Members Thunderbroom Posted April 24, 2008 Author Members Share Posted April 24, 2008 I'm assuming this is a bit more practical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Renfield Posted April 24, 2008 Members Share Posted April 24, 2008 One more thing...With my stage plot, as a tech you'd know pretty much what we're wanting, right? Yeah, it all makes sense. It's more commonly done like the image I linked, shows the basic mic type and numbers them where they go, rather than summarizes in front of each area. Not that you are wrong in doing so, but it's more common to label each drum with a number and provide a legend, but again, it's just what I am used to, doesn't make you wrong. The B&W version is MUCH better in many ways. It's easier to read everything, making it more obvious. If 2 bands came through my stage, one with each version, I can see being annoyed at the coloured one, I'd probably dismiss you (mentally that is) as amateurs who are trying to hard. The B&W one I doubt I'd even blink at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted April 24, 2008 Author Members Share Posted April 24, 2008 Yeah, it all makes sense. It's more commonly done like the image I linked, shows the basic mic type and numbers them where they go, rather than summarizes in front of each area. Not that you are wrong in doing so, but it's more common to label each drum with a number and provide a legend, but again, it's just what I am used to, doesn't make you wrong. I may go back and mod it like you're talking about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bnyswonger Posted April 24, 2008 Members Share Posted April 24, 2008 I agree about the B&W version - if your running around the stage, that's more readable. The color one looks nice on the computer, though. Hell, you could email both and let them pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Renfield Posted April 24, 2008 Members Share Posted April 24, 2008 I agree about the B&W version - if your running around the stage, that's more readable. The color one looks nice on the computer, though. Hell, you could email both and let them pick. How many people/clubs have colour printers though? Needs to be B&W if it's going to be useable. Nice touch with the watermarked logo however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted April 24, 2008 Author Members Share Posted April 24, 2008 Suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Renfield Posted April 24, 2008 Members Share Posted April 24, 2008 Suggestions? I could nick pick the most minor of details if I tried too, but damn, pretty sweet if I may say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted April 24, 2008 Author Members Share Posted April 24, 2008 I could nick pick the most minor of details if I tried too, but damn, pretty sweet if I may say. Pick away!I'm a novice at this. I want it to say what I want it to say and be very user-friendly for the sound engineer that has to deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Renfield Posted April 24, 2008 Members Share Posted April 24, 2008 Pick away! I'm a novice at this. I want it to say what I want it to say and be very user-friendly for the sound engineer that has to deal with it. You are well on your way my friend. Step one... print it and look at it. Then think how bad it would look coming out of the worst printer or fax. Pay special attention to any black inks on grey backgrounds. I think you did a good job on colour choice on the right, it looks crisp enough, but I'd do a low fi print job all the same to be sure. Don't be afraid to label the area where each guy/girl will live. I think you had "Lead Guitarist" and such written out before, bring that back in. Symbols and a legend are great to keep it clean and you did that, but it shouldn't be SO clean that you need the legend just to know who's on first, if you will. Adding the persons first name below each title is not a bad idea either. Think of it this way... I don't know you, and you are coming on to my stage. You are telling me that you want an AC drop for Charlie here and a Stereo passive DI for Bob there and I first have to look at the legend to figure out where the lead guitarist is, then try to remember that Charlie wasn't the lead player, he was the drummer, who was the bassist again? To say nothing about once you are onstage and he's back at FOH, still with the sheet in his hands as he sets up his channel strip. He can talkback to Joanne because he knows she is the one on the right. Do any of you require pedal power upstage? If it's not on the sheet, you don't get it, period. How many AC outlets does each guy want? You named the voltage, great, but how many outlets will you need? It's overkill yes, but try to think of it from the perspective of a dummy. It's not that they are dumb, but they don't know you and the mentality YOU want to have is that every question is already answered before you even put your codpiece on that morning. Never underestimate the FOH's ability to veto you ever coming back again. I doubt you will have an issue, you are taking a very professional approach to it all, and good on you for it. You are officially in the next level. Welcome aboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catphish Posted April 24, 2008 Members Share Posted April 24, 2008 Suggestions? Looks top notch to me.It's a way better job than I did on ours. Nice work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gspointer Posted April 24, 2008 Members Share Posted April 24, 2008 Looks good to me, but, He was pretty specific about xlrs for the wireless mics, you might need adaptors or DI's for the keyboards also. And it is just my personal preference, but I like to start with the kick on 1 and run the drums first, I assign them to aa sub-group and can adjust their levels with the single fader, I would do keys next, get them on their own sub-group, then bass, rythym, lead, back-up vocals and lead. This makes it easier for me to mix as it gets the levels I adjust most close together and closest to the mains levels. Just wondering what everyone else likes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted April 24, 2008 Author Members Share Posted April 24, 2008 Thanks for the suggestions. Honestly, I (we) don't have a preference how the engineer sets up and runs his board. I guess I didn't realize that the numbers I've used were telling him that he has to use that particular input on his board. As far as subgroups on a board go, is each board different or are they all standard as far as assigning subgroups. I thought that a stage plot is something that is generic enough that we can give any sound engineer prior to a gig, and he'll know how to set us up. If it's supposed to be based on the gear the venue has, this could get out of hand. Fortunately, we've only had to deal with this once prior. For all of our other gigs, including a multitude of outdoor fests, we just chatted with the sound engineer during load-in. It's always worked out fine for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Renfield Posted April 24, 2008 Members Share Posted April 24, 2008 Looks good to me, but, He was pretty specific about xlrs for the wireless mics, you might need adaptors or DI's for the keyboards also. And it is just my personal preference, but I like to start with the kick on 1 and run the drums first, I assign them to aa sub-group and can adjust their levels with the single fader, I would do keys next, get them on their own sub-group, then bass, rythym, lead, back-up vocals and lead. This makes it easier for me to mix as it gets the levels I adjust most close together and closest to the mains levels. Just wondering what everyone else likes? The adapters and such are just something you bring, it shouldn't be on the stage plot. DO find out about the output impedance though, you might need DI's for them, I've seen it before.Good suggestion about the numbering. I keep forgetting about mentioning that. I tend to stick bass and guitar after drums in that order, followed by keys, Vox, bg vox, etc, but that's just me. This is a guideline to what you need, and every FOH will have his own preference to the order. But if you label things in a logical order to begin with (something none of our examples did ) then he has that much less work to do. If your #1 is what he would want channel 1 to be, he can use the sheet back at FOH without needing to scribble on it that your #14 is actually his #8. Nothing wrong with keeping the DI separate, seen it done both ways, but for myself personally when I draw them up, I label the plot just like I would mix it, so #8, the Bass DI is actually in the middle of mics, so make sure to put the words DI somewhere very visible on the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted April 24, 2008 Members Share Posted April 24, 2008 Somewhat OT, but your band layout surprised me a bit: I would think that putting the bass next to the drums, and swapping the rythym and lead guitar locations would work better, band-wise... - georgestrings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted April 24, 2008 Author Members Share Posted April 24, 2008 Somewhat OT, but your band layout surprised me a bit: I would think that putting the bass next to the drums, and swapping the rythym and lead guitar locations would work better, band-wise... - georgestrings I used to be on the side with the keyboardist but volunteered to move to the side with the lead guitarist a while back when we had our old lead player. He consistently played too loudly. I was willing to tell him to turn down where others would not. Now that he's gone, I've just stayed there. I rarely stand in front of my amp at gigs anyway and spend most of my time in front of the drums and between to the two lead vocalists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted April 24, 2008 Author Members Share Posted April 24, 2008 DO find out about the output impedance though, you might need DI's for them, I've seen it before. What exactly am I looking for and what am I comparing it to? We've used these wireless mics on countless gigs over the last year and have never had to run them through a DI. What output impedance dictates the use of a DI? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mlwarriner Posted April 24, 2008 Members Share Posted April 24, 2008 Our wireless units have 1/4" outs (mine and yours). If the units he's talking about are like that, he wants you to have adaptors.Input list with inserts - All of the lines/mics/direct feeds to the board. Inserts are effects you want added at the board.I don't know about LDI've always had to provide my own mic stands. actually, if you're running the senn ew172 series, they're got a fairly decent DI built in. i've used the DI from my wireless a few times for gigging. but now that i've got a board full of FX, i'd rather they use the one on my amp instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Roguetitan Posted April 24, 2008 Members Share Posted April 24, 2008 What exactly am I looking for and what am I comparing it to? We've used these wireless mics on countless gigs over the last year and have never had to run them through a DI. What output impedance dictates the use of a DI? you don't need to run them through a di all you need is some Female TRS to male XLR adapters. they cost about 6 bucks a piece. DI boxes are for line level not balanced signal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted April 24, 2008 CMS Author Share Posted April 24, 2008 Put your name and phone number on everything!!!!!! Eliminates the, "I couldn't find your number, so I didn't call" excuse and just generally makes life easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted April 24, 2008 Author Members Share Posted April 24, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Renfield Posted April 24, 2008 Members Share Posted April 24, 2008 What exactly am I looking for and what am I comparing it to? We've used these wireless mics on countless gigs over the last year and have never had to run them through a DI. What output impedance dictates the use of a DI? You answered the question right there... prior use has told you that they are fine going straight in. I should have expected that being a Shure product, they know what they are doing. It was on cheaper units that I saw it, made no sense at all, and it's not like it's a cost saving matter. Internally it's just a few different values of components. Get some adapters as someone else named and you are fine. Keep them in the base/bag with the wireless so they are always in hand down the road should you ever be stuck with a sound guy that doesn't have 1/4's on his snake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted April 24, 2008 Members Share Posted April 24, 2008 I used to be on the side with the keyboardist but volunteered to move to the side with the lead guitarist a while back when we had our old lead player. He consistently played too loudly. I was willing to tell him to turn down where others would not. Now that he's gone, I've just stayed there. I rarely stand in front of my amp at gigs anyway and spend most of my time in front of the drums and between to the two lead vocalists. Personally, I always try to stay on the ride side of the drummer(which you likely are), because the snare in my ear is annoying to me - it's usually pretty sharp, and not in time with the bass as the kick is... It makes more sense for you to be next to the drummer, for "locking in" purposes - and also to be paired up with the rythym guitarist, instead of the lead - because after all, you're forming a significant part of the rythym section... Also, I think the guitar leads would get a bit better definition on one side of the stage by himself, rather than being right next to the bassist... All this is merely my opinion, and as long as your current setup is working for you, then it's all good... - georgestrings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Renfield Posted April 24, 2008 Members Share Posted April 24, 2008 Further nitpicking... I mean this as constructive criticism only to help make this more perfect.... Can you adjust the width of the legend to have a slightly smaller far right column? Monitor 5 is the only 2 line field, and there is plenty of room on the second line for one more word, so decrease the width of things so your legend can say Mic and DI instead of M and DI. Take all guess work out. (I work in graphic arts and do print lay outs, have an eye for these little things )And yes, put your phone number and primary contact name on it. Wouldn't hurt to have Name/Phone/Email/Website in the bottom corner somewhere, in case wandering eyes see it and want to know how to find you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted April 24, 2008 Author Members Share Posted April 24, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Renfield Posted April 24, 2008 Members Share Posted April 24, 2008 Next up.... your backstage rider. Don't forget the brown M&M's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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