Members Narcosynthesis Posted November 5, 2006 Members Share Posted November 5, 2006 I want a proper bass rig, my guitar amp handles everything pretty damn well at home for me, but the prospect of a band kinda rules out that plan for making a racket (a 40 watt valve amp is more than enough volume for home, or for guitar, but not bass in a band...) I am liking the look of the Ashdown MAG300, sounds great, decent price, sold.The problem is the cab and the space I have available, ie none... What is the smallest cab I could get away with while still giving a decent sound and responce? I guess DIY would be the plan, letting me build it as I like, so how can I work out how to design and build it for the best responce and smallest size I realise you generally want a big volume for better responce, but there will be limits to how far you can get before it actually becomes an issue... any ideas? David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members T. Alan Smith Posted November 5, 2006 Members Share Posted November 5, 2006 You want speaker surface to push enough air to be heard. How much speaker surface depends on your situation. If your playing against a 40W guitar amp pushing a 1 or 2 12" guitar cab and a drummer, then I recommend at least a single 15" speaker cab, if not a 2x12 or a combination. Depending on how clean you want your sound, a general rule of thumb is at least 4x the wattage of your guitarist, so in this case, you'd want at least 200W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators isaac42 Posted November 5, 2006 Moderators Share Posted November 5, 2006 Consider Hoffman's Iron Law. If small size is your most important consideration, then what you want is more power, and a cabinet that can handle it. You can also get smaller by giving up some low frequency extension. Along that line, what kind of sound are you looking for? So what are your restraints on size? Is total volume a factor, or is it just the footprint? Has to fit in your car? What are you up against? How many other players in the band, and what are they using? Will you have PA support, or does your amp have to do all the work? How loud will you be playing, and in what size rooms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bluescout Posted November 5, 2006 Members Share Posted November 5, 2006 It's not just more cab volume for better response, speakers are designed to work with specific volumes. You can contact Eminence and look at their spec sheets. There's no substitute for SQ inches of speaker. Maybe try a vertical 212 or 2 single 12 cabs stacked for a small footprint but big sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators isaac42 Posted November 5, 2006 Moderators Share Posted November 5, 2006 Originally posted by Bluescout It's not just more cab volume for better response, speakers are designed to work with specific volumes. You can contact Eminence and look at their spec sheets.There's no substitute for SQ inches of speaker. Maybe try a vertical 212 or 2 single 12 cabs stacked for a small footprint but big sound. Actually, there is. It's cubic inches of total displacement. A 12" driver with 8mm Xmax will move more air than a 15" driver with 3mm. Lots more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members badmotor Posted November 5, 2006 Members Share Posted November 5, 2006 See http://www.bagend.com/ and browse to the S15-D bass speaker.They are only 18x18x15 inches I think and handle 200w.Nice and small! 2 of them together would work really well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bluescout Posted November 5, 2006 Members Share Posted November 5, 2006 Originally posted by isaac42 Actually, there is. It's cubic inches of total displacement. A 12" driver with 8mm Xmax will move more air than a 15" driver with 3mm. Lots more. What I was saying is some speakers are designed for larger or smaller cabinets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emprov Posted November 5, 2006 Members Share Posted November 5, 2006 Originally posted by isaac42 Actually, there is. It's cubic inches of total displacement. A 12" driver with 8mm Xmax will move more air than a 15" driver with 3mm. Lots more. Ok, there's decibles and there's perceived volume. Are you saying that the perceived volume of the 12 would be greater than that of the 15? And I'd check out Dr. Bass for small cabs that get you heard. The ones that I've had aren't the deepest sounding cabs but they're definitely the loudest and punchiest for their size. They're the only cabs that I truely regret selling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Onkel Bob Posted November 5, 2006 Members Share Posted November 5, 2006 How about a Schroeder 1210? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emprov Posted November 5, 2006 Members Share Posted November 5, 2006 Originally posted by Onkel Bob How about a Schroeder 1210? An excellent suggestion. And, as fate would have it, I happen to have one that I can sell him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Onkel Bob Posted November 5, 2006 Members Share Posted November 5, 2006 Originally posted by Emprov An excellent suggestion. And, as fate would have it, I happen to have one that I can sell him! Or he could just try and win the one in the sticky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Narcosynthesis Posted November 5, 2006 Author Members Share Posted November 5, 2006 It would be most likely paired with an Ashdown MAG300H, so thats 180 watts into 8 ohms, or 300 into 4 ohms For a rock sound really, just started practising and we were playing things like Fugazi and Nofx and some other clean punk/rock stuff, and also some fuzzey stuff like Muse and Blur (song 2 in specific) - done with Big Muff It is to take up as little space as possible - I have a tiny room that I need to fit everything into atm, I guess setting up vertically could work quite well, and things like depth come into play I was thinking of a diy, shipping and so on pretty much rules out buying from the US, and a diy lets me do it as I wish David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ace Of Bass Posted November 5, 2006 Members Share Posted November 5, 2006 Originally posted by Emprov Ok, there's decibles and there's perceived volume. Are you saying that the perceived volume of the 12 would be greater than that of the 15? He's saying that for a given input wattage, the output will be higher. It will be louder. It will have a higher sound pressure level because it gets better sensitivity. and he's right--although magnet strength also plays a part in it as well. A wimpy magnet won't be able to push the coil all 8mm, so in that case the xmax doesn't really mean anything. But for any pro quality speaker, they'll have good magnets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members no-logic Posted November 5, 2006 Members Share Posted November 5, 2006 Originally posted by Emprov An excellent suggestion. And, as fate would have it, I happen to have one that I can sell him! Damn! Why do you keep reminding me of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emprov Posted November 5, 2006 Members Share Posted November 5, 2006 Originally posted by no-logic Damn! Why do you keep reminding me of that? Reminding you of what? The fact that you can have a Shroeder 1210 in awesome condition sitting in your house or practice space within a few days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators isaac42 Posted November 5, 2006 Moderators Share Posted November 5, 2006 Originally posted by Emprov Ok, there's decibles and there's perceived volume. Are you saying that the perceived volume of the 12 would be greater than that of the 15? And I'd check out Dr. Bass for small cabs that get you heard. The ones that I've had aren't the deepest sounding cabs but they're definitely the loudest and punchiest for their size. They're the only cabs that I truely regret selling. When you start talking about perception, you open a whole new can of worms. Systems with lots of peaks will always sound louder than systems with smoother response, but the tone quality will be different. For all I know, someone might perceive a system as louder simply because it looks louder, being larger or having bigger drivers. What I was saying in my previous post is that the actual area of a driver is not important in and of itself. The actual amplitude of sound is a function of the total swept volume, which is the area multiplied by the throw (Sd x Xmax = Vd). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emprov Posted November 5, 2006 Members Share Posted November 5, 2006 Originally posted by isaac42 When you start talking about perception, you open a whole new can of worms. Systems with lots of peaks will always sound louder than systems with smoother response, but the tone quality will be different. For all I know, someone might perceive a system as louder simply because it looks louder, being larger or having bigger drivers. But if you think about it, in a gig situation, perceived volume matters a heck of a lot. There are situations where a single 12 can put out more volume than a 115 or a 210 but, just because of the difference in speaker area, the perceived volume is going to be greater with the less efficient speaker(s). Am I wrong here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Adrenochrome Posted November 5, 2006 Members Share Posted November 5, 2006 My MAG 300r does nearly all my gigs with a single 8 ohm 1x15 cab. I use a Peavey 15" black widow which has better high frequency response than other similar priced 15" speakers an still has all the depth for the low frequencies.Don't forget that the MAG 300 peaks at much more than 180 or 300 watts which are just the continuous wattage figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dragon9666 Posted November 5, 2006 Members Share Posted November 5, 2006 http://cgi.ebay.com/AMPEG-BA-115-Bass-Guitar-Amplifier-Amp_W0QQitemZ120048339967QQihZ002QQcategoryZ121156QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Something like this is what im looking into for pratice and small gigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted November 5, 2006 Members Share Posted November 5, 2006 Originally posted by dragon9666 http://cgi.ebay.com/AMPEG-BA-115-Bass-Guitar-Amplifier-Amp_W0QQitemZ120048339967QQihZ002QQcategoryZ121156QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Something like this is what im looking into for pratice and small gigs. Great amp. I have one. If you can get it for that price, it's a steal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members no-logic Posted November 5, 2006 Members Share Posted November 5, 2006 Originally posted by Emprov Reminding you of what? The fact that you can have a Shroeder 1210 in awesome condition sitting in your house or practice space within a few days? Yeah, that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators isaac42 Posted November 5, 2006 Moderators Share Posted November 5, 2006 Originally posted by Emprov But if you think about it, in a gig situation, perceived volume matters a heck of a lot. There are situations where a single 12 can put out more volume than a 115 or a 210 but, just because of the difference in speaker area, the perceived volume is going to be greater with the less efficient speaker(s). Am I wrong here? Only because you think it's a function of speaker area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emprov Posted November 5, 2006 Members Share Posted November 5, 2006 Originally posted by isaac42 Only because you think it's a function of speaker area. I'm wrong because I think that it's a function of speaker area? Just going from personal experience. I tried for a long time to go with smaller cabs with less speaker area and I found that the perceived volume wasn't as great as a bigger cab with more speaker area. Granted, smaller cabs have less volume which plays a huge role but I can't help but think that more surface area is going to be perceived as being louder in most situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Narcosynthesis Posted November 5, 2006 Author Members Share Posted November 5, 2006 Any more ideas then? David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JeffBass Posted November 5, 2006 Members Share Posted November 5, 2006 A single 12" Avatar NEO with 200-300 watts pushing it would sound fantastic, plus you can always add another one later if the band is needs more volume. The best sound in the world is a single, 12" cab in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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