sound is sum of it's parts and technique/playing

[knuckle_head]

This bugs me a bit.

 

Like it or not a bass has a sound all its own. It is unique per instrument based on materials, fit and finish. What you do with it is where it becomes personal.

 

You cannot make a basswood bodied bolt on with a flatsawn neck a harmonics monster. And while you can roll off highs and mids, a neck-through carbon-structured headless won't ever have the thump and thud of a P.

 

You can change the tone of an instrument by the way you excite the strings. You can alter harmonic structure by messing with EQ curves. You can introduce color by virtue of pickups, preamps, amplification and cab choices.

 

You cannot change the sound a bass has unless you alter its construction.

 

Discuss

[T. Alan Smith]

This weekend, I changed the sound of my fretless 'Ray 4 st. completely...several times, in fact. I simply handed it to another player.

 

That said, yes, an instrument has an inherent sound of it's own regardless of "technique/playing." But I'm MUCH rather hear someone display their personality thru their instrument than simply display what that instrument sounds like, clinically speaking.

[Super Bass]

We had a similar discussion recently on this subject on an Irish message board that I'm on. The general conscensus was that the player and instrument both have an affect on the sound, the player can change the way the instrument sounds to some degree but the instrument will still maintain its character.

[T. Alan Smith]

 

We had a similar discussion recently on this subject on an Irish message board that I'm on. The general conscensus was that the player and instrument both have an affect on the sound, the player can change the way the instrument sounds to some degree but the instrument will still maintain its character.

 

 

For example, a Ric has a highly recognizable sound. However, a player like BNysonger's character comes across just as clear on a Ric as it does on his Fender P/Js. Amy of Clatter is another Ric player. The Ric sound is very apparent in her overall sound, but her personality still comes across just as clear.

I sound absolutely NOTHING like Tony Levin even though I play a Musicman Stingray 5, which has quite a distinguished voice on it's own. Yet Tony Levin's personality comes across very well regardless of whether or not he's playing his 'Rays, his stick or his EUB.

[Super Bass]

Exactly.

[Jazz Ad]

I sound pretty much the same regardless of the instrument. It's even a bit aggravating.

Put an hyperactive carbon necked Status in my hands and it will go thump thump thump.

[L-1329]

I don't think Knucklehead is talking about personality, but about the basic natural charastics of an instrument, and I agree that does not change by who's playing. It's a physical machine, and it will produce a result based on it's design and construction, and his points are right. Sure there will be differences in each player, but it's very true that no matter who plays my P/J, it's always going to have that basic P sound to it. It will never sound like a MM, lightwave, or even most dual HB's, it will have that P tone. I have several basses, and play them all. I am the same player, but the sound is not the same on each one technically, that is an impossibility. I always play the same style since it's always me playing, but there are huge and very noticible differences in the tone of each. The statement that a player will always sound the same regardless of the bass is false and kind of simplistic thinking.

[Super Bass]

I sound pretty much the same regardless of the instrument. It's even a bit aggravating. Put an hyperactive carbon necked Status in my hands and it will go thump thump thump.

 

You just have to stop dropping the basses down the stairs Jazz Ad!

[ThudMaker]

I don't think Knucklehead is talking about personality, but about the basic natural charastics of an instrument, and I agree that does not change by who's playing. It's a physical machine, and it will produce a result based on it's design and construction, and his points are right. Sure there will be differences in each player, but it's very true that no matter who plays my P/J, it's always going to have that basic P sound to it. It will never sound like a MM, lightwave, or even most dual HB's, it will have that P tone. I have several basses, and play them all. I am the same player, but the sound is not the same on each one technically, that is an impossibility. I always play the same style since it's always me playing, but there are huge and very noticible differences in the tone of each. The statement that a player will always sound the same regardless of the bass is false and kind of simplistic thinking.

Yep. That's why there are different amp manufacturers and speaker sizes, too.

[T. Alan Smith]

I don't think Knucklehead is talking about personality, but about the basic natural charastics of an instrument, and I agree that does not change by who's playing. It's a physical machine, and it will produce a result based on it's design and construction, and his points are right. Sure there will be differences in each player, but it's very true that no matter who plays my P/J, it's always going to have that basic P sound to it. It will never sound like a MM, lightwave, or even most dual HB's, it will have that P tone. I have several basses, and play them all. I am the same player, but the sound is not the same on each one technically, that is an impossibility. I always play the same style since it's always me playing, but there are huge and very noticible differences in the tone of each. The statement that a player will always sound the same regardless of the bass is false and kind of simplistic thinking.

 

To be honest, I thought Knucklehead was referring more to the natural characteristic(s) of an instrument, but because he mentioned "technique/playing...exciting the strings", I wasn't sure he didn't want to bring the personal touch into the discussion.

Notice I didn't say the player would sound the same. Rather, I stated that their personality would still come across.

Which leads us to...

I like to think that I can cover a variety of "styles" using any of my basses, be it my Precision or my Stingrays...despite their inherent & distinctive characters. However, if a bass is designed with 'thump' as it's strength, I'll try to play to that strength. If a bass is designed with 'growl' as it's strength, I'll try to play to that strength. It's really a most beautiful excuse to add colors to your crayon box.

[L-1329]

 

Notice I didn't say the player would sound the same. Rather, I stated that their character would still come across.

 

 

This is actually a distinction that not enough people seem to understand, that a player's musical character, or style is not the same as a machine's physical tone, and vice-verse. Anyone can play any style, on any bass, and they will play like themselves. They will also always 'sound' like themselves, but that statement always refers more to their character and style than to physical tone. The physical tone though, is hugely dependent on the machine for the same exact reason a race driver can't turn hot laps in a minivan like they can in a corvette. Again, I sound vastly different on each of my basses because they are vastly different machines, I can never make them 'sound' the same no matter how hard I try, because that is a physical impossibility, no matter how much personal style and personality I put into it. Furthur proof? Take one of your basses, like your fretted Ray. Play it with a group. Then swap out the strings for flats. Do you still think that you will 'sound' the same in the group with all else being exactly the same? No way, and that's a result of the machine changing and giving a different tone.

[Kindness]

Edited and redirected at the posters in this thread:

 

thanks kids. Now, if you would like to debate the validity of my statement that a bass' sound is " a sum of it's parts and technique/playing", please start another thread and lets discuss. You are all probably a mediocre bass players at best, you likely don't read or write music, you pobably don't own a single piece of gear valued over $2000 or understand why I would even post this, and you've probably no idea what actually is involved in producing a high quality audio track... ie working in a studio. BTW... a P-bass sounds what a P-bass is supposed to sound like because of the split pickups... ie "P" pickups. Later.

 

 

 

 

 

source material

[Super Bass]

Edited and redirected at the posters in this thread: source material

 

I want to punch him.

 

What about if I put P bass pickups in a RIC (blasphemy, i know!). Its still not going to sound like P bass!

[Kindness]

I want to punch him. What about if I put P bass pickups in a RIC (blasphemy, i know!). Its still not going to sound like P bass!

 

All you need to do to make a Ric sound like a P is to solo the bridge pickup. Just ask xOriginalNinjax. I gave him a first hand demonstration this weekend.

[PaulyWally]

What about if I put P bass pickups in a RIC (blasphemy, i know!). Its still not going to sound like P bass!

 

But with Lava cables...

 

[Super Bass]

Pssh way to ruin my example!

 

 

 

[PaulyWally]

 

All you need to do to make a Ric sound like a P is to solo the bridge pickup. Just ask xOriginalNinjax. I gave him a first hand demonstration this weekend.

 

 

Is that all he did? He didn't tell me... but I was playing your Lakland P, and he plugged in your Ric and told me to listen.

 

I know Rics are more versatile than some give them credit for. But that was an ear-opening experience.

[ThudMaker]

Edited and redirected at the posters in this thread: source material

Evil Clown . . . .He's great at all techniques and knows everything there is to know. What possibly could he offer us low end plebians? Cake, anyone?

[Super Bass]

Mmmm... cake.

 

[Kindness]

Is that all he did? He didn't tell me... but I was playing your Lakland P, and he plugged in your Ric and told me to listen. I know Rics are more versatile than some give them credit for. But that was an ear-opening experience.

 

Yep. Certainly there are many tones locked inside the Ric waiting to be discovered by a musician, but I like to make mine sound like a P with the simple flick of a single switch.

[ThudMaker]

Yep. Certainly there are many tones locked inside the Ric waiting to be discovered by a musician, but I like to make mine sound like a P with the simple flick of a single switch.

Now I have GAS for a Ric. I thought it was over since I love P's and P/J's.

[Kindness]

Now I have GAS for a Ric. I thought it was over since I love P's and P/J's.

 

It's cool. You can do the P thing and also do much more. I think of my Ric as another PJ type instrument. I use it mostly as a P, but I have more versatility in my hands when using it.

[Kindness]

 

Discuss

 

 

Everything in the signal path plays a role to some extent. The proportions of causation change based on the relative strength of the components. A player with an extremely strong voice might have the greatest to do with the sound at the end of the chain. Conversely a chameleon of a player may disappear into the instrument. Strongly voiced pickups, such as the split coil P pickups, will have more to do with the sound at the end of the chain than a more broad spectrum output pickup. Overlooking any component is a disservice as it giving too much weight to an undeserving component.

[BoundandBlocked]

 

All you need to do to make a Ric sound like a P is to solo the bridge pickup. Just ask xOriginalNinjax. I gave him a first hand demonstration this weekend.

 

 

You solo the bridge pup for realzees? I can get a pretty good P sound out of my jazz, but it's more in the neck pup.

[Kindness]

 

You solo the bridge pup for realzees? I can get a pretty good P sound out of my jazz, but it's more in the neck pup.

 

 

Yep. If you are shooting for a thumpy P bass tone, a J bass with the neck pickup soloed and tone rolled off is a decent approximation (sort of), but if you like the grindy open P bass tone the bridge pickup on a Ric is a great sub.