Members Phantasm Posted July 9, 2008 Members Share Posted July 9, 2008 WARNING - A bit long, but I'd apprecate your thoughts if you can get through it. Okay, I've bought a lot of things over the internet in the past few years - over $10,000 according to PayPal. I've had a lot of good luck with buying things too and I've only had a few minor mishaps. Today I received a bass that cost around $1k. The seller's Talkbass ad said that the bass was "brand new, with the plastic and hang tags still on it." The ad also said that it would ship in a brand new hardshell case. I offer to pay the seller's asking price (about $100-$200 more than your average used one, but this bass was advertised as "BRAND NEW") if he's willing to ship the next day. He agrees. Once payment is tendered, the seller tells me the next day that he has to work all day and can't ship out until the 3rd day. Okay, I decide to be patient. The night before shipping, seller sends me a PM saying that the "brand new case" is "all F---ed up" and he has bought me a really nice gig bag instead. I tell him that's not what his ad said and he agrees to supply a brand new hardshell case. The bass finally arrives today and it's in good shape, but it's clearly not brand new. The pickguard is swirly, there's dust on the bridge, and the headstock has dings in the finish. The most annoying problem is that the shaft is bent on the pan knob, enough to make it rub in the knob cavity. I take pictures and contact seller asking for a partial refund due to the items listed. He tells me that the bass wasn't like that when he shipped it, he swears. He also goes on to say that he never said there weren't swirls on the pickguard. He has spent all of the money I paid him and is really sorry, but he can't do anything about it. I'd like to add that this is a VERY WELL KNOWN seller on TB. So if you were me, what would you do? Complain more? Give up and buy a blend pot and accept that I paid too much? _______ (Insert your suggestion here?) Thanks for reading if you got this far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Guttermouth Posted July 9, 2008 Members Share Posted July 9, 2008 HELL no. i'd give him the option of being outed on tb as a fraud or giving you a full or partial refund. period. brand new condition doesn't mean swirls on the guard,bent pots and dings in the finish. just be firm about it. i had an issue with a dude over there and letting the seller know that the next step is legal action and outing as a douchebag did the trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Limon Posted July 9, 2008 Members Share Posted July 9, 2008 I'd encourage you to explain that the 'too bad' option doesn't sit well with you. Discuss some options with him, one being a complete refund and return of bass as it was not in new condition, two being partial refund to cover the fact that the bass was not new condition so you can repair it, three being negative feedback. Guys on talkbass don't like neg feedback as it really effects their sales, especially if you explain how sneaky he appears to be. You really owe it to the other buyers on talkbass to speak up and that is what the neg feedback is for. I buy stuff there regularly and I always check their feedback. But give him some options don't back him into a corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members misterhinkydink Posted July 9, 2008 Members Share Posted July 9, 2008 Like everyone else said, get real tough real quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Captain Fathead Posted July 9, 2008 Members Share Posted July 9, 2008 Like everyone else said, get real tough real quick. Ayuh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members poomwah Posted July 9, 2008 Members Share Posted July 9, 2008 I'm in total agreement with the guys above, in addition, did you mentioned that you use paypal, did you use it for this particular transaction? If so, and make sure the guy knows this, you can file a dispute with paypal, they'll investigate and if they find in your favor, they'll take the money right out of his paypal account. If he doesn't have it in there, they'll suspend his paypal account until he pays it. I had to do that once with an ebay seller that sent the wrong thing and didnt care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassman1956 Posted July 9, 2008 Members Share Posted July 9, 2008 Bring it up on TB.If he won't cooperate, spill his screen name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted July 9, 2008 Members Share Posted July 9, 2008 Bring it up on TB.If he won't cooperate, spill his screen name. I think I'd give him one more chance to make things right, then try that approach... - georgestrings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Last in Line Posted July 9, 2008 Members Share Posted July 9, 2008 I'm in a similar situation. I sold a bass on e-bay, and a dude from Denmark bought it. I didn't have a case for it, so I completely wrapped it in bubble wrap, and filled the rest of the cardboard box I got for it with packing peanuts. The guy e-mails me when he gets it in saying that the instrument is missing paint and the fretboard is coming off. He sent pictures, and the freakin' thing looks like someone tried to to a stage guitar smash with it and didn't go all the way through with it. He wants me to help pay for the repairs (split the repair cost). That would be no problem if the stupid USPS would pay up the insurance that I put on it. They claim they wont pay insurance unless I bring them the item for inspection, which isn't very helpful, because the bass is in Denmark! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phantasm Posted July 9, 2008 Author Members Share Posted July 9, 2008 I'm in total agreement with the guys above, in addition, did you mentioned that you use paypal, did you use it for this particular transaction? If so, and make sure the guy knows this, you can file a dispute with paypal, they'll investigate and if they find in your favor, they'll take the money right out of his paypal account. Well, I bought the bass from someone on Talkbass. The bass is not as described in the ad, but it wasn't an auction site like Ebay. Can I file a dispute on a transaction like that? This seller is very well known and moves a lot of basses. Even if he's broke now, he's got a few up for sale currently. I want to give him another chance before trying a dispute or an appeal to the court of public opinion, just I'm not sure how to word my reply right now. I totally didn't expect this behavior and it's a first for me buying online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members illidian Posted July 9, 2008 Members Share Posted July 9, 2008 I'd give him the opportunity to make things right, but that doesn't slide. There are consequences for that kind of crap. Are the "new" tags still on the bass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members King Kashue Posted July 9, 2008 Members Share Posted July 9, 2008 Something like a knob getting bent could happen in transit... Marks on the pickguard and dents in the headstock? Unless he's going to say the UPS guy was playing it, that's not shipping damage. You don't need to use a auction site to be protected here. His ad made an objective claim that is clearly untrue. This isn't like calling something like "good condition" where everyone has their own definition, "brand new" either is or isn't. If you used paypal, there's ways to protect yourself with them. If you funded paypal with a credit card, your credit card company can help you out. But most of all, I agree with everyone else: Right now, make it very clear that this is not an acceptable situation and he needs to make it right. Him having spent the money is not your problem. Him claiming it was in perfect condition is not your problem (he's the shipper). If he doesn't respond and you have to play hardball, make it clear that if he doesn't make things right, you're going to be very public with the matter. You won't say anything innaccurate, but you'll be sure to detail everything: the delay in shipping, the case snafu, the promise of a brand new instrument and the subsequent condition. Also make it clear you won't be accusing him of anything, but that you'll merely state the facts and let people come to their own conclusions. At the very least, people will want to know how he reacted as a seller in not making things right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phantasm Posted July 9, 2008 Author Members Share Posted July 9, 2008 Okay, I just sent another message to the seller asking to work it out privately. He sells lots of items and he has some up for sale now, so even if he's not solvent now he should have cash flow soon. Thanks everyone for the advice, I will keep you posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members poomwah Posted July 9, 2008 Members Share Posted July 9, 2008 how about posting this same question on TB? maybe that will get his attention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phantasm Posted July 9, 2008 Author Members Share Posted July 9, 2008 Well, I want to give him a chance to make it right first. I want to be fair, honest and up front about everything vs. just spending a lot of energy arguing in the court of public opinion. I do really like the bass, all things considered. It sucks that I can't post NEW BASS DAY!!! and tell everyone how great it sounds because it really does. It's a very nice instrument and it sounds fantastic, just it's not what was advertised - it's not BRAND NEW. I paid top dollar used for it and I expect what was advertised. Plus, I bought TWO basses this week. I'm not sure how that happened... but it did! I'm hoping the second one has far fewer headaches than this one has so far... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gspointer Posted July 9, 2008 Members Share Posted July 9, 2008 big +1 to KK's post. Copy his ad now, capture his e-mail about shipping delay and the hard case. Demand at least 200.00 within a week, if he refuses make it clear that you will go very public with a few facts.1. the copied ad with full description.2. New with plastic, Include detailed pictures of the swirls.3. Agreement to pay full asking price if it includes next day shipping, scan shipping docs showing 3 day delay.4.If you still have the shipping materials, and they are not damaged near the dings on the head-stock, and the bent pots. a. detailed pics of shipping container near the dinged headstock area, with a clear picture showing the dings. b. detailed picture of shipping container near bent shaft, with a detailed picture of the bent shaft. If he has several items for sale, tell him you will go very public with all of the above before he can sell anything, and make every effort to alert potential buyers of the conditions of your sale. Worst comes to worst give him 5 days and file a dispute with your CC, and post all the above anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted July 9, 2008 Moderators Share Posted July 9, 2008 The guy is a liar and a fraud. Either he makes things right or you make sure everyone knows of his behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members willsellout Posted July 9, 2008 Members Share Posted July 9, 2008 If you put "Brand New" or "Like new", it means two things: The bass is spotless, and everything works perfectly. Period. If it has a single ding or flaw, it is used. I wouldn't give him a chance...people know when they are selling bull{censored}, it just so happens you bought it. I'd let him know that you want the two bills back and once he complies leave a neutral or negative feedback. Ive had this {censored} happen before, most recently on the Mesa BB750. Don't believe people when they tell you "it wasn't like that before I shipped". Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phantasm Posted July 9, 2008 Author Members Share Posted July 9, 2008 Yeah, I'm not buying the "it wasn't like that before I shipped" excuse. The carton is undamaged so that means to Fedex they will say "the shipper didn't pack it well enough and it's his problem and his expense to make it right." The seller hasn't responded yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members willsellout Posted July 9, 2008 Members Share Posted July 9, 2008 Yeah, I'm not buying the "it wasn't like that before I shipped" excuse. The carton is undamaged so that means to Fedex they will say "the shipper didn't pack it well enough and it's his problem and his expense to make it right."The seller hasn't responded yet. Ahh...I see who it is. There is no question as to his assertion that the bass is brand new. If it arrived other than brand new you have a right to get some cash back. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 82Daion Posted July 9, 2008 Members Share Posted July 9, 2008 You bought a Bongo, didn't you? The case is notorious for bending the pan knob and rubbing finish off the headstock because it's not properly sized, allowing the bass to move around and bump into the hard padding in the case. If the bass was mishandled in shipping, then I would definitely expect this to happen. Happened to mine, right out of the box new from the factory. That doesn't excuse selling it as brand new, but it's just an observation of mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phantasm Posted July 9, 2008 Author Members Share Posted July 9, 2008 Ahh...I see who it is. There is no question as to his assertion that the bass is brand new. If it arrived other than brand new you have a right to get some cash back. After a few messages back and forth this morning we agreed on a $100 refund via USPS Money Order. He said he'll send it out this morning, I'll update the thread when it arrives. That would make the purchase price of the bass $950 shipped and that's about fair. There is one like it but a different color on Talkbass for $825 shipped right now, and that's a steal of a deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phantasm Posted July 9, 2008 Author Members Share Posted July 9, 2008 You bought a Bongo, didn't you? The case is notorious for bending the pan knob and rubbing finish off the headstock because it's not properly sized, allowing the bass to move around and bump into the hard padding in the case. If the bass was mishandled in shipping, then I would definitely expect this to happen. Happened to mine, right out of the box new from the factory. That doesn't excuse selling it as brand new, but it's just an observation of mine. Were you able to get a replacement pot, or did you just loosen the knob and raise it a little so it wouldn't rub (which is what I did last night?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hawkeye Posted July 9, 2008 Members Share Posted July 9, 2008 TB also has a feedback system. It's been around for nearly 2 years IIRC. That's available to you. You can use it as you like. It doesn't have to be tied directly to some numbered transaction like Ebay. As long as you're a TB member, you can leave feedback about another member. It's amazing to me that there is such widespread usage of terms such as "absolutely mint", "brand-new", "NIB", "10/10" etc. for items which are none of the above and clearly used. I always try and point out any and all issues with anything that I sell. Who needs the hassle afterward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Renfield Posted July 9, 2008 Members Share Posted July 9, 2008 TB also has a feedback system. It's been around for nearly 2 years IIRC. That's available to you. You can use it as you like. It doesn't have to be tied directly to some numbered transaction like Ebay. As long as you're a TB member, you can leave feedback about another member.It's amazing to me that there is such widespread usage of terms such as "absolutely mint", "brand-new", "NIB", "10/10" etc. for items which are none of the above and clearly used.I always try and point out any and all issues with anything that I sell. Who needs the hassle afterward? It would be really great if HC had the feedback system in place. I used to have a list of people I had good dealings with in my sig, but I wanted the space back since they impose character limitations now. I don't remember the names of all the people I have dealt with now to cite references. Glad to hear it all worked out. Why pay via USPA money order though? Is that how you paid in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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