dont worry about making magic with their music... seems to me, all you have to do is not be satisfied. if you write something, and the magic isnt happening, and I mean real, show-stopping magic, scrap it and keep going till you find it. then get your {censored} really, really solid, promote like hell, and put on a hell of a show. i mean i havent made it myself, of course, but it seems like if this is what you're doing then there'd be no stopping you. example: radiohead writes like 40 songs for an album and picks the best ten. obviously, its gonna be a hell of an album! so yeah. discuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Reverend179 Posted August 20, 2006 Members Share Posted August 20, 2006 Have fun doing what you're doing. If someone else likes it and something happens, then cool. Most of all you should be your own number one fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members syciprider Posted August 20, 2006 Members Share Posted August 20, 2006 You should apply this outlook on your entire like really. I like this quote. "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ryanstanley Posted August 20, 2006 Author Members Share Posted August 20, 2006 Originally posted by syciprider You should apply this outlook on your entire like really. I like this quote. "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. " thats a great quote right there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Apendecto Posted August 20, 2006 Members Share Posted August 20, 2006 I just look at it logically. I play becuase I like it and have fun. I also practice to become the best musician I can be. But the percentage of musicians who make a comfortable living and have a life are very, very slim. I could do it. I could move and forget about having a wife and kids and a college education. I could eat romen for a long time. But I just don't think the percentage of people who "make it" is worth me sacrificing all of this. Yo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members __tony__renaud Posted August 20, 2006 Members Share Posted August 20, 2006 This is a big topic - I have some random thoughts about it that I've gathered over time. - I've known several bands that did do all the legwork, practiced all the time, promoted themselves and worked really hard. Been in a few, myself. They should have "made it" by all counts, but never really broke out of the small locales they were in. Why? There is an element of luck to this whole thing. I've heard it referred to as the "success lottery", and I think it's a good title. -Achieveing fame and notoriety does not mean, in any way, that financial freedom and comfort follow. Far from it - read that famous Steve Albini piece that tells how it really is for a signed band - and believe it, because that's how it is. This racket is not like going to school, declaring a major, getting a degree in it, and working in your chosen field. It's too f'd up to ever be like that. There's more than a few world-famous bassists I've met and known who don't own their own home or even have health insurance, never mind any retirement. Fame isn't all it's cracked up to be, especially in the music biz. I'm not angry or jaded about this because I didn't get all the attention or recognition I felt I "deserved". I've turned down a few job offers from lower-tier name acts because I don't want to live the way some of the guys doing that sort of stuff do. Sure, Nathan East has it made, but many other names you see in magazines don't. I've seen this with my own eyes. -Far too many people are in this game for some sort of "fame". It's a hollow, shallow goal that will only come true for a fraction of a fraction of a percent of all those who throw their hat in the ring. This isn't a suggestion to not try and give your best, but becoming the next Flea, Claypool, Pete Wentz or whoever y'all idolize these days is a million to one shot. This is more true these days when the industry is only interested in youth-oriented acts. You have about 10 years to hustle, then you are no longer a viable, marketable product. Playing well is its own reward. It may not pay the bills for some, or get you on "Entertainment Tonight" but there is great satisfaction and pride in it if you stay humble and realistic about what may or may not happen in the future with it. Personally, I never "gave up", but I certainly did "get real". It's OK to dream big, but ya gotta temper it with reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Apendecto Posted August 20, 2006 Members Share Posted August 20, 2006 Originally posted by __tony__renaud Playing well is its own reward. It may not pay the bills for some, but there is great satisfaction and pride in it if you stay humble and realistic about what may or may not happen in the future with it. Yep. Yo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members s4001 Posted August 20, 2006 Members Share Posted August 20, 2006 It's luck. Plain and simple. No, you'll never make it if you never pick up an instrument, but once you do, it's being in the right place at the right time, or related to the right person. Took me almost 20 years of extreme effort before I found that out the hard way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members james on bass Posted August 20, 2006 Members Share Posted August 20, 2006 Originally posted by Apendecto I just look at it logically.I play becuase I like it and have fun. I also practice to become the best musician I can be. But the percentage of musicians who make a comfortable living and have a life are very, very slim.I could do it. I could move and forget about having a wife and kids and a college education. I could eat romen for a long time. But I just don't think the percentage of people who "make it" is worth me sacrificing all of this.Yo. Pretty much my thought process exactly around 1990 or so. Always knew I wanted a family, and wouldn't trade my 2 beautiful girls for all the fame in the world. Finished my education and got on with "life". Now I'm back playing music as a hobby and lovin' it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Apendecto Posted August 20, 2006 Members Share Posted August 20, 2006 Originally posted by james on bass Pretty much my thought process exactly around 1990 or so. Always knew I wanted a family, and wouldn't trade my 2 beautiful girls for all the fame in the world. Finished my education and got on with "life". Now I'm back playing music as a hobby and lovin' it! I'm in the same boat. I can't wait to have kids, but I know now isn't the best time. I hope to feel the same way (about not trading your kids for anything) someday. Yo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zebra Posted August 20, 2006 Members Share Posted August 20, 2006 Some people take it too seriously, I think. I sometimes hear about people getting so down about it that they just want to give it all up. Same with art too, sometimes I see people wo are so fed up with it they try to throw away all their work. I don't understand how people get to that point.I sure understand having music be important to your life, but I'm not gonna let any sort of frustration about it get me all fed up and throw it all out-- and if I don't "achieve" anything big with it, what's the big problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zachoff Posted August 20, 2006 Members Share Posted August 20, 2006 I think it's more of a life question than a music question... Go for your dreams or live with what ya got? One takes work, one is easy. A lot of times getting lucky plays a part but IMO there's more to luck than being at the right place at the right time unless you happen to win powerball or something. I'm kind of at a crossroads in my life with my recent divorce & have asked myself this very question. Am I happy with what I'm left with or do I want more? The latter is my answer, but I'm not sure what to do to attain it at this time. Work harder? Play with my kids more? Fix up my house? Get a new job? Yeah... Not sure what to do right now, but I'll figure it out. I've also come to the conclusion that my 80 or so years on this planet, where people have been around for at least 15,000 years is so insignificant that my chances of being remembered by anyone other than family in 100 years is slim to none. Kind of a pessimistic view, but it's one I've thougt about. As for those bands that "make it" - it's because they have something that a lot of other bands don't. They're not lucky, they're not talentless, and they're not hacks. They're good at making music that a lot of people want to hear (or music the record companies think a lot of people want to hear). In the grand scheme of things, The Sex Pistols will probably be remembered more fondly than a lot of the bands you adore. Most musicians have a hard time realizing their band is mediocre at best. I've played with some really good musicians, but I've never been in a "great" band or even a band that could "make it" - At the time I thought it was a possibility, but looking back it just wouldn't have happened. Damn, writing a novel. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ryanstanley Posted August 20, 2006 Author Members Share Posted August 20, 2006 well in my case, this is a lot less about fame, and a lot more about making a difference my goal as a musician is basically to make popular rock on the radio respectable again. whether fame, money or comfort comes with it or not, doesnt really matter to me really, one thing i could do would be to have four kids, teach them all instruments, and instill in them everything they need to change the music world forever, and then be their manager or something... kinda like the beach boys i guess (haha, not really)... but yeah thats all i want to do. contribute to the music community in some kind of significant way but yeah i see your points, and yeah obviously im still being realistic about it, right now im working in engineering and trying to further my career, and i still plan on getting a degree but at the same time, im working on my music career (a little bit harder, to be honest). im doing something about it all---as a vocalist, im not so great at lyrics, so ive taken up reading and im taking a poetry class. as a bassist, i dont know much theory, so im now taking a guitar 2 course. im not used to playing with my fingers, so im pretty much trying to do that all the time till i get used to it and can do both. i see no reason I can't continue to see my shortcomings and do something about them, and eventually be the musician i dream of being. and then, I'll put out an album with my band, and I'll tour, promote, blah blah blah... everything I need to do, and hopefully, I'll accomplish my goal and make a difference. and if not, I'll be drafting workprints. but at least ive sincerely done my best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Apendecto Posted August 20, 2006 Members Share Posted August 20, 2006 Originally posted by zachoff ... my 80 or so years on this planet... Damn dude. You're 80 years old? Yo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zachoff Posted August 20, 2006 Members Share Posted August 20, 2006 Originally posted by Apendecto Damn dude. You're 80 years old? Yo. I hope to be when I die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Apendecto Posted August 20, 2006 Members Share Posted August 20, 2006 Originally posted by zachoff I hope to be when I die. Whoops. Guess I should read better. Yo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DevilRaysFan Posted August 20, 2006 Members Share Posted August 20, 2006 Originally posted by ryanstanley well in my case, this is a lot less about fame, and a lot more about making a differencemy goal as a musician is basically to make popular rock on the radio respectable again. whether fame, money or comfort comes with it or not, doesnt really matter to mereally, one thing i could do would be to have four kids, teach them all instruments, and instill in them everything they need to change the music world forever, and then be their manager or something... kinda like the beach boys i guess (haha, not really)... but yeah thats all i want to do. contribute to the music community in some kind of significant waybut yeah i see your points, and yeah obviously im still being realistic about it, right now im working in engineering and trying to further my career, and i still plan on getting a degreebut at the same time, im working on my music career (a little bit harder, to be honest). im doing something about it all---as a vocalist, im not so great at lyrics, so ive taken up reading and im taking a poetry class. as a bassist, i dont know much theory, so im now taking a guitar 2 course. im not used to playing with my fingers, so im pretty much trying to do that all the time till i get used to it and can do both. i see no reason I can't continue to see my shortcomings and do something about them, and eventually be the musician i dream of being. and then, I'll put out an album with my band, and I'll tour, promote, blah blah blah... everything I need to do, and hopefully, I'll accomplish my goal and make a difference. and if not, I'll be drafting workprints. but at least ive sincerely done my best You are going into a very grey area here. To pick up a banner and claim to make rock music respectable again is still subject to opinion. I would have a hard time myself thinking that I have the ability enough to crawl inside someone's head and determine if a song or album by them is utter sellout bull{censored} or honest. Integrity and honesty is all subjective. If I hear a band that is a "sloppy, bad sounding band who honestly think they'll make it one day by playing their bad blink182 ripoffs", well if they are honest and true to themselves at what they are doing, then that is good thing - even if I think the music is crap. A sellout is somebody that compromises personal integrity for monetary or social gains. If a guy writes cheap pop tunes, with crappy sappy lyrics but he's giving everything he has of himself and his soul, well, that is not a sellout; that is just what he/she does. ..and I would rather listen to a cheap crappy pop tune that was delivered with honesty and integrity than another artist that writes complex arrangements and Tolkein type lyrics for the soul purpose of cranial stature. On any given day, I'd rather hear any kind of music that comes from the heart than music that comes from the head.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ryanstanley Posted August 20, 2006 Author Members Share Posted August 20, 2006 Originally posted by DevilRaysFan You are going into a very grey area here. To pick up a banner and claim to make rock music respectable again is still subject to opinion. I would have a hard time myself thinking that I have the ability enough to crawl inside someone's head and determine if a song or album by them is utter sellout bull{censored} or honest. Integrity and honesty is all subjective. If I hear a band that is a "sloppy, bad sounding band who honestly think they'll make it one day by playing their bad blink182 ripoffs", well if they are honest and true to themselves at what they are doing, then that is good thing - even if I think the music is crap. A sellout is somebody that compromises personal integrity for monetary or social gains. If a guy writes cheap pop tunes, with crappy sappy lyrics but he's giving everything he has of himself and his soul, well, that is not a sellout; that is just what he/she does. ..and I would rather listen to a cheap crappy pop tune that was delivered with honesty and integrity than another artist that writes complex arrangements and Tolkein type lyrics for the soul purpose of cranial stature. On any given day, I'd rather hear any kind of music that comes from the heart than music that comes from the head.............. oh yeah man i agree completely.. this is exactly what im trying to do--- help make it popular again to write real, genuine music instead of cold, formulaic crap. complex arrangements dont mean {censored} if there's no feeling there. its all about soul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DevilRaysFan Posted August 20, 2006 Members Share Posted August 20, 2006 Originally posted by ryanstanley oh yeah man i agree completely.. this is exactly what im trying to do--- help make it popular again to write real, genuine music instead of cold, formulaic crap. complex arrangements dont mean {censored} if there's no feeling there. its all about soul Well, you've got my complete support, brother and let me know when you come down here to Ocala to play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ryanstanley Posted August 20, 2006 Author Members Share Posted August 20, 2006 definitely, man itll be a little while though, cause we just got all our members recently, and it'll take some time before we can really develop a style & band chemistry and whatnot, and before then its gonna sound a bit hackneyed.. but ill definitely keep all you hcbf'ers updated with new recordings or whatever, whether you all like it or not! so far though, its basically bluesy, funky classic rock-esque stuff with a twist. think cream meets steve miller band meets a whole {censored}load of other stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DevilRaysFan Posted August 20, 2006 Members Share Posted August 20, 2006 PM me in the future when you are ready and I'll see what I can do to introduce you to venues down here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KeysBear Posted August 20, 2006 Members Share Posted August 20, 2006 I left the fame and fortune angle behind very early in the game. I think I play to fight gut wrenching boredom. Music is what I do best and the rush is for me like other people must get from sky diving. It's a great endorphin release and the fun factor is way off the scale. I've played the big stages with the best sound crews and opened for some headliners. I've had people I greatly admire complement my work. At times I've lived like a king at the best hotels (or slept in my car), enjoyed an insane amount of quality women, played with some awesomely talented musicians, and travelled around the world. I'm not rich and I'm not a household name but the ride for me has been very fulfilling. So, I guess I'm a failure by commercial standards but I'm still glad that 32 years ago I bought that Rhodes stage piano and gave it my best shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rippin' Robin Posted August 20, 2006 Members Share Posted August 20, 2006 "Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jazz Ad Posted August 20, 2006 Members Share Posted August 20, 2006 I don't rely on music to make a living, so I just do what I want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Markee Posted August 20, 2006 Members Share Posted August 20, 2006 You never going to make music on the radio respectable again until you buy a station away from one of the three big conglomerates that play formula music. You want great music with unending selection try tuning into www.KEXP.org. It's an independently run and owned radio station....actually Paul Allen owns it and they have means to listen to either their live show or archieves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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