Members T. Alan Smith Posted December 3, 2007 Members Share Posted December 3, 2007 This is actually a distinction that not enough people seem to understand, that a player's musical character, or style is not the same as a machine's physical tone, and vice-verse. Anyone can play any style, on any bass, and they will play like themselves. They will also always 'sound' like themselves, but that statement always refers more to their character and style than to physical tone.... ...and that's why players that don't understand this distinction might be better off keeping their focus on what instrument they already have, and simply getting it set up properly to develop their touch and their ear. I'll say it again- I almost have as much fun on my SX P-bass as I do on my Stingrays because it's well set up. Because it's tweaked to perform it's best, it doesn't hinder me from performing my best on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mlwarriner Posted December 3, 2007 Members Share Posted December 3, 2007 Evil Clown . . . .He's great at all techniques and knows everything there is to know. What possibly could he offer us low end plebians? Cake, anyone?low rent lesbians?:love::love: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DevilRaysFan Posted December 3, 2007 Members Share Posted December 3, 2007 This bugs me a bit.Like it or not a bass has a sound all its own. It is unique per instrument based on materials, fit and finish. What you do with it is where it becomes personal.You cannot make a basswood bodied bolt on with a flatsawn neck a harmonics monster. And while you can roll off highs and mids, a neck-through carbon-structured headless won't ever have the thump and thud of a P.You can change the tone of an instrument by the way you excite the strings. You can alter harmonic structure by messing with EQ curves. You can introduce color by virtue of pickups, preamps, amplification and cab choices.You cannot change the sound a bass has unless you alter its construction.Discuss Its a combination of materials used and the player -- Personally, I think the biggest factors are technique and pick-up placement.... Where the pickups are placed is where the voicings are..... most basses with a passive single humbucking PU located Mid Body will, more or less, have a P-Bass voice....the type of PU (particularly active or passive) will alter its characteristics and perhaps enhance dynamic range but the overall timbre will say "P-Bass"....Soloing the mid PU on a Jazz will approximate a P-Bass.....Slide the PU around and the voices change ( Gibson Grabber's, Westone Rails, and a few others figured this out a long time ago).... The StingRay is a good example of changing a location and PU-type, creating a unique voice.....playing at different places on the string changes tonality but does NOT change the voicing ( to me, its a more akin to using a tone control than actually changing the sound)..... Most basses that have single-coils mounted at the bridge and mid-position have Jazz Bass characteristics and voicings...If I use my ASAT in single coil mode with both PUs dimed and actives off, it takes on a very J-Bass quality, conversely if I solo the mid-PU in humbucking mode, it is very P-Bassish...This is one of the reasons why I always thought the T-40 would be even a bigger monster if the neck PU was moved to a mid position: even still, the T-40s rear PU is in a slightly different location than a J-Bass's, in relation to the saddles, because of the monster plate that its bridge sits on..In reality, its PU locations are more akin to a Rickenbacker 4001s PU locations, which is probably why a T-40 can simulate a Rick in the hands of the right player....as is, the T-40 can also simulate voicings of early Alembic basses voices, and this is mostly due to its PU placement and the quality/output of those massive PUs...... The other main part is technique, which varies from player to player.Woods and materials also have contributing value but I think PU placement and techique are the biggest factors Im also saying that my points above is a "ballpark" theory and certainly not an exact science..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members T. Alan Smith Posted December 3, 2007 Members Share Posted December 3, 2007 Yep. If you are shooting for a thumpy P bass tone, a J bass with the neck pickup soloed and tone rolled off is a decent approximation (sort of), but if you like the grindy open P bass tone the bridge pickup on a Ric is a great sub.Next time, I'm gonna spend some quality time with your Ric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members L-1329 Posted December 3, 2007 Members Share Posted December 3, 2007 ...and that's why players that don't understand this distinction might be better off keeping their focus on what instrument they already have, and simply getting it set up properly to develop their touch and their ear. I'll say it again- I almost have as much fun on my SX P-bass as I do on my Stingrays because it's well set up. Because it's tweaked to perform it's best, it doesn't hinder me from performing my best on it. I'd never argue against that. It's real easy to get caught up in the gear end of things rather than focus on one bass and our own playing, trust me I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BoundandBlocked Posted December 3, 2007 Members Share Posted December 3, 2007 Yep. If you are shooting for a thumpy P bass tone, a J bass with the neck pickup soloed and tone rolled off is a decent approximation (sort of), but if you like the grindy open P bass tone the bridge pickup on a Ric is a great sub.I need to show up to one of these GTG to learn a thing or two. I've always gassed for a 4003, but thought of them as a one trick pony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members T. Alan Smith Posted December 3, 2007 Members Share Posted December 3, 2007 I'd never argue against that. It's real easy to get caught up in the gear end of things rather than focus on one bass and our own playing, trust me I know. Yeah, but because we understand the distinction......where's my wallet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted December 3, 2007 Moderators Share Posted December 3, 2007 I need to show up to one of these GTG to learn a thing or two. I've always gassed for a 4003, but thought of them as a one trick pony. With as many musicians and instruments and amps in one place, there is no better place to pick up a trick or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members L-1329 Posted December 3, 2007 Members Share Posted December 3, 2007 With as many musicians and instruments and amps in one place, there is no better place to pick up a trick or two and a real bad case of g.a.s. No kidding! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bnyswonger Posted December 3, 2007 Members Share Posted December 3, 2007 Everything in the signal path plays a role to some extent. The proportions of causation change based on the relative strength of the components. A player with an extremely strong voice might have the greatest to do with the sound at the end of the chain. Conversely a chameleon of a player may disappear into the instrument. Strongly voiced pickups, such as the split coil P pickups, will have more to do with the sound at the end of the chain than a more broad spectrum output pickup. Overlooking any component is a disservice as it giving too much weight to an undeserving component.You oughtta get paid for thoughtful answers like this. It just occurred to me that another way to approach this whole issue is from the reverse angle...for example, I feel I can get about any instrument to produce something musical, but the factors that experience has taught me make it more difficult are 1) type of pickup - there are about four I like and a whole lot of others I don't care for so much2) setup - type and height of strings3) active vs passive - I don't care for the sound and dynamics of active PUsBeyond that, things like neck-through or bolt-on; body wood, fingerboard material etc don't play any huge factor for me. That's why I don't really give a hoot about boutique basses - they go to great pains and expense to attend to details that aren't at all important to me. I can appreciate them for what they are, but I look at any instrument as a tool, and not really much else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members L-1329 Posted December 3, 2007 Members Share Posted December 3, 2007 but I look at any instrument as a tool, and not really much else.Everyone's different but I'd really hate to see them really as nothing but a simple tool. I love the craftsmanship, and the art in the designs of great basses, and with most things as well. Even the planes I fly, which are nothing but the tools of my trade, are so much more than that. Some are truly beautiful in every sense, as well as do the job of a simple tool. Not seeing the art of the instrument itself to me, really misses something very cool. But that's me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted December 3, 2007 Moderators Share Posted December 3, 2007 You oughtta get paid for thoughtful answers like this. You must not have gotten the memo, I'm an uninformed troll. Sorry to disappoint you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chunky-b Posted December 3, 2007 Members Share Posted December 3, 2007 You must not have gotten the memo, I'm an uninformed troll. Sorry to disappoint you. We should start a thread of all of the mis-informed accusations made against you...Potential thief and Liar...Uninformed troll......probably don't even own a bass......probably don't have any equipment worth over $2000...(just to paraphrase a few I remember off the top of my head...):poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BoundandBlocked Posted December 3, 2007 Members Share Posted December 3, 2007 You must not have gotten the memo, I'm an uninformed troll. Sorry to disappoint you. Don't forget that you're a mediocre player at best that has probably never spent more the $2k on any piece of gear.:poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted December 3, 2007 Moderators Share Posted December 3, 2007 We should start a thread of all of the mis-informed accusations made against you... Potential thief and Liar... Uninformed troll... ...probably don't even own a bass... ...probably don't have any equipment worth over $2000... (just to paraphrase a few I remember off the top of my head...):poke: My favorite was from fuzzball a few months back when he was teaching me a lesson in intellectual property law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FreestyleIntruder Posted December 3, 2007 Members Share Posted December 3, 2007 We should start a thread of all of the mis-informed accusations made against you...Potential thief and Liar...Uninformed troll......probably don't even own a bass......probably don't have any equipment worth over $2000...(just to paraphrase a few I remember off the top of my head...):poke: I heard he can't work a yo-yo, and struggles to eat anything spicier than a mild chicken Korma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members T. Alan Smith Posted December 3, 2007 Members Share Posted December 3, 2007 I heard he can't work a yo-yo, and struggles to eat anything spicier than a mild chicken Korma. ...can get on here and post, but can't get around MySpace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bnyswonger Posted December 3, 2007 Members Share Posted December 3, 2007 Everyone's different but I'd really hate to see them really as nothing but a simple tool. I love the craftsmanship, and the art in the designs of great basses, and with most things as well. Even the planes I fly, which are nothing but the tools of my trade, are so much more than that. Some are truly beautiful in every sense, as well as do the job of a simple tool. Not seeing the art of the instrument itself to me, really misses something very cool. But that's me. Yeah, I probably overstated that...I certainly do get into the aesthetics of certain instruments. It's just probably a bit of sour grapes on my part that as I can't afford to really delve into that world, I don't let myself get too enamored with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members T. Alan Smith Posted December 3, 2007 Members Share Posted December 3, 2007 Yeah, I probably overstated that...I certainly do get into the aesthetics of certain instruments. It's just probably a bit of sour grapes on my part that as I can't afford to really delve into that world, I don't let myself get too enamored with it. Performance wise, your not missing a whole heck of a lot. Remember the whole diminishing returns thing. There was a fretless P/J Jap Fender like yours there that played and sounded great. I was just as content on my fretless 'Ray 4 as I was on anything there...yes, even the Skjold & Rob Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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