P-Bass Neck/Pitch Problems

[Vic Stringfield]

I have a mike dirnt P bass from around 2005. I have had it set up a couple times but the last time I was told that they adjusted the neck as much as they could. It still has really high action.

 

I was recording with my band this weekend and my bass pitch was off when i went down the neck to hit notes even 5 frets down. So I had to use a cheap Washburn bass that was in the studio that actually sounded really good on the recording compared to my bass.

 

Has anyone had this kind of experience? I am thinking about getting another bass or a new neck(maybe a warmouth or something cheaper if I can find it). I just don't know if it is worth it. I like the tone from my pick up and I think the bass looks killer but it bums me out that I cannot record with it and the neck keeps bowing even though I have had it intonated a couple times.

 

Anyways, any advise would be appreciated. (FYI I have a Ric 4003 on order but from the other posts on here I don't think It its coming anytime soon).

[L-1329]

Neck relief is not what sets action height, but it can limit how low you can go before you get buzzing. You can shim the neck angle so that the proper string height falls within the limits of the bridge and adjust intonation from there. Get with Kindness and he'll square you away stat.

[Vic Stringfield]

Sweet , sounds like I don't have to get a new neck. Who is Kindness? Sorry, this is my first time on a message board. I have played Bass for a few years but have never had to do any kind of mods.

[L-1329]

Sweet , sounds like I don't have to get a new neck. Who is Kindness? Sorry, this is my first time on a message board. I have played Bass for a few years but have never had to do any kind of mods.

 

Kindness is our resident expert on setups and tech issues. PM him and I'm sure he'll help you figure your bass problems out.

[someotherguy]

Welcome to the board!

[LanEvo]

 

it bums me out that I cannot record with it and the neck keeps bowing even though I have had it intonated a couple times.

You've thrown me for a loop here. Neck bowing is fixed with truss rod adjustments; intonation is set via saddle adjustments.

 

Emre

[gljerry]

Neck pitch WILL ALWAYS effect your action. ALWAYS. Anyone who says otherwise is absolutely wrong. Just read any owners manual for any guitar or bass ever produced. If your neck is bowed too much (meaning there is a prominent dip) the neck will be further from your strings in the center, say...the middle 12-15 frets, In fact usually a neck bowed to it's maximum will create higher action then a perfectly straight neck with the bridge.saddles adjusted to max height. The same is true fo an "overbowed neck" your strings will be touching the neck rendering it unplayable. THIS prooves that neck reliefe seriously effects you action. With this said you might want to relieve any bow that you have. After this adjust each saddle. You will still have some buzz, there is almost always a buzz. Thought, usually playing harder will increase this buzz. There is usually no need to slam the strings unless your slapping. Hope this helps. Also, buying a new neck is pretty expensive and will sometimes prove to be a waste as the neck pocket on the bass itself sometimes causes the problem. And other times thats just what the bass sounds/plays like.

 

 

So....look down the side of your neck with your opposite eye closed (like a telescope)

 

-------

If its too bowed turn the truss adjuster to the right untill it's less bowed.

If it's over bowed turn the truss adjuster to the left untill it's slightly bowed)

If it's straight liketurn the truss to the left until its only slightly bowed,

 

Hope this helps!

[LanEvo]

Neck pitch WILL ALWAYS effect your action. ALWAYS. Anyone who says otherwise is absolutely wrong. Just read any owners manual for any guitar or bass ever produced.

Who said it doesn't

 

Emre

[Vic Stringfield]

Well, Ive learned a lot. Thanks for welcoming me. I had the bass set up professionally once and then one of my bandmates dads set it up the last time. He has been working on guitars for over 20 years so I don't think he was wrong when he said he adjusted the neck as much as he could. Maybe he just didn't want to push it because it wasn't his own kids instrument.

 

You guys have convinced me to take it to a professional again and give it another try at getting the neck set up properly and then having them lower the action.

 

Thanks a ton !

[bassman1956]

 

Hi!

 

Yeah, sounds like a thorough set-up's in order, including neck shimming.

[Kindness]

 

I've heard it a million times in fact someone earlier in this thread said "Neck relief is not what sets action height" , so as you can see, a lot of people say this. I'm just trying to educate here. AND, I'm not trying to call anyone out.

 

 

Anyone that uses neck relief to adjust action height is ignorant of the principles at work.

 

Vic - You should have received a PM response from me. I look forward to your response.

[gljerry]

 

Well, Ive learned a lot. Thanks for welcoming me. I had the bass set up professionally once and then one of my bandmates dads set it up the last time. He has been working on guitars for over 20 years so I don't think he was wrong when he said he adjusted the neck as much as he could. Maybe he just didn't want to push it because it wasn't his own kids instrument. You guys have convinced me to take it to a professional again and give it another try at getting the neck set up properly and then having them lower the action. Thanks a ton !

 

 

A tech is going to TRY to get that truss to turn. Attempt it yourself if you feel comfortable. Give it some force. You've already had 2 tec's look at it! If your neck is bowed too much the only way to fix it is to get that truss to turn, sometimes they get stuck. IF yours IS stuck, and wont come loose, (whick it could be) you will need a new neck, so you really dont have anything to loose by trying to turn it with some more force.

[Kindness]

 

And other times thats just what the bass sounds/plays like.

 

 

Never.

[Kindness]

 

A tech is going to TRY to get that truss to turn. Attempt it yourself if you feel comfortable. Give it some force. You've already had 2 tec's look at it! If your neck is bowed too much the only way to fix it is to get that truss to turn, sometimes they get stuck. IF yours IS stuck, and wont come loose, (whick it could be) you will need a new neck, so you really dont have anything to loose by trying to turn it with some more force.

 

 

You are giving out very dangerous (and poor) advice without ever asking Vic the right questions or giving him enough basis for making assessments.

[LanEvo]

 

I had the bass set up professionally once and then one of my bandmates dads set it up the last time. He has been working on guitars for over 20 years so I don't think he was wrong when he said he adjusted the neck as much as he could.

Did you watch him while he was doing it? If so, did you see him remove the neck? If not, then it's pretty safe to say that he didn't factor in the neck-to-body angle (pitch).

 

If the neck pitch is off, then no amount of fiddling with string height or neck relief will ever amount to anything. The way you approach a basic set-up on bolt-on guitar or bass is like this:

 

(1) Neck pitch

(2) Saddle height

(3) Relief

(4) Intonation

 

You may have to go back and forth a few times. But those are the basic steps. I'm leaving out stuff like filing the nut and fret work, which many production basses will also require.

 

I recently picked up a Squier Vintage Modified Fretless Jazz. I had to remove the neck and try different shim thicknesses 4-5 times before I got the neck pitch right. Then I went back and forth with string height and relief over the course of a few days: you shouldn't tighten or loosen your truss rod by more than ~1/4 turn at a time (it takes some time for the wood to come to its senses). Finally, I set the intonation.

 

Now I have a $300 fretless that plays better than just about any production bass I've ever laid hands on. You'd be amazed at what a proper set-up can do!

 

Emre

[gljerry]

 

Anyone that uses neck relief to adjust action height is ignorant of the principles at work. Vic - You should have received a PM response from me. I look forward to your response.

 

 

I Never said you should adjust the truss rod to change the action. NEVER. I said it WILL effect the action. AND OBVIOUSLY IT WILL.

 

I am certainly not ignorant. I must say, That is a rude assumption. You did'nt even understand what I was saying. Who's ignorant? Plus, I can back up everything I've said with numerous published sources from fender to gibson.

[Kindness]

snip

 

This is more like it.

 

However, setting relief comes before setting pitch and string heights. It's the only way to find the best angle to shim to.

[Zebra]

 

A tech is going to TRY to get that truss to turn. Attempt it yourself if you feel comfortable. Give it some force. You've already had 2 tec's look at it! If your neck is bowed too much the only way to fix it is to get that truss to turn, sometimes they get stuck. IF yours IS stuck, and wont come loose, (whick it could be) you will need a new neck, so you really dont have anything to loose by trying to turn it with some more force.

 

 

Frankly, I don't think this is good advice. It sounds like his truss rod's been tweeked to hell, in which situation I'd be concerned that more screwing around could snap it or seriously damage the neck.

 

To Vic, I'd suggest you listen to Kindness and/or take it in to a REAL professional. It sounds like the guy you were dealing with before was screwing things up.

[Kindness]

 

I am certainly not ignorant. I must say, That is a rude assumption. You did'nt even understand what I was saying. Who's ignorant? Plus, I can back up everything I've said with numerous published sources from fender to gibson.

 

 

I never called you ignorant, but I will say your reading comprehension is poor. I suggest you go back through the thread, read what has been written and then we can continue the conversation if you have any issues.

[LanEvo]

However, setting relief comes before setting pitch and string heights. It's the only way to find the best angle to shim to.

I suppose you're right.

 

What I generally do is set up the bass as well as I can before the neck comes off. I play it that way for a few days just to give everything time to settle in. Only then do I go ahead with the full set-up as I outlined above.

 

I try to avoid removing the neck too many times: I'm paranoid about stripping the threads!

 

Having said that, I have occasionally come across basses that were so far out of whack that there's basically no point in even bothering with anything else until you set the neck back a few degrees. I just played a P-Bass at a local G.C. over the weekend that looked more like a compound bow than a bass

 

Emre

[gljerry]

Lets not argue. Look... heres my point of view.I have been a guitar/bass tech for 12 years and I've set up guitars for Dave Mustaine. I know my {censored}. That is my sugesstion and I stand by it...dangerous?? the guys neck is probly F###ed! And hes thinking of buying another neck cause 2 tecks already said they cant do anything! So I wouldnt really call it Dangerous. I know your just looking out for the guy and THATS cool. Remember, I said...IF you feel comfortable...you know....anyway it's all good I have to fly. Love the bass forums!

[Kindness]

 

Lets not argue. Look... heres my point of view.I have been a guitar/bass tech for 12 years and I've set up guitars for Dave Mustaine. I know my {censored}. That is my sugesstion and I stand by it...dangerous?? the guys neck is probly F###ed! And hes thinking of buying another neck cause 2 tecks already said they cant do anything! So I wouldnt really call it Dangerous. I know your just looking out for the guy and THATS cool. Remember, I said...IF you feel comfortable...you know....anyway it's all good I have to fly. Love the bass forums!

 

 

I'm not arguing and apologize if you see it otherwise. If you know your {censored}, and you very well might, there are much better ways to express yourself and to teach those completely unfamiliar with the process.

[Kindness]

I try to avoid removing the neck too many times: I'm paranoid about stripping the threads!

 

I prefer those that are paranoid to those that are cavalier, but stripped threads can be easily taken care of with a few toothpicks and some yellow glue.

[LanEvo]

I prefer those that are paranoid to those that are cavalier, but stripped threads can be easily taken care of with a few toothpicks and some yellow glue.

Ahh, yes. I must confess, I have some experience with this trick

 

Emre

[gljerry]

As for the toothpick thing.... This 'trick' was devised by roadies during the early/mid fifties when musicians strap pegs would fall off or become loose on the road. It's a good soloution for securing a strap peg. This method was never meant to be used for securing the neck. Although it may sometimes work temporarily... when the neck comes loose again and it will...it will come without warning. Like....the neck can fall off while playing. I've seen & heard it many many many many many many times. I say many so many times cause I know some 15 year old kid in his pajamas is going to argue with me. Seriously. I suggest having the neck doweled by a good tech. And if you Secure a neck that has several hundred pounds of pressure on it with a toothpick your are asking for it to fall off during a performance.