Moderators Kindness Posted November 20, 2007 Moderators Share Posted November 20, 2007 As for the toothpick thing.... This 'trick' was devised by roadies during the early/mid fifties when musicians strap pegs would fall off or become loose on the road. It's a good soloution for securing a strap peg. This method was never meant to be used for securing the neck. Although it may sometimes work temporarily... when the neck comes loose again and it will...it will come without warning. Like....the neck can fall off while playing. I've seen & heard it many many many many many many times. I say many so many times cause I know some 15 year old in him pajamas is going to argue with me. Seriously. I suggest having the neck doweled by a good tech. And if you Secure a neck that has several hundred pounds of pressure on it with a toothpick your are asking for it to fall off during a performance. You're forgetting the key ingredient, the glue, which creates a stronger bond than the wood itself. Without the glue, you are dead on. Doweling the holes is the exact same concept. Without gluing in the dowels = Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gljerry Posted November 20, 2007 Members Share Posted November 20, 2007 You're forgetting the key ingredient, the glue, which creates a stronger bond than the wood itself. Without the glue, you are dead on. Doweling the holes is the exact same concept. Without gluing in the dowels = Even with the glue the pressure builds. Then, changes in humidity (or lack of) can shift the wood. At that point the glue looses any hold it had on the body. And then, you guessed it... there goes the neck! Always dowel to be safe...but hey...we've all needed a quick fix from time to time and TOOTHPICKING can be a GREAT but temporary soloution. Sometimes even for a gig or two...but it's never 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted November 20, 2007 Moderators Share Posted November 20, 2007 even with the glue the pressure builds. changes in humidity (or lack of) can shift the wood. at that point the glue looses any hold it had on the body. always dowel to be safe...but hey...we'll needed a quick fix from time to time and this can be a GREAT temporary soloution. I'm not going to argue against the better solution (yours). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LanEvo Posted November 20, 2007 Members Share Posted November 20, 2007 As for the toothpick thing.... This 'trick' was devised by roadies during the early/mid fifties when musicians strap pegs would fall off or become loose on the road. It's a good soloution for securing a strap peg. That's all I've ever used it for. A couple of bamboo toothpicks slathered in Elmer's wood glue carefully tapped into place. Then trim off the excess with a razor and let it dry for a while. The strap peg screws right in without any fuss Emre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gljerry Posted November 20, 2007 Members Share Posted November 20, 2007 It is a most excellent soloution. I've even used it on heavy vintage les pauls. No trouble with the strap pegs for sometimes years. the FLAT toothpicks are the ones you are suposed to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bholder Posted November 20, 2007 Members Share Posted November 20, 2007 As for the toothpick thing.... This 'trick' was devised by roadies during the early/mid fifties when musicians strap pegs would fall off or become loose on the road. It's a good soloution for securing a strap peg. This method was never meant to be used for securing the neck. Although it may sometimes work temporarily... when the neck comes loose again and it will...it will come without warning. Like....the neck can fall off while playing. I've seen & heard it many many many many many many times. I say many so many times cause I know some 15 year old kid in his pajamas is going to argue with me. Seriously. I suggest having the neck doweled by a good tech. And if you Secure a neck that has several hundred pounds of pressure on it with a toothpick your are asking for it to fall off during a performance. It goes way back before the 50's, and is not limited to musical instruments, for what it's worth. Done properly, such a repair can last a lifetime. Done poorly, it's only slightly better than doing nothing. Anyone who has a neck come off during playing after such a repair is either hyper destructive towards their instrument, or had the repair done by an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gljerry Posted November 20, 2007 Members Share Posted November 20, 2007 It still has really high action.... I was recording with my band this weekend and my bass pitch was off when i went down the neck to hit notes even 5 frets down. a neck that is bowed too much will have inaccurate intonation to the ear. While the individual string saddles may be at the correct legnth the neck is only so long...so as the neck bows the frets individual position under the strings shift....although this is very slight, it can compound any inaccuracies your bass/guitar has and/or that the saddles may have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted November 20, 2007 Moderators Share Posted November 20, 2007 It goes way back before the 50's, and is not limited to musical instruments, for what it's worth. Done properly, such a repair can last a lifetime. Done poorly, it's only slightly better than doing nothing. Anyone who has a neck come off during playing after such a repair is either hyper destructive towards their instrument, or had the repair done by an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gljerry Posted November 20, 2007 Members Share Posted November 20, 2007 It goes way back before the 50's, and is not limited to musical instruments, for what it's worth. Done properly, such a repair can last a lifetime. Done poorly, it's only slightly better than doing nothing. Anyone who has a neck come off during playing after such a repair is either hyper destructive towards their instrument, or had the repair done by an idiot. I cant believe you are a hall of fame member. maybe a hall of fame 15 year old in his pajamas. toothpick doweling is only PROFESSIONALLY used for strap pegs. Securing a neck with a toothpick and glue dowel job is nowhere close to ideal. AND NO REPUTABLE TECH WILL DO IT. HOW DO YOU ARGUE WITH THAT? yeah, We're gonna hand a pro guitarist a guitar with a neck supported by toothpicks. WOW. you say if done properly...IF DONE PROPERLY IT WOULD BE REDRILLED AND DOWELED. I said it was a good temp soloution maybe for a neck and thats what it is...nothing more. And for doweling to be older than the 50's...no {censored}...not on goddam electric guitars it was'nt. You shouldnt be giving advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bholder Posted November 20, 2007 Members Share Posted November 20, 2007 I cant believe you are a hall of fame member. maybe a hall of fame 15 year old in his pajamas.toothpick doweling is only PROFESSIONALLY used for strap pegs.Securing a neck with a toothpick and glue dowel job is nowhere close to ideal. AND NO TECH WILL DO IT. HOW DO YOU ARGUE WITH THAT?yeah, We're gonna hand a pro guitarist a guitar with a neck supported by toothpicks. WOW. you say if done properly...IF DONE PROPERLY IT WOULD BE REDRILLED AND DOWELED. I said it was a good temp soloution maybe for a neck and thats what it is...nothing more.And for doweling to be older than the 50's...no {censored}...not on goddam electric guitars it was'nt.You shouldnt be giving advice. Then neither should you. I've been playing and working on musical instruments for 36 years. Did I ever say a toothpick fix to a neck joint was ideal? No. I just anyone who breaks such a fix is acting destructively or did the repair wrong. And I did point out that this method didn't begin on musical instruments. Can't you read? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LanEvo Posted November 20, 2007 Members Share Posted November 20, 2007 You know, Jerry, for a relative newcomer to this forum, you sure are argumentative, aggressive, and impolite towards some of the older guys. We get it. You were a tech for Megadeath or something. Doesn't mean you're the only guy who's ever set up a bass in the universe. Emre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LanEvo Posted November 20, 2007 Members Share Posted November 20, 2007 the FLAT toothpicks are the ones you are suposed to use.Well, I find that bamboo toothpicks give me smoother mids Emre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bholder Posted November 20, 2007 Members Share Posted November 20, 2007 Well, I find that bamboo toothpicks give me smoother mids Emre I think ironwood toothpicks go best with my lava cables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LanEvo Posted November 20, 2007 Members Share Posted November 20, 2007 I think ironwood toothpicks go best with my lava cables. Yeah, it always makes me laugh when I see guys using flat toothpicks. Everyone knows that they kill your highs. But ironwood is a little too sterile and Hi-Fi sounding. Bamboo gives me that vintage honk I'm looking for. Emre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted November 20, 2007 Moderators Share Posted November 20, 2007 There may still be a high end audio market niche left to exploit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gljerry Posted November 20, 2007 Members Share Posted November 20, 2007 You know, Jerry, for a relative newcomer to this forum, you sure are argumentative, aggressive, and impolite towards some of the older guys.We get it. You were a tech for Megadeath or something. Doesn't mean you're the only guy who's ever set up a bass in the universe.Emre Whos argumentative? If you look at whats happened in this thread, and it's only been in this thread, my advice and opinions have been insulted for no reason. Give me one thing I've said that you think is wrong and I'll f***ing proove it to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted November 21, 2007 Moderators Share Posted November 21, 2007 Whos argumentative? If you look at whats happened in this thread, and it's only been in this thread, my advice and opinions have been insulted for no reason. Give me one thing I've said that you think is wrong and I'll f***ing proove it to you. You gave bad advice over a few posts and got called on it. No reason to get all worked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted November 21, 2007 Moderators Share Posted November 21, 2007 the guys neck is probly F###ed! These are draconian suggestions and you haven't even taken the time to diagnose or trouble shoot the situation yourself. There is no reason to trust the workmanship of the people that have previously touched the bass since we don't even know who they are. There are lots of questions to be asked and answered before deciding that the neck is screwed up. I am willing to bet that it isn't and that I can fix. If you want to continue to be an ass about it I'll have the bass shipped to me at my expense, fix it, send it back to the OP and he can tell you how it turns out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gljerry Posted November 21, 2007 Members Share Posted November 21, 2007 Since we don't even know who they are He said one of the guys was an experienced tech. I'll keep giving my good advice, but I wont be responding to this anymore. I thought I could teach you few renegades something but obviously that isnt going to happen. You jump to conclusions and argue fact and it sucks the fun out of the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thumper Posted November 21, 2007 Members Share Posted November 21, 2007 (waits for King Kashue to wade into the fray...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted November 21, 2007 Moderators Share Posted November 21, 2007 He said one of the guys was an experienced tech. Don't trust everything you read. It is important to evaluate the tangible evidence before making recommendations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted November 21, 2007 Moderators Share Posted November 21, 2007 You've been around long enough to jump in with a KK impression for us. Snap to it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Johnny Duart Posted November 21, 2007 Members Share Posted November 21, 2007 I think the best advice would be to let a Fender certified tech actually check out the bass in person then determine what needs to be done to fix the problem. If I am having trouble breathing, I'd rather have a doctor check me out in person than have him diagnose my problem over the phone or on a WebMD forum. I may be wrong, but aren't basses like Squires and Rogues harder to set up than , let's say, a Music Man StingRay because they are technically/quality wise inferior to higher quality basses?? I learned to set up my StingRay by watching the tech do it and asking a bunch of questions. Sometimes that won't work because once you figure out how to do it, then they loose your business. Some get very testy about that. I set my Ray up according to Ernie Ball specs and only have to make adjustments usually when the weather changes from summer to winter or winter to spring. The change from humid to dry weather or visa-versa makes the neck either bow more, (drier weather), or less, (humid weather). Also, the StingRay truss rod adjustment is the best. It is the easiest to access and you don't need special tools for it.....hell, you can use a nail to turn it if you want.Anyways, my opinion is usually ignored on this site, but I thought I'd throw in my two cents anyway.John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thumper Posted November 21, 2007 Members Share Posted November 21, 2007 You've been around long enough to jump in with a KK impression for us. Snap to it! And risk a smack-down from the King? Uh-uh. No way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bholder Posted November 21, 2007 Members Share Posted November 21, 2007 Whos argumentative? If you look at whats happened in this thread, and it's only been in this thread, my advice and opinions have been insulted for no reason. Give me one thing I've said that you think is wrong and I'll f***ing proove it to you. You're argumentative, actually. You didn't even read my post thoroughly before replying with an attack filled with more personal insults (by the way, that's a clear violation of forum rules) than actual information. You automatically think your opinion trumps everyone else's, and you're giving out bad, and at times dangerous, advice, then attacking people personally when they challenge you. I'm surprised you haven't been banned yet, honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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